Author Topic: CMOS Temperature  (Read 19916 times)

mSpider

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CMOS Temperature
« on: July 20, 2012, 09:18:54 AM »
Just got a 60d off of  craigslist, and I loaded ML 2.3 RC2 July 15...
Now I have a 550d AND a 60d to test...
I am wondering why the 60d displays temperature in raw units while my 550d displays temperature in degrees Celsius...

a1ex

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Re: CMOS Temperature
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 09:21:08 AM »
http://groups.google.com/group/ml-devel/browse_thread/thread/725ae6f424dd2917

The guy who had the infrared thermometer had a 550D, not a 60D. Raw units are not the same among cameras.

If anyone can do these measurements for any other camera (currently having data only for 550D), it would be great:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar2tmqEUFi2vdExFZTZfcE04X3VEWTZhOHd4enVwU0E#gid=0

ilguercio

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Re: CMOS Temperature
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 01:05:30 PM »
Are those Ebay infrared thermometers reliable?
Canon EOS 6D, 60D, 50D.
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1%

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Re: CMOS Temperature
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 04:30:46 PM »
I have an IR thermometer on my RMS multimeter but I don't know how accurate it is or how I would get it at the sensor. I'll check the google group.

bouncyball

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normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2013, 04:11:25 PM »
Hey guys just wanna know if the temperature value is correctly transformed to celsius from rawtemp for 5D3 nightly builds?

bouncyball

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Re: 5D3 ML Temp Accuracy
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 04:52:37 PM »
Well... my 5D3 shows temperature above 60 degree celsius after 7-8 min continuous menu browsing while in liveview. Is it normal? Anyone?

Monsanto

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Re: 5D3 ML Temp Accuracy
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 05:03:54 PM »
The camera will display a miniature red thermometer when its time to shut off or it will automatically shut itself off before it overheats. Take the CF card out let it cool and open the CF door let the heat out. U should be fine Ive overheated mine many times. ML heat figures are usually correct but readings can be thrown off on ocassions.

bouncyball

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Re: 5D3 ML Temp Accuracy
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 05:46:53 PM »
Thanx for reply. Can you remember the temp value showing by ML before this happened to your camera?

a1ex

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Re: 5D3 ML Temp Accuracy
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 05:58:51 PM »
+1, I also want to know the temperature at which it overheats, in order to show the indicator in red.

sammyb

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Average Temp Of 5D MK3?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2013, 11:40:46 AM »
What temperature should the 5D Mk 3 average at in normal working conditions (not to cold, not to hot). I'm running the latest nightly build for my 5D and I'm easily reaching temperatures of 60ºC.

Liveview is set to on and only has a crop guide overlay, I'm shooting RAW at 1920x1080 24fps and I'm using a genuine Canon battery.

RenatoPhoto

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Re: Average Temp Of 5D MK3?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2013, 01:46:17 PM »
I tested my 5D3 from cold start:

LiveView from 15C to 66C in 30 minutes
Stabilized at 66C

I covered the camera with cloth in 6 minutes in climbed to 73C
Stabilized at 70C in 11 minutes

I started RAW REC 1920x1080 at 30 fps
Temperature increased to 72 C in 5 minutes
Stabilized at 72C

I started Playback in 8 minutes drop to 58C

I started LV again in 6 minutes stabilized at 67C

It would seem that normal operating temperatures 50 to 73C

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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Average Temp Of 5D MK3?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2013, 01:59:59 PM »
And also noticed that the temp can sometimes jump 3C say from 70 to 73C so the temp monitoring system may not be 100% accurate.
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sammyb

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Re: Average Temp Of 5D MK3?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2013, 02:22:09 PM »
Thank's for being so in-depth Renato! Yea I didn't know how accurate it was either but I didn't think having my camera running at it's maximum temperature continuously was very good for it.

Has you're camera overheated during long recording sessions? Like even run n gun stuff?

RenatoPhoto

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Re: Average Temp Of 5D MK3?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2013, 02:29:47 PM »
Never so I dont know what is the Canon shut off temp.  I usually only record short stuff.
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sammyb

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Re: Average Temp Of 5D MK3?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2013, 02:50:28 PM »
Never so I dont know what is the Canon shut off temp.  I usually only record short stuff.

Sweet, as long as you haven't had any issues I feel more comfortable now. I'm travelling around Bali and I don't want a camera that's going to be overheating on me all the time, hopefully it doesn't let me down.

Tikigod19

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Re: Average Temp Of 5D MK3?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 01:17:07 PM »
I was concerned about this too ,mine shot from 33 to 56 degrees in 15 mins and I switched it off thinking was something wrong. Is there an official word on what is an acceptable temp and also will it just auto shut off when it gets too hot or are we at risk of damaging our cameras?

Frank209

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normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2013, 02:29:46 PM »
I've been getting about 70 degrees celcius (158 F) with 1920*1080 on a 5d3

how about you?

jose_ugs

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2013, 03:43:09 PM »
That sounds a bit scary... The maximum i'm getting is about 50something for the same res/cam

Markus

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2013, 03:47:17 PM »
For long recordings my camera also goes up to 70C. MkIII

arrinkiiii

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2013, 04:44:34 PM »

My camera go's to 52 and then it auto-disconnect the camera.

