Author Topic: Apertus Axiom Beta  (Read 243542 times)

d4manager

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #225 on: October 22, 2014, 09:04:31 PM »
I just read the Canon C100 mark II spec. No raw, no ProRes. No 2k, no 4k. No slow-motion. Price - 5500usd. Release at the end of 2014.

So I think Axiom still have chance guys.

Canon eos m

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #226 on: October 23, 2014, 03:44:19 AM »
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mox-file-format

What do you all think. Is it worth supporting?
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kitor

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #227 on: October 23, 2014, 11:42:03 AM »
We have MLV... I think somebody already posted this:

EOS R

KurtAugust

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #228 on: October 23, 2014, 01:22:34 PM »
Well, I certainly don't think Apertus will mind if some writes code or builds a complete recorder with the MOX format. However, in this stage of development, combining two projects in progress makes things only overly complicated, no? If something doesn't work is it the problem of the camera or the codec? I think they better stick with the current setup for now. MLV exists, MOX not yet... And the ML team is already doing work on the project.

The MOX project is interesting, but I don't see how I can build a workflow around it for now. I wouldn't mind having a completely open source ecosystem and would like to succeed him very much.
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Canon eos m

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #229 on: October 23, 2014, 01:57:50 PM »
Agree Kitor and Kurt.
I actually didn't mean that the Apertus folks should adopt this standard.
My question was more about whether the technical folks see and merit in the MOX project enough to support.
I may put a few dollars in for the cause  :)
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Hyuri Pimentel

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #230 on: November 02, 2014, 09:10:12 PM »
Hi, guys; new to the forum here. Awesome work you guys have done; congratulations and thank you!

budafilms

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mWaltari

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #232 on: November 20, 2014, 01:22:36 PM »
Friend said that Sony sensor is not possible, or must use trickery of some kind.  Not enough photons, he thinks

a1ex

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #233 on: November 20, 2014, 04:02:03 PM »
Your friend is correct.

To get 21.282 stops of DR, one has to get at least 2550000 photons per pixel (assuming zero read noise and 100% QE). The sensor is rumoured to be micro 4/3, and Olympus E-M1 (another micro 4/3 camera) has about 16000 electrons per pixel at ISO 122, at QE=48%, so about 33333 photons (source). The rumored sensor has larger pixels - 4.6x larger (2160px on Sony vs 4640 on Oly). Which means, on a m43 sensor, at 2160px horizontal resolution, you can only get 21 stops of DR at ISOs lower than 7.3.

At ISO 5120, on a m43 sensor, at 2160px horizontally, you can only capture 3652 photons. Which means you can't get more than 11.8 stops of dynamic range - and you can only reach this number with zero read noise and with 100% QE.

That graph is totally bogus, and the rumor is just a bad joke.

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #234 on: November 20, 2014, 07:07:45 PM »
Bad jokes are not cool...
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Ellero

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #236 on: December 12, 2014, 01:06:59 PM »
I would have some important questions about the Axiom.

First, the VAT issue.

"Is the VAT included in the price? I think that the Austrian VAT  will be applied to to the camera.
Then buyers of the different EU countries will have to pay the difference with the VAT of their own countries.
Will buyers outside to the EU pay for a double taxation? In my country at least for private cityzien there is a double taxation, for professionals it works differently.

Then the question of the price!

In order to have a camera you have to buy the body and at least the battery pack and a third party EVF , then maybe at a later time you can buy the wifi controller and the adapter and Canon.

The total is 2300€ + battery pack, Canon adapter, wifi controller, and + an EVF, for a camera that records internally FullHD 50 Mbts.

For those who are my needs, I am torn between the AXIOM and a Sony A7s. I can find the Sony A7s at 1870 € VAT included, and Sony has an EVF adjustable, and is more ergonomic to take pictures.

Both cameras record internally FullHD 50 mbts, we would see in the future if the frame rate of the Axiom will be equivalent to that of the Sony A7s when internaly recording.
Perhaps the Dynamic range will be about equivalent. Sony is 14.1, Axiom I think 15. Sony is 8bit only.

To register in 4k both cameras need an external recorder as the Shogun. The AXIOM will have a proprietary functionality to record Raw sequences, when connected to a desktop PC.

I am not an expert, but the only difference I can see is that with the AXIOM you will be able to record up to 120 FPS at fullHD with the Shogun.
Maybe Up to 175 (8bit), 150 (10bit), 75 (12bit) FPS at Full Resolution with a different recorder.

I think that recording at elevates FPS is an incoming cameras features that will be soon abused in all the future video production
as the DSRL shallow focus in the past. But I don't know if I will need to use it so often.

What other functionality has the Axiom to justify the price difference?

I understand that a beta camera will have ergonomic limitations, such as no hardware controls. Since we can not use sensors, hardware components or codecs not open source or that require royalties payment.

On the other side we will have no limitations on the firmware development. At least in theory.
Also that as nofilmschools guys says:

"The most interesting aspect of the Apertus cameras is that they have the potential to be the last camera you will ever need due to the fact that they're infinitely upgradeable, which means that they won't

eventually become technologically obsolete like most of the cameras on the market will."

But it is as asking if it is more cheap or advantageous to continuously upgrade the engine and other parts of my car or to sell it and buy a complety new one every few years. In the second case I could have

a new ergonomic car body too (for that it worth).

