Author Topic: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?  (Read 14230 times)

ChadMuffin

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Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« on: April 30, 2014, 04:36:46 PM »
With Chmee's CDNG tool, you can work with the raw files natively with audio synced in Premiere Pro which is awesome! (Thanks Chmee!) I really enjoy the ACR tool for color grading/correcting, especially how easy it is to change WB. But, jumping back and forth from After Effects and Premiere Pro is not the most streamlined and using Speedgrade is far easier as a workflow. And, Speedgrade is specifically designed for color grading/correcting. I know there is an option to use Resolve but, I would rather keep everything simple with Dynamic Link that Adobe offers. The only thing I have trouble with is correcting or changing the WB in Speedgrade. There is a Temperature slider but it seems to add a filter to adjust colors instead of changing the actual WB like ACR. For example, if you have something blown out and change the temperature slider to be warmer, the blown out part will become warmer in color instead of staying white such as in ACR. Also, colors don't seem to change correctly as they do in ACR. I have searched many sources such as Youtube, Google, Adobe.com, many forums to include this one for a different options similar to ACR these past few weeks and have come up empty handed. Does anyone know of an option to change WB in Speedgrade so it is similar to ACR? Thank you in advance!

iaremrsir

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2014, 06:30:52 PM »
Nope, to change raw white balance you have to tweak the values in the color space panel

chmee

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 06:42:53 PM »
and what about using the color-wheels for primary? gamma? middles? yes, in fact the workflow in "logarithmic view/slide" (ACR/Lightroom) differs from the linear way, as its used in Premiere, Photoshop or Speedgrade.

ChadMuffin

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2014, 08:12:36 PM »
Thanks for you fast replies. I will try these options out as soon as I can and post my findings.

painya

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 04:39:21 AM »
Can't you just change the WB in Premier?
Good footage doesn't make a story any better.

ChadMuffin

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 03:16:30 PM »
Not to my knowledge. Or at least changing it like it does in ACR. I am not a huge tech guy so forgive my lack of proper terms.. But, using tools in Premiere Pro such as fast color corrector or even 3rd party like Magic Bullet looks seems to change WB as if you were to change WB with a .jpg and not like a .cr2, it does not give the best results compared to using ACR with a raw image. I have been playing with Speedgrade quite a bit and going through lessons through Lynda.com and very happy with the workflow and really want to step up my video editing with ML because I really want to start offering high quality videos with the wedding photography I do. Using Adobe products all together just work out so well and easy to use. What I have been doing lately which is not fast is pulling the dng sequences into AE and exporting in uncompressed prores and then working with them in Premiere which gives great results, just incredibly slow. I could use Resolve but, I don't want to jump back and forth and relearn another product. I am looking for speed. I am still playing with the test results in Speedgrade in hopes that others will see the benefit as raw2cdng becomes more fine-tuned and for those who have Adobe CC.

DavidSh

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2014, 01:03:41 AM »
There is no easy way to do it,

I do not think that massing with log space is the right way.

Change the white balance is a result of balancing the rgb colors of each shot - There is not wb that is right for the whale footage.
You have to read the rgb parade and balance it right.

no easy way to do so like acr.

I saw that the new SG version about to release is going to have a wb tool while you import the footage but have not seen it working yet.

Best
David
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ChadMuffin

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2014, 02:32:11 PM »
Thanks for the info! I have seen some rumors regarding that in Speedgrade. Keeping my eyes out!

ChadMuffin

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2014, 09:04:22 PM »
Here is a screenshot from me working with cdng in Speedgrade and After Effects. I purposely included the blown out window so you can see what it does. The first two images are me attempting to correct them to the proper white balance. The first one is in Speedgrade, I did not spend too much time on them because the result I was talking about, with the blown out highlights changing color, became noticeable. I used a combination of all the sliders and I tried to match the waveform and histogram but, they were not represent it properly in Speedgrade. You can see the red channel is rather sporadic. The second one is in After Effects which took me only one click. The last two where were I pushed the WB way over to the cool side so you can see it. I did not use any other tools in Speedgrade other than the temperature and tint sliders, this also changed the blown out highlights. I know some of you have confirmed this in previous posts in this thread but, here is a visual representation of it. If anyone has any other ideas, I am all ears. But, it seems like Speedgrade may not be one of the best choices for a workflow with cdng or at least at this time until there is more support. I have included the cdng file if you want to play around with it and post your results. Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r6vqv5g8m6frt85/kw86ztf4Uq/WB%20Test/M30-172300005.dng

Please keep in mind that I am not a professional colorist. So be nice!  ;)


iaremrsir

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2014, 10:53:50 PM »
Here is a screenshot from me working with cdng in Speedgrade and After Effects. I purposely included the blown out window so you can see what it does. The first two images are me attempting to correct them to the proper white balance. The first one is in Speedgrade, I did not spend too much time on them because the result I was talking about, with the blown out highlights changing color, became noticeable. I used a combination of all the sliders and I tried to match the waveform and histogram but, they were not represent it properly in Speedgrade. You can see the red channel is rather sporadic. The second one is in After Effects which took me only one click. The last two where were I pushed the WB way over to the cool side so you can see it. I did not use any other tools in Speedgrade other than the temperature and tint sliders, this also changed the blown out highlights. I know some of you have confirmed this in previous posts in this thread but, here is a visual representation of it. If anyone has any other ideas, I am all ears. But, it seems like Speedgrade may not be one of the best choices for a workflow with cdng or at least at this time until there is more support. I have included the cdng file if you want to play around with it and post your results. Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r6vqv5g8m6frt85/kw86ztf4Uq/WB%20Test/M30-172300005.dng

Please keep in mind that I am not a professional colorist. So be nice!  ;)

Super easy to balance! Did it in 30 seconds. You ever used exiftool before?

