Author Topic: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage  (Read 585266 times)

rtwomey

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #450 on: February 03, 2015, 04:49:31 AM »
Hey Andy,

Are there are guides or tutorial videos available yet?

dubzeebass

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #451 on: February 03, 2015, 02:08:40 PM »

Hey Andy,

Are there are guides or tutorial videos available yet?

Did you check the site or are you not a member yet?

rtwomey

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #452 on: February 03, 2015, 06:27:28 PM »
@dubz

I've been a member for a while, checked the site but couldn't see them. Where abouts are they?

Update: I wasn't logged in....  ;D

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #453 on: February 03, 2015, 06:44:43 PM »
Hey @rtwomey :)

The basic user guides are in the LUT Bank (login on the website). I'm working on the first tutorials but I can't give an ETA just yet.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

DanHaag

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #454 on: February 04, 2015, 05:57:54 PM »
Hey Andy, does the latest DaVinci Resolve 11 update affect Cinelog in any (bad kind of) way? The changes according to Blackmagic seem to be focused on how Cinema DNG files are read. Haven't tried it out myself, just wonder if to update or not in regards of my Cinelog workflow.

In other news Red Giant has released a whole new version of Magic Bullet and Colorista - they both work within FCPX now. Since the completely reworked Magic Bullet III has full support for LOG footage with dedicated tools and filters, this might be a good match for everybody who wants to grade Cinelog footage in FCPX & Co.! Still looking forward to whatever ColorGradingCentral is working on with the upcoming Color Finale for FCPX. Just in case anybody here is looking for a solution like this to go on working with Cinelog files outside of Resolve.   :)

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #455 on: February 04, 2015, 06:27:37 PM »
@DanHaag - I'm putting Resolve 11.2 through it's paces atm. There's no apparent difference to previous versions. The Cinema DNG tweaks are (as I understand) aimed at Black Magic cameras. There is a tone curve improvement for debayering DNGs to REC709 but that's only useful if you're grading raw. The softclip function might help with clipped footage but mostly, the other changes have no noticeable affect on ML DNG or other raw files. DNxHR is nice for Windows users - A step up from DNxHD (although it's only .mxf afaik). BMD film colorspace hasn't altered in any way so we don't need to change anything in Cinelog-C.

re: Magic Bullet - Yes, looks like a nice upgrade. The Film plugin looks good but having inputs described as video, flat and log mean it's using a generic input colorspace (most likely rec709 primaries). Still, it should work great with Cinelog and it's good to see they implemented both the negative (probably with reversal) and print emulations. I would suggest trying it with the Cinelog-C to Cinelog-C Film Matrix or Cinelog-C to Cineon sRGB transforms. If MB's log profile is Cineon (as I suspect it is because of the print emulation part) it will be bang on the money for Cinelog :)

I'm not planning to get MB suite, mainly because I use Resolve and was never a fan of MB Looks (too extreme), so if anyone does get it I'd be interested to hear how MB and Cinelog work together.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

SwiftFoX

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #456 on: February 04, 2015, 09:09:13 PM »
Holy s***.

Is it just me or did the price double for us euro customers? I was sitting on this, not purchasing the bundle @ 43 euro, now apparently it's 73. Am I missing something?

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #457 on: February 04, 2015, 11:37:37 PM »
Cinelog-C is a much more substantial product than previous versions and it's expanding. Unfortunately, we also had to contend with new EU VAT laws that were introduced on January 1st which make all digital products sold in EU countries liable for VAT regardless of where the supplier is based. We decided not to pass on the VAT cost to EU customers so in effect we are paying whatever your local VAT rate is to the EU (this can be up to 27%). We also had a 2 week launch sale. EU customers saved around 40% when the VAT was factored in.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #458 on: February 05, 2015, 02:30:49 AM »
Regardless of the prices: It is definitely worth every dime on this remarkable product from @Andy600, no joke...
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arrinkiiii

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #459 on: February 05, 2015, 11:09:50 AM »

Yes, with no doubt, it worth any money !!!

jackmoro

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #460 on: February 05, 2015, 07:48:17 PM »
 -

jtvision

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #461 on: February 06, 2015, 10:20:43 AM »
Hi Andy,

Just purchased Cinelog-C for Resolve. Is there any Rec 709 to Cinelog-C LUT?

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #462 on: February 06, 2015, 01:54:19 PM »
@jtvision - A display space to log space transfer would likely clip a significant amount of information i.e. if your image is in REC709 it may already be clipped and we don't know the exact contrast/gamma curve used unless it's a transfer function. Why do you need this? Is it for REC709 footage or to use with REC709 colorspace in Resolve?
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

jtvision

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #463 on: February 06, 2015, 02:03:58 PM »
I have video files exported to DNxHD, dngs and raw files deleted. I want to bring them back to log and re-grade or apply/try different LUTs.