I mainly would buy the beta Axiom with the expectation of having higher specification at a advantageous price, paying for some limitations.

It is how to use an early version of Blender, free with good modelling features, but with some rendering limitations.  And with a weird GUI. So that it could be a good product for small productions, but not

for large kolossals.

I understand that producing a beta camera in limited quantities may be more expensive then producing one in large quantities with an improved production process.

I also understand that the beginning development costs are higher then later when you will only have to add functionalities.

But from my point of view of end user the price seems a bit high. At least for my needs.

I understand that I have to wait for and to do the math by myself, but it would help me to hear other opinions, for a better comparision.

I would like to find in some blog a continuosly updated comparison between the Axiom and other commercial pro cameras,
just to see how the real development will follow and maybe go over other cameras. And to understand which features compared to other cameras I can get and which not.


I hope that Google had adequately translated my thoughts.

TKS VM

PS: I try to express myself better:
The Axiom wins when connected to a shogun or other external recorder.
But what has the Axiom basic kit than the Sony A7s?

Walter Schulz

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #237 on: December 12, 2014, 01:36:50 PM »
Before we go into details:
You opted for a 300€ perk during the crowdsourcing campaign and spent 300€ (or more)? If not:Your retail price for the body will not be 2300€. At time of the campaign the est. retail price was around 6000€.

And as a general rule: If you even consider to go with A7s I might suggest you do not want to wait for Axiom Beta.

More details if you are a 300+ contributor.
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

Ellero

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #238 on: December 12, 2014, 02:02:54 PM »
I opted for the 350€ perk . I don't need imediatly all the advanced features.

My reasoning is if I purchase the Axiom without the shogun,
is like buying a A7s with some limitation of codec or ergonomics?

Because I could get all the other benefits only after I will buy a Shogun.
So it is just to keep this possibility that justifies the price difference.

[And of course: the potential to be the last camera you will ever need due to the fact that they're infinitely upgradeable]

If all the aditional gears are not included in the 2300€ price;
the difference could be about 1000/1500 € or more? It depends on EVF quality too.

[And yes, I have to add the 350€ perk amount too]

Walter Schulz

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #239 on: December 12, 2014, 02:33:06 PM »
[And of course: the potential to be the last camera you will ever need due to the fact that they're infinitely upgradeable]

Maybe I'm wrong but this statement looks like being addressed to Axiom Gamma, not Beta.
And don't expect "last camera you ever need" means you won't have to put gear into sales ever again and/or don't have to bolster up your private museum of outdated gear if you want to stay up-to-date. It just means if you want to replace one module you don't have to replace all of them.
Sebastian, correct me if I'm wrong.
Photogs and videographers: Assist in proof reading upcoming in-camera help!. Your input is wanted and needed!

Ellero

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #240 on: December 12, 2014, 02:44:00 PM »
yes but I expect the parts to be replaced, are minimal.
Or that I can replace some  cards by my self or with the help of a geek friend, as extreme solution.
I am refering to the beta will buy. I understand that I can not get a full upgrade to the gamma.
But I expect to keep the possibility to hack it a long time and add external modules on the camera rig.

If I have to throw away the beta when it comes out the gamma,
I already have the answer to my questions.

[Edit]

I would compare the beta to a desktop PC.
The sensor is like the CPU, the board Raspberry Pi as the MB, the card Axiom as the GPU.
The firmware is the bios or the SO.

Then you can update until you have to change the socket.

But I'd like it would be possible in the future to change the graphics card of the Axiom, and push the sensor to a higher fps, without having to throw away the beta and having to buy the gamma, or change the sensor too.

Unless the Apertus guys would change the socket every odd day as Intel does.
(I don't know if sensors have all the same socket, or if it is possible to use an adapter or so on)

Commercial cameras as like the Mac, you can change nothing, and you have to send your Mac to Apple laboratories in order to upgrade the Ram

chmee

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #241 on: January 02, 2015, 02:48:33 PM »
the revolution is near :)


kim jin hyung

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #242 on: January 29, 2015, 04:02:54 AM »
hello there^^ nice to meet you
i am just like a baby about ML
i think that it is a like a revolution of dslr
and i am korean
in korea  it is gonna be awsome!!
and help me bro and sis

vrojt

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #243 on: March 22, 2015, 04:41:22 PM »
I came late to the party, but good to see some truly open-source camera. Good job!
Canon 1100D (T3), Canon 70D in future...

ajistone

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #244 on: March 25, 2015, 05:12:09 PM »
Hi , i have purchased a "voucher" for the  of the AXIOM Beta Super35. But due to economic dificulties i would like to sell my "voucher". If someone is interested plesase contact.

swinxx

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #245 on: March 25, 2015, 10:14:20 PM »
whats the deal with the voucher?
thx. sw


ajistone

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #247 on: March 26, 2015, 08:41:48 PM »
when the crowdfunding was running you could purchase the option (to buy the beta model for 2300euros)  for 350euros. I have contacted with the team and there is no problem in transfering my "option".

chmee

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #248 on: May 18, 2015, 01:25:09 AM »

extremelypoorfilmaker

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Re: Apertus Axiom Beta
« Reply #249 on: May 19, 2015, 01:30:30 AM »
I DID! :D

Only joking, i wish i had the knowledge! :)