Author Topic: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos  (Read 56276 times)

kfprod

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REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« on: May 25, 2014, 03:11:18 AM »
Hi,

The combination of

1. Mirrored external monitoring
2. Playback on set (without having to remove the card)
3. ProRes backups on an SSD (with the RAW files on the card in the camera)


is very close. This is thanks to the possibility for the Atomos recorders to be triggered to record by a HDMI trigger from the camera called REC COMMAND.

This works fine with the camera set to record h264 video but unfortunately it does not work yet when you're recording RAW.

I will make a nice donation to the ML development team if this was to happen, I have a shoot next week that would benefit greatly from this.

Here's how the normal setup works
Thanks,
Karl
(Long time RAW shooter, here's a video I shot 2 weeks after the raw hack was first released
)

mixmastermike

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2014, 05:38:16 AM »
I also have an Atomos device, a ninja blade and the HDMI trigger works great with the camera on H264, but mlv_rec not so much.

it used to work on Raw_rec, but i haven't tried it on recent builds.

Would love to have this feature!

kfprod

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2014, 02:07:56 PM »
Thanks good to hear that others have the same need for this feature. If there are more of us please post here and maybe we could get some momentum going!

I just tried it with the RAW_REC module and it doesn't work. Do you mean there was a build with the newest Canon firmware 1.2.3 that worked with the HDMI Rec Command or was it on the previous firmware?

Steven

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2014, 06:50:01 PM »
I need it too!

mixmastermike

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2014, 07:09:47 PM »
I will have a look through old builds and try to find the exact build that worked with raw_rec. maybe that way we can help isolate the code that changed and maybe one of the programmers can take a look.

If anyone keeps old builds I would suggest you do the same.

This really would be a great feature, you even get proxies recorded with sound, that should mean pluraleyes can easily and quickly sync a high quality external audio recording from a Zoom or the like...

kfprod

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2014, 03:37:52 AM »
Thank you, much appreciated!

jasondhines

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 12:24:30 AM »
Would be awesome to record Prores files to an external recorder while recording raw video to the CF card when needed. Say when you're filming a wedding ceremony, you could record the entire event in Prores and record the key moments (vows, rings, kiss) in raw. Do you think this will eventually be possible? Can you start and stop the raw recording while still recording a clean HDMI feed?

Susteren

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2014, 11:13:51 AM »
Any progress with the rec command? :)

pobox

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2014, 12:22:49 PM »
Don't you have full HD output through the HDMI while recording raw with 5d3 1.2.3?

Susteren

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2014, 03:42:17 PM »
Don't you have full HD output through the HDMI while recording raw with 5d3 1.2.3?
Yes but no rec command, whitch would come in very handy with many clips.

Stedda

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2014, 03:50:13 PM »
Any progress with the rec command? :)

No Dev committed to doing this for you. Generally that means they have no interest/use in it for themselves and if you want it the burden is on the interested parties.
5D Mark III -- 7D   SOLD -- EOS M 22mm 18-55mm STM -- Fuji X-T1 18-55 F2.8-F4 & 35 F1.4
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Susteren

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 09:45:53 PM »

and if you want it the burden is on the interested parties.
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by this. :)

Midphase

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2014, 01:22:45 AM »
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by this. :)

What that means is that if you want it, you better roll up your sleeves and learn how to code.

kfprod

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2014, 05:58:09 PM »
Ok that's too bad thanks for the replies.

Again if there are more users ending up here please post in the thread and maybe we could still get some momentum going!

Not giving up... I have a background in coding and I would try to write the code myself for this specific thing but the notes about possibly breaking the camera while testing turned me off... Maybe I'll buy a 50d to start learning on that, can't really afford to break a 5d mk3.

There are no guns for hire amongst the incredible wonderful intelligent programmers?

a1ex

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2014, 06:14:25 PM »
What you need here is to reverse engineer how Canon sends the command to the recorder (or, if the recorder figures it out by itself, to know what it's looking for - display mode change, red dot or whatever).

Without reverse engineering, the easiest way would be to record RAW and H.264 simultaneously. This one fits into easy coding tasks.

kfprod

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2014, 06:31:49 PM »
Thank you for the reply and thank you for the amazing work you're doing.

