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[Resolution, Crop Modes and FOV]

Resolution, Crop Modes and FOV

I ran a few tests to decide which crop mode / resolution I would use for an upcoming project, so I share my results here, in case it may be of use to anyone wondering...

I could not find a proper, affordable test target, so I decided to create one myself. The chart is 23x13 inches (60.96 x 33.02cm) 600 DPI. It can be cropped, but should not be resized, otherwise you'll lose some details. I had it printed at 600 DPI, inkjet, glossy paper at the local print shop. Total $25 and it gets the job done.
You could also print portions of it on a regular sheet of paper. Just set your printer to 600DPI.

Link to the chart: https://bit.ly/3lL7jft



The Videos:

In the first video, I recorded the chart with different lenses at 2.5k, 2.8k and 5k frtp. I then recorded various related real-life scenes to validate what I observed when reviewing the chart recordings.

In the second video, I recorded a football field right from the center at 2.5k, 2.8k and 5k frtp, at different focal lengths, to have a reference for the relationship between Focal Length, Crop Mode and FOV.

Link to the Resolution Video: https://bit.ly/3ajK6hL
Link to the FOV Video: https://bit.ly/38LQ2jn
Link to the MLV files for the resolution tests with the efm 32mm Lens: https://bit.ly/3LVaGea
(I did not include every lens tested because of space restrictions)
You have to download the videos in order to view at full Prores 422 resolution.

What to pay attention to when looking at the chart:



A: When looking at those patterns, you can see the size of details at which the camera starts creating moiré and other artifacts.

B: The various wheels help exposing any aliasing.

C: The text at various sizes, along with the various patterns, help with the evaluation sharpness.

D: The checkerboard patterns also help at observing moiré, and artifact created when recording repetitive patterns of different sizes. The sharp contrast between blocks will also expose aberrations or high contrast related artifacts, if present.

The Resolution Test

In order to facilitate comparison, I resized the 2.8K and 5K to 2520x1054 (2.5k) in the video. Downscaling the Pixel-Binned 5k has a serious advantage: A significantly sharper image. When using DaVinci Resolve or Topaz Video Enhance AI to upscale, sharpness and most details are preserved, so you will end up with a sharper image than if you left the 5k image as-is.

Also to facilitate comparison, I moved the camera closer to or further away from the target to get the same chart framing, regardless of the recording resolution / crop mode.

As expected, the 2.5k and 2.8k recordings are quite clean, with moiré present only at the smallest detail levels.There are focus dots "Trapped" between the narrowest-spaced lines. Changing the interpolation method in "Fix Focus Dots" in MLV App helps, but will not get rid of all of those. The interpolation method 3 gave the best results.

At 5k, some aliasing is present when recording steep oblique lines, but luckily, the artifacts are not as obvious (if at all) when recording real-life targets (See second portion of the Video).

The FOV Test



For this test, the camera was put right at the center of the football field. Only the focal length was modified on the ef-m 15-45mm lens. As you can see (In the video) crop modes have a serious impact on the FOV (Field-of-view). Also, by looking at the net in the goal, you can evaluate when the Focal length / detail size is large enough to avoid moiré when filming repetitive-detailed objects (Nets, fences, hair, fur, screens, rooftop tiles, etc.)

Why is 5k frtp so important?

There is very little difference between 2.8k and 2.5k. You can, for the most part, compensate by moving a few steps closer or away from the subject. The price to pay for the extra pixels in 2.8k is a less fluid recording experience and shorter recording times.

5k frtp gives not only a wider field of view, but also a significantly different perspective when compared to a similar 2.8k or 2.5k framing. frtp allows real-time previews (As opposed to the framing of 2.8k and 2.5k) and downscaling 5k to 2.5k for editing makes the noise finer, less obtrusive and quite pleasing.
The mode has issues with steep, contrasty oblique lines, but moiré has a different quality, far less obvious than in the other modes.

As a rule of thumb, avoiding fine details in the frame, getting as close as possible to the subject and avoiding extra-wide lenses will allow you to get around most problems. If shooting a scene with a lot of steep obliques, using 2.8k or 2.5k would be a good idea. It would also be good to favor lower contrast, less sharp lenses (But keep in mind that Vintage sharpness still has clarity, which is definitely not the case when looking at the softness of the ef-m 15-45mm at some focal lengths and apertures, as you can see in the video)
I do not own the proper adapters to fit older glass on my ef-m, but it would be interesting to compare different lenses to the well known ef-m lenses in such a controlled fashion, for reference.

And the Focus Dots?

When using manual focus, is there a way to forbid the camera to generate those completely? It would help a lot when shooting naked product or things like fences and lace.


