Apertus Axiom Beta

[markodarko]

I only learned about the Axiom and that it'll be co-developed by Magic Lantern yesterday. It looks to be absolutely phenomenal, and if developments can also seep through to our Canons as a byproduct then all the better! :-)

Incidentally, I like the photo of you (@a1ex) being shown the new sensor. It looks like you're wearing it like a watch. :-D

Cheers,

Mark.


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[rexorcine]

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[DeafEyeJedi]

@rexocrine -- that's definitely some great news. How exactly can I take advantage of this deal? Because when I click on to purchase VAT which shows me the higher price than advertised unless I'm reading the wrong one?

Also where can I get a better understanding of which sensors I would like to order to better fit with EF Lenses?

Debating between FF and cropped sensors but instincts is telling me to go with cropped but ah I ain't so sure if the shallow DOF from the cropped is worth over the FF's advantage?

I was encouraged to hear this news btw...

Thanks!

[rexorcine]

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[markodarko]

I don't want to sound like I'm putting a dampener on things but for essentially a box with a lens mount with no screen, media storage (requires an external recorder) or a battery compartment I would be surprised indeed if anyone would buy it at its current retail price. No offence intended.

Nearly £5k for essentially a "base unit" is putting it up against some pretty stiff and well established competition. Competition that have support staff and phone numbers too.

As it stands now with the "voucher" price, it's head-to-head with the Blackmagic Production Cinema Camera 4k. Ok, it doesn't shoot at 300fps but it does have a built-in screen, 90min battery and records directly to 2.5" SSD drives and also has a global shutter and records in RAW. Ok, you can't change the lens mount nor the sensor, but does that really matter for most buyers?

The Axiom is pitched from the stand point that it will save you money long term as it's completely upgradable. But, in 2 years time whatever the Blackmagic Production Cinema Camera costs today, it'll be substantially cheaper for the same spec - just take a look at their non-4K version which is around £1000 cheaper.

I can't help but feel that to compete in the current climate - let alone one in 2 years time - you need to add value to your products OR sell them substantially cheaper than the competition. Or both.

As it stands now the full retail price Axiom is £1000 more expensive than the behemoth Blackmagic URSA which also has a global shutter but also has 3x screens - one of which is a 10" flip out display and two others on the side(!), a plethora of connections, interchangeable lens mounts AND an upgradable sensor, not to mention 2x CFast slots and a modular battery slot. Ok, it's not designed for the indie filmmaker but the point I'm trying to make is how much more you get for your money, perceptibly.

Now, as I see it, the Axiom's real saviour is the 300fps feature. If it can do that at 4K in RAW then that's a real selling point. Whether or not it will be enough for the indie filmmaker (who, let's be honest, is the target audience here) to take the plunge and buy an Axiom - along with a complete rig for the external recorder, batteries and screen - we shall have to see.

I really hope it does well so that it can be further developed and more value added / cost reduced but in its current incarnation something needs to change for them to fly off the shelves in my humble opinion.

But hey, what do I know. I've never designed and sold a camera in my life and would be more than happy to be proved wrong in these thoughts. :-)


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[rexorcine]

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[budafilms]

A couple of questions.

I'm very interesting to get this camera.
But I live in South America, and I feel I can buy a problem and no a solution. Even If I can catch one in Europe in some travel.
I think I should wait for a last model, and no the beta to reduce the first adaptation to better models. Correct me, please.

I don't have lot of skills about very technical thngs, I only shoot my own movies for festivals. I know about the cameras working, I think, a lot. It's my everyday work in commercials renting different cameras. But for my art I use a 5D Mark III.

- One question is if exist a affordable recorder that can support 4K at 120/150,300 fps. I have found only the expensive atomo and blackmagic video assistant and only you can get 60 fps at 4K.
- The dinamic range it's better than a Mini Ursa 4,6K? I think you can answer this better than I can read at Google.
- After the promo, the camera will be around the double price, really?

Thank you.

[a1ex]

In addition, as each camera has its own unique IP address, and in the event that you were facing difficulties, a technical lead can jump straight in there and do the tough stuff for you.

Not sure what you mean by that. It has an IP address just like any other computer (DHCP or manually configured), but it's not necessarily unique. So, you can configure your network to allow it access the internet, if you want.