Not sure I understand you correctly but if there's a way to write the RAW video file to the CF card and the H.264 file to the SD card (and also trigger the Atomos this way) that would be amazing.

That's a feature many people would have turned on anyway even without the Atomos connected as that H.264 file would playback in realtime on set, it would be a backup, it would have the sound in sync and it would be a perfect offline editing file that you'd just reconnect to the DNG files in DaVinci Resolve once you're done editing. This way you wouldn't have to transcode anything else than the shots you're actually using. That would save a lot of time in post.

From what I understand the RAW video began when you piped the raw feed that went to the internal H.264 encoder straight to the CF card. If there's a way to forward it to the H.264 encoder and then that resulting file to the SD card (after it's written the raw/mlv file to the CF card) it would be happy days for all users!

a1ex

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2014, 06:39:33 PM »
Didn't actually try it, but I still believe it fits on the easy coding task list.

The easiest way should be to select the SD card from Canon menu (since H.264 will use that), and force RAW/MLV recorder to use the CF drive regardless of the current card choice.

kfprod

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2014, 06:56:36 PM »
Sounds perfect.

I understand the basics of this but setting up the coding environment and learning from scratch would be very hard for me. I'm on a Hackintosh that doesn't run Mavericks. And I'm scared of messing up and breaking the camera. So I'm at your mercy and as I said in the beginning of this post if anyone could get this working I'll make a nice donation to the ML development team!

Midphase

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2014, 07:07:58 PM »
as I said in the beginning of this post if anyone could get this working I'll make a nice donation to the ML development team!

I'm always puzzled by this 'implement-something-I-want-and-I'll-give-you-a-donation' tactic. I think it's kinda backwards, in the sense that the developers aren't doing this for money, but the money does go toward purchasing gear that they can test on. In this case perhaps an Atomos Ninja. By withdrawing your money until after the fact, you're kinda negating progress to be made in the first place by not allowing them to go out and purchase the very thing they need to realize your request.

If your thought about a "nice donation" is meant as a monetary reward for the team of developers, so that they can take their kids to Disneyland, I seriously doubt that the amount you'd be willing to contribute would go very far toward improving their financial welfare.

Midphase

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2014, 07:10:28 PM »
Didn't actually try it, but I still believe it fits on the easy coding task list.

The easiest way should be to select the SD card from Canon menu (since H.264 will use that), and force RAW/MLV recorder to use the CF drive regardless of the current card choice.

Hello Alex,

Would this task the CPU too much? I actually never thought that it'd be possible for the camera to handle recording simultaneously h.264 and raw, but I will say that if such a thing could be implemented, it would be a fairly major game changer and confidence booster for many videographers. Cool, I didn't know it could possibly be done.

kfprod

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2014, 07:13:40 PM »
Midphase: I agree, you're right regarding donation. I'm sorry. Couldn't come up with anything better to put this on someones agenda.

a1ex

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2014, 07:17:25 PM »
Since the H.264 encoder is a hardware chip, I don't expect a significant performance drop. Here's a hint from somebody who tried: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5860.msg42534#msg42534

It even looks like this was a bug in some versions: http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10259

So, definitely a task for anybody who wants to jump in and code something easy.

Susteren

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2014, 02:27:37 PM »
Wow, recording h264 and raw IN CAMERA would be totally awesome! If that's possible an external recorder isn't even needed anymore for video playback! :D

kfprod

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2014, 03:27:25 PM »
It really would be great and you're right the external recorder is not needed if it works... Should have bought the SmallHD dp7 instead for monitoring.

Trying to get going with the dev environment and I have it all set up but it's been 7 years since I did any programming... So it'll take a LONG time if it's left up to me (but hopefully not 7 years). I know how to set stuff up with static CONFIG_INT and menu_entry raw_video_menu[]
as a starting point but then the main idea of forcing the raw to the CF card without touching the h264 going to the SD card will take a while for me to figure out... Hoping for someone more experienced to chime in!

Susteren

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Re: REC COMMAND via the HDMI trigger - Atomos
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2014, 04:47:22 PM »
I would be so glad if I could help with programming, but I only know HTML and PHP. :(