Take inverse values of AsShotNeutral and that's your raw white balance values.




Applied that then the Gamma 2.2.ilut

iaremrsir

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 10:59:21 PM »
Just collect a set of values for each of the main WB settings and make .look files and save to your settings folder. Similar to this:


a1ex

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 11:05:46 PM »
If your only WB controls are RGB multipliers, which are not exactly intuitive, you may find it helpful to adjust the WB in UFRaw, and copy the RGB multipliers from there. Not sure if they match perfectly, but I think it's worth trying.

With this method, you will also be able to try my skintone WB experiment: www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9469

ChadMuffin

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2014, 12:37:58 AM »
Would you check that out!? I tried out both methods you guys brought up and they worked great. I don't know if one is better or not though. Much to learn and much to try. I plan on trying that skin tone white balance tool. But, I will be leaving for military training tomorrow and will be gone for a few weeks so I probably won't be able to continue this until I get back. The only thing is that the histogram and wave form seem to be all over the place.. Still looking into it, probably have a setting wrong somewhere.


chmee

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 01:00:37 AM »
@chadmuffin
in my tool is a bonus gadget built in. take a picture (cr2) of the scene and believe in the wb-settings the body did. name it as the mlv you want to wb-correct and place it inside the same path. the cdng's will get the wb-settings from the cr2.

ChadMuffin

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2014, 05:30:12 PM »
That will help make the process smoother!

timbytheriver

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2014, 03:30:05 PM »
@iaremrsir Your tutorial on the D16 LUTs is great – thanks! The footage looks great.

Could you expand on
Just collect a set of values for each of the main WB settings and make .look files and save to your settings folder

I'd love to know how to make this work for the Cdngs from my MLV files (5DMkII from MLV viewer). They have the green tint from hell in Speedgrade!

Also

Take inverse values of AsShotNeutral and that's your raw white balance values.

Applied that then the Gamma 2.2.ilut

Ahem. What does this mean exactly?  :-[ I'm rubbish at maths!

**EDIT** I was being lazy – sorry! So this means each ASN number's inverse has to be 1 when multiplied by the original? If so, I tried that in Speedgrade, (as in your matrix example but using my own file data) and it's still got a green tint. Any further tips?

My Exiftool ASN values = 0.5 1 0.5
so my inverses are = 2 1 2

Is my maths right? :o



Many thanks!

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beauchampy

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2014, 01:25:45 PM »
Super easy to balance! Did it in 30 seconds. You ever used exiftool before?

Take inverse values of AsShotNeutral and that's your raw white balance values.


Applied that then the Gamma 2.2.ilut

Sorry - I don't suppose you could put this in layman's terms? I've never used exiftool before and I'm not sure how to calculate an inverse value of AsShotNeutral.. This would really help me out!

Many thanks

timbytheriver

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2014, 03:38:22 PM »
Quote
My Exiftool ASN values = 0.5 1 0.5
so my inverses are = 2 1 2

Is my maths right? :o

I haven't had a reply as yet, but having studied the screen-shots of the iaremrsir's Exiftool and Speedgrade I think it means that each ASN value's inverse must be its multiplier to equal 1. See my values above. It works for me pretty well (after I also tweak the Black Level values).

Exiftool is command-line tool so I get those ASN values by dragging the DNG file into the terminal after the following command:

~ myusername$ exiftool

Look through the list that comes up and you'll find your AsShotNeutral values there.


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beauchampy

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2014, 03:54:52 PM »
I've worked it out.

You just do 1 divided by the number in AsShotNeutral

So iaremrsir had red as 0.47

1 divided by 0.47 = 2.12 (the number he used in raw white balance)

The problem I have is how to use this information in dynamic link.. Ah well I'll just have to set my WB in premiere.

timbytheriver

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2014, 04:41:24 PM »
You set these values in Speedgrade. When you dynamic link to Premiere they should hold. No?

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iaremrsir

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Re: Any options in Speedgrade for WB similiar to ACR?
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2014, 12:06:04 AM »
Sorry I haven't been on in a while.
I've worked it out.

You just do 1 divided by the number in AsShotNeutral

So iaremrsir had red as 0.47

1 divided by 0.47 = 2.12 (the number he used in raw white balance)

The problem I have is how to use this information in dynamic link.. Ah well I'll just have to set my WB in premiere.
Yes, inverse is 1/x.
SG's DNG debayering doesn't work with Direct Link. I recommend doing an edit then export an EDL.

For exiftool, just download the app http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/
and drag your dng on top of it.

Once you invert those values and put those into the white balance boxes you should have a balanced linear image. Just apply the gamma 2.2.ilut to go from linear to gamma 2.2