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #464 on: February 06, 2015, 02:18:34 PM »
@jtvision - That would be a bit tricky because anything that was done previously to alter the gamma curve, saturation, white point etc will seriously affect things. I can build you a lut using the REC709 transfer function to target Cinelog-C but I doubt it will work well. It should allow you to use our film look luts but I can't predict the results because your video files will be abstract. Can you email me?
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

jtvision

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #465 on: February 06, 2015, 05:53:29 PM »
Hi Andy,

I've tried to bring them back to log using  visionlog lut, which is giving me pretty good results.  I thought, if you already have something like that, I would give a try since I wanted to try LUTs from Cinelog LUT Bank.

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #466 on: February 06, 2015, 06:20:28 PM »
@jtvision - Can you email me?

It's no problem to build a lut to transform from REC709 colorspace to Cinelog-C colorspace but if your REC709 image has had any work done to it you may have clipping and hue issues using our film luts. I've built the lut for you to try already.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

jtvision

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #467 on: February 06, 2015, 07:46:58 PM »
Hi Andy,
Thank you very much for REC 709 to Cinelog C LUT!!! I did a quick test already and loving the results. Rec 709 to Cinelog C is giving flatter image than VisionLog which is exactly what I needed.
You definitely need to include this into LUT Bank. This would be a big help to match footages from different sources as well whether RAW or not.

jtvision

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #468 on: February 06, 2015, 07:48:04 PM »
And what a customer service! Worth every dollar spent!

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #469 on: February 06, 2015, 08:00:05 PM »
@jtvision - You're welcome! :)

I'll add this to the LUT bank shortly along with the input transforms (to Cinelog-C colorspace) for Technicolor Cinestyle, GoPro ProTune Flat and ProLost Flat profiles that we've been working on.

Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

DeafEyeJedi

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #470 on: February 06, 2015, 10:14:54 PM »
Great news @Andy600! [emoji106]
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

DanHaag

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #471 on: February 06, 2015, 10:27:28 PM »
Starving for GoPro Protune, Andy!  8)

rtwomey

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #472 on: February 07, 2015, 07:17:32 AM »
Hey Andy. The Resolve guides are great. I just have one last piece of the workflow I need to figure out. I do most of my CC with FilmConvert and Colorista in Premiere Pro. I'm just wondering if you'd recommend adding a Cinelog C to Alexa Log LUT in Resolve to bake it into the ProRes files or add the LUT in Premiere. I ask because I want to use the Alexa setting in FilmConvert and have the option to use all the Alexa LUTs available. I'd like to be in a position to dump my MLV files for the majority of what I shoot so I want the best ProRes masters possible.

Andy600

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #473 on: February 07, 2015, 03:22:35 PM »
@rtwomey - it depends on a couple of things really.

Cinelog-C and Alexa Log-C are essentially the same colorspace but with slightly different log curves (although in practice they are still compatible with a little manipulation of the black and white points). Log-C holds more dynamic range but it's also more compressed - a little too compressed and a waste of code values if used with MLV. Cinelog-C is print density Cineon log which has more than enough DR for MLV plus it's is more of a standard when it comes to using other film luts and presets intended for Cineon.

The Cinelog-C to 'other colorspaces' luts in the Resolve version are high precision shaper luts (i.e. they have a 1D and a 3D component) and can't be read by anything in Adobe software so unless you have the bundle version (with OCIO) you could render your log masters using both the BMD Film to Cinelog-C and Cinelog-C to Alexa Log-C Wide Gamut luts baked-in in order to use the exact FilmConvert Pro workflow you describe - BUT see my final comment below.

If you have the bundle version you can render to any of the Cinelog-C colorspace options in Resolve because there are input transforms for each of them included in the OCIO plugin configuration.

Alternatively, If you don't have the bundle version, you could export your log masters in Cinelog-C colorspace first then, as a separate job, re-export the Cinelog-C to Alexa Log-C Wide Gamut shaper lut to make a Premier compatible 33x cube lut. i.e. load the Cinelog-C to Alexa Log-C Wide gamut lut on a node in Resolve (without any other luts in nodes or the LUT panel) and then export it to create a new lut - however, you will lose a lot of precision and be reliant on lut interpolation in Premier (it's ok but not ideal) - this is why normal 3D cube luts are not recommended for precision log transforms.

In practice, FilmConvert Pro works fine with Cinelog-C footage (when FilmConvert Pro is set to Alexa Log-C input) as only the tone curve is affected. It's a happy medium for MLV and will give you the same color (just play with the contrast a little).

So basically, I would recommend rendering Cinelog-C Log masters from Resolve for your described FilmConvert Pro workflow:)
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

rtwomey

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Re: Cinelog - True logspace conversion for DNG and CinemaDNG footage
« Reply #474 on: February 07, 2015, 10:20:46 PM »
Great reply Andy, thanks. I didn't fully understand the middle part but the last paragraph is what I was looking for! ;)