7D

Letni

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2013, 10:38:30 PM »
Oh, well, I would also say that the temperature has something to do with the ambient temperature.

If one is of course filming in the summer at 35 ° determines warmer than in spring at 12 °.

Or?  ;)

Frank209

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2013, 10:41:36 PM »
shooting indoors at 22 till 25 celcius (that was a private pool)
outdoors at 8 celcius,   Both about the same.  Camera between 60/70 degrees celcius.

Still curious about other camera's temperature.
Just wondering because it's bright red all the time. :)


a1ex

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2013, 10:47:27 PM »
Here's what you guys should find out:

- does the displayed temperature match the ambient temperature when you start the camera after a long period of inactivity? (e.g. in the morning)
- how does the displayed temperature relate to the physical sensor temperature? (check with an infrared thermometer)
- at what displayed temperature does Canon temperature warning appear on the screen?

escho

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2013, 11:57:10 PM »
Did a short test on my 600D, booting without ML:

video duration: 22min
temp at 22min, read with exiftool: 52°C
instantly booting ML, temp shown by ML about 75°C

I will do some further test next week, but for me this looks like a math-problem

Edgar
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600D, 6D, openSUSE Tumbleweed

Frank209

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2013, 11:31:34 AM »
This is what canon has to say about this.

http://www.canon.co.uk/Support/Consumer_Products/products/cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_5D_Mark_III.aspx?faqtcmuri=tcm:14-731490&page=1&type=faq

Haven't found out the temperature when the overheating icon will appear, never saw that thing in the first place to be honest.

Just tested the camera in the morning.

Startup with magic lantern, no recording, no raw:
Global draw on, zebra's on, histogram on RGB.
5d3 was on a rig, so no heat from my hands/body
shot with external monitor.
Room temperature was 20 °C
All temperatures came from magic lantern. i don't have an infrared meter.

Startup:    19 °C   (a1ex, difference of 1 °C with room temperature)
after 20 seconds  24 °C
1 minute:  29 °C
2 minutes: 33 °C
4 minutes: 36 °C
8 minutes: 47 °C
And it kept there for 30 minutes, quit test after that.

let it cool down a bit and went recording continuous

Recording H264 codec:
startup    36 °C
1 minute  43 °C
2 minutes 47 °C
4 minutes 49 °C
8 minutes 49 °C
quite stable

Raw 1080X1920 (single take)
startup: 34 °C
right after i put on raw in the menu: 42°C
10 seconds 44 °C
20 seconds 47 °C
30 seconds 47 °C
40 seconds 47 °C
1 minute: 47 °C
2 minutes: 48 °C
3 minutes: 55 °C (orange)
4 minutes: 55 °C
5 minutes: 58 °C
6 minutes: 58 °C
6.30 min : 60 °C (red)
7 minutes: 62 °C
8 minutes 60 °C
9 minutes 59 °C
10 minutes: 59 °C
It kept stable from 6.30 minutes, 60/59 constant.

checked if there was a difference in heat with higlights or darks but no difference.  (this included zebra striping galore)

Raw without monitor:

startup: 33 °C
right after i put on raw in the menu: 33°C
10 seconds 40 °C
20 seconds 40 °C
30 seconds 40 °C
40 seconds 40 °C
1 minute: 43 °C
2 minutes: 45 °C
3 minutes: 48 °C
3.30 min : 54 °C   (orange, went straight up from 48 to 54)
4 minutes: 54 °C
5 minutes: 56 °C
6 minutes: 56 °C
7 minutes: 59 °C
8 minutes 62 °C  (red)
9 minutes 69 °C
10 minutes 70 °C
kept stable 70 °C after that.

After this i did another test with the monitor again, but that gave quite similar results as the earlier test.

tried putting in the monitor after various minutes shooting without, cooled down a bit (5 °C)
tried all tests again with alot of different shots (starting, stopping) but didn't really affect the heat.

it seems that the monitor "cools" it for about 8/10 °C


RenatoPhoto

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Re: Average Temp Of 5D MK3?
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2013, 02:59:40 PM »
For 5D3
Confirm that room temperature and LV readout is within 2 C
No IR measurements.
For my camera normal operating temps 50 to 73 C


I tested my 5D3 from cold start:

LiveView from 15C to 66C in 30 minutes
Stabilized at 66C

I covered the camera with cloth in 6 minutes in climbed to 73C
Stabilized at 70C in 11 minutes

I started RAW REC 1920x1080 at 30 fps
Temperature increased to 72 C in 5 minutes
Stabilized at 72C

I started Playback in 8 minutes drop to 58C

I started LV again in 6 minutes stabilized at 67C

It would seem that normal operating temperatures 50 to 73C
http://www.pululahuahostal.com  |  EF 300 f/4, EF 100-400 L, EF 180 L, EF-S 10-22, Samyang 14mm, Sigma 28mm EX DG, Sigma 8mm 1:3.5 EX DG, EF 50mm 1:1.8 II, EF 1.4X II, Kenko C-AF 2X

escho

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2013, 09:37:53 PM »
I  don´t know, how many sensors for measuring temperature are in an EOS-body. So I don´t know, whether the temp, shown in the exifs is from the same sensor than the temp, ML measures via efic_temp.