Now, as I see it, the Axiom's real saviour is the 300fps feature. If it can do that at 4K in RAW then that's a real selling point.

The sensor can do 4096x3072 at 300 fps in 10-bit mode, according to the datasheet. As I've showed here, we can use a LUT to map this data to 8-bit with minimal quality loss, so a raw stream at 4096x3072 300fps 8-bit would require 3.5 GB/s.

The DisplayPort interface maxes out at 25.92 Gbit/s or 3.24 GB/s (source), so with a small crop, it should be doable.

The problem is... how do you save that image to a storage device?

- Somebody could probably design an external recorder with lots of RAM (expensive), that could save the image to some slow media afterwards.

- I guess it would only be practical if we manage to implement some serious compression in the FPGA (MJPEG?), but that's not something I expect in the next months from my side (it's not a full-time job for me).

The current implementation runs at 30 fps.

- The dynamic range it's better than a Mini Ursa 4,6K? I think you can answer this better than I can read at Google.

There are some promising experiments regarding PLR modes, but I'm not ready with the calibration. Without HDR tricks, the DR of this sensor is not spectacular at all (to me, it looks very similar to the Ursa 4K images I've analyzed earlier in this thread).



My personal opinion:

Currently it's a just a developer kit. If you plan to design a custom interface for it, or to write custom application code, without having to deal with reverse engineering, it's a nice option.

If you just want to use it for filming, and you expect it to be better than 5D3, I'm afraid it's not ready yet. It does record 4K UHD compressed RAW at 30 fps with an external recorder, it has global shutter, it runs Linux, but that's pretty much it. At this stage, you should really not be afraid of the terminal in order to use it. If you can compile ML, you'll have no problems using it.

The main selling point IMO is being able to program it without reverse engineering. This camera is not meant to get stuck at the current capabilities - they promise it will evolve and improve continuously, but that really depends on the open source community around it.

And yes, I also think the price is really high for what it does *right now*, but I'm not sure what I can do about it. Will let the Apertus guys answer this one.

[markodarko]

An excellent reply. Thank you @a1ex. A lot there for people to digest who may otherwise be on the fence about purchasing.

Cheers,

Mark.


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[DeafEyeJedi]

Indeed an excellent reply by @a1ex and thanks to those that questioned all of this which lead to those answers as I feel better with how I stand and it'll definitely come down to cost and usefulness. Though I still believe it's quite high of a price at least for me.

[budafilms]

Thanks @A1ex, you are my movies 

[rexorcine]

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[chooksprod]

And the team talk volume 11 !

https://youtu.be/8DmGXpMnm7M

[mlubich]

I hope this is the right place to post this, if not I apologize and please feel free to remove this post.

I am Beta backer and have already payed the first rate for my axiom beta camera. Unfortunately a long time has passed and I am no longer able to finance the rest of the rates.

Is anyone here interested in a transfer of my axiom beta voucher and so being able to get an axiom beta at cost ?

[rexorcine]

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[a1ex]

The Apertus association was just accepted in the Google Summer of Code project. So, if you are looking for a way to implement something cool and get paid by Google, please submit your proposals by March 20.

https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/4801281785856000/

[rexorcine]

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[rexorcine]

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[bpv5P]

This is really cool @rexorcine
I don't know if you're a contributor to this project, but some points:
- The last github repository commit was 3 months ago. Is it the correct repository?
- There's no license file on code tree
- As pointed here, the OpenCL and OpenFX / TuttleOFX is planned. This is great and it's the highlight of this project, in my opinion. Any possibility to enable the OpenFX pluggins for Non-Local Means Denoise and SharpenCImg (Laplacian)?
- Will it have fine control for color rendering, like Color Spaces and 3D LUT's?


The team developing OpenCine should look more into what other open source projects already did, like Natron, Flowblade, Blender and Rawtherapee. There's many libraries already implemented...

[rexorcine]

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[nikfreak]

If all goes wrong you can use Canon sensors together with a1ex's qemu work and a raspbi and call it A1EXIOM 

[Danne]

call it A1EXIOM

haha, this made my day  .

[rexorcine]

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[rexorcine]

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[g3gg0]

thanks for the update