If i compare both, efic_temp and exif-temp, it is not the simple polynomial relationship between both, I thougt before (celsius = efic_temp - 128). This simple relation is true in a small temperaturerange from let´s say 25 to 35°C exif-temp. But with highter temp, efic_temp grows much more than the exif-temp. This difference can approximately be described with a linear funktion f(x).

I did some tests with my 600D and plotted the values with gnuplot to see, what happens. I will try to work out this function (must search first, how to do this).

What does that mean? That means, the high temperatures, shown with ML, are not correct. They are lower. Exemple: ML-temp: 83°C --> exif-temp 61°C!

So, all the hope of some photografs, they can prepare fried eggs on their camera-body, has gone. They have to buy a frying pan  ;)

Edgar
https://sternenkarten.com/
600D, 6D, openSUSE Tumbleweed

Frank209

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2013, 12:03:04 AM »
aaaw shoot. And i just wanted to bake lunch on that thing....

escho

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2013, 11:07:46 PM »
The following function fits best to my 600D-values:

Code: [Select]
exif-temperature = 63/100 ML-temperature +8
This is the diagramm:


600D von seescho auf Flickr

I will do some more test to confirm this .

Edgar
https://sternenkarten.com/
600D, 6D, openSUSE Tumbleweed

a1ex

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Re: normal raw shooting temperature
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2013, 08:24:09 PM »
If you look at the exif raw value (exiftool -verbose), the temperature is indeed exif_raw - 128. But from this data set, it looks like either the exif temperature comes from a different sensor, or maybe the property is not updated fast enough.

Here's a previous attempt at measuring the sensor temperature: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/ml-devel/clrm9CTdKRc/discussion


escho

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Re: CMOS Temperature
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2013, 12:15:11 PM »
Hi Alex

Yes, I know that exiftool uses x-128 to convert to °C. For a better understanding, what´s up, here how I did this test:

1. Changed ML code to make sure, x-128 is really used in ML (displayed raw efic_temp instead of °F in debug-menue).
1.1 Yes, it is used to convert to °C, no hidden bug.
2. Started mov-recording monitoring the temps in debug menue
2.1 recording duration over all (2 movs): 41 min.
2.2 Taking CR2-pics from time to time and writing down displayed temperature
2.3 extended exif-temperature from these pics (exiftool -CameraTemperature *.CR2)

My observation:

1. I did not succed in overheating my 600D (no canon-warning)
1.1 I read in a forum, that it´s very hard to overheat 600D. 7D is much easier to overheat, they said (I don´t know anymore, which forum it was)
2. the relationship between exif-temp and ML-shown-temp seems to be constant for my 600D
2.1 I guess, propery is updated fast enough
    Temps after 33min: ML-temp: 81°C - exif-temp: 59°C
    Temps after 41min: ML-temp: 83°C - exif-temp: 61°C
    8 minutes should bo long enough for updating some property.
   
What do I think:

1. Even if there are 2 sensors, one for exif and one for efic_temp, the relationship between these two temps seems to be constant (on my 600D, using the formula, I introduced above). I think, this reastionship can be used, to show more realistic temps in ML.
2. Measuring temps in the camera body with an infrared thermometer (thanks for the link) makes not more sense,than using exif-temperature, because you don´t know, where the temp-sensor is located.

What is not clear to me:

I did not succeed in overheating my camera. So I cannot say, at what point ML should warn. The warning-temps (50°C and 60°C) now used by ML are good, if they use exif-temp, generated with a formula and not efic_temp-128.

What´s to do:

Measurements from other cameras would be fine, to find out the point of canon temperature warning and to see, if my formula only is valid for 600D or for other cams too,

Edgar
https://sternenkarten.com/
600D, 6D, openSUSE Tumbleweed

g3gg0

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Re: CMOS Temperature
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2013, 02:15:00 PM »
took into consideration that the CMOS temperature and the EFIC (Flash IC) might be different because they are measured on different devices?
(my theory)
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escho

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Re: CMOS Temperature
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2013, 04:46:41 PM »
Yes, it looks like there are more temperature-sensors.

efic_temp used in ML is not the same than the temp shown with exiftool. So it is not correct, I guess, to use "efic_temp -128", which comes from exiftool-code and was introduced by me some months before. I did not test this in a wider temperature-range, so it was my fault, to suggest this x-128.

Now there are three possibilities, I think:

1. Finding out the property, which contains the temp-value which goes into the exifs. That would be the cleanest way, I guess.
2. Measuring temp with an infreared termometer, but you have to know, where this temp-sensor is located and not so much people have such a thermometer
3.Taking the relationship between efic_temp and exif-temp, which would be easy by an math-funktion but would need tests on the other cameras, to find out the function for each camera.

I would prefer way 3 for the moment (with the function for 600D, if no tests for other cameras are introduced) until way 1 is possible.

Edgar
https://sternenkarten.com/
600D, 6D, openSUSE Tumbleweed