Reference for Beginners:
https://martinbaileyphotography.com/2017/04/10/the-effect-of-subject-distance-and-focal-length-on-perspective-podcast-568/

[Frame Staking Noise Reduction used on Video]

Frame Staking Noise Reduction used on Video

Note: Google makes a preview of the videos in the links with Youtube-like compression.
To get the full Prores 422 quality (Necessary to evaluate the noise processing), you can download the files.

I have been running a lot of tests lately to devise an optimal pipeline for a project. Noise being something to always take into consideration, I were wondering if Frame Stacking, used regularly when taking stills, could be applied to video. There is a built-in script in MLV App based on this idea. I think the original intent was to use the method mainly with frame burst sequences, but I decided to give it a try. Although the results are far from perfect, I thought it was still worth posting as it can still be used creatively if taking some precautions. Also, maybe someone reading this will have a stroke of genius and figure out how to make it more "General-Purpose".

The script is called TIF_CLEAN.command and can be found  in MLVApp's export settings:



The process will export your .mlv file as a .tiff sequence which will be post-processed by the script. A Prores .mov file will also be created from the Tiff's.
On first run, Hugin, the program on which this script is built around, will be installed along with its dependencies. The download and install process should take less than 20 minutes. Unfortunately, in my case, in part because I am using an older OSX, I ran into permission problems and a lot had to be installed manually. There are plenty of cues appearing in the terminal window for you to figure it out, IF you have done those kinds of installs before... So it took me about an hour to get it running. If you happen to be terminal or Command-Line Averse, save this for a day where you have plenty of spare time.

Some Examples. (Video files links after the Images, All shot with EOS-M, 23.976fps 1/48th Shutter)

In order to highlight the strenghts and weaknessses of the process, I went a little outside of what would be done normally. I exposed at least 2 stops below optimal and then added 2 stops in MLVApp to increase the noise.
Being able to record underexposed  (and know you can deal with some of the noise later) has its advantages, as it allows you to record higher resolutions in 14bit almost continuous (More details in shadows), have fully intact highlights, etc. Also, when shooting in dimly-lit environments, such as Churches and concert halls, a tiny inconspicuous EOS-M which can be fitted to a tiny gimbal can be preferable to a heavier Full-Frame.

Example 1: Slow Pan, 1 axis Pan, Tripod EF-M 32mm f1.4 @ f2.2, ISO 100


Areas or interest with the green arrows. We have Shadows, ok-ish exposed and underexposed.


With 2 Stops added (The noise is clearly visible to the right of the image.)


After processing. The noise is completely gone on the Recycling bin, and a little movement is left in the shadows which were lifted to the right of the image.

Original Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lsmxm3iyz4rUvq5QkqQcVY2XobWURuGb/view?usp=sharing

Processed Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n6rY61uKT1Fc-6CLzxsnWyZxfR1ho9J-/view?usp=sharing


Example 2: Slow Pan, 2 axis Pan, Tripod EF-M 32mm f1.4 @ f2.2, ISO 100


Original.


2 Stops Added.


Processed. See how the details in the hair and on the shirt are preserved, and the noise in the leaves is almost gone.


Smooth Aliasing 3 pass added on top for good measure. This adds a motion blur to the footage, which could be helpful in some cases, such as the next examples.

Original Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AqdLu6tQyxHspNqyFfKuEKqDb7xg8uGN/view?usp=sharing

Processed Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wVQbrAL9cuOreMxAcWJaWgW4b0gLdVHY/view?usp=sharing

Processed with Smooth Aliasing 3 pass added: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D1X3WZ4V_TZUJ7CfXBX4YswOojvmTbWT/view?usp=sharing


Example 3: Fast Motion, All Axes, Handheld EF-M 15-45mm @ 15mm f3.5, ISO 800


After a few exchanges with Danne, it became obvious that this method was severely challenged when having to align images with movement on several axes at the same time. So I shot this one handheld, but with a stabilized lens. One thing to note is that in its original form, the script will report a silent error when images cannot be aligned properly (You end up with a video with a frozen frame where the error occurred. The error tolerance is 3 pixels) In order to give it a larger margin, I edited the script so that it has a 100 pixel margin, to allow plenty of movement. The following options need to be added to align_image_stack (-t 100 -g 20). You end up with: align_image_stack --use-given-order -t 100 -g 20 -a ...
The -g option gives a 20x20 grid (As opposed to the default 5x5) so that, hopefully, the movement would not affect the whole image (More apparent in example 4)


Processed. As you can see, when an object is moving fast enogh to cross the 5 frame boundary within a sampling period, we end up with ghosting (The script stacks a total of 5 frames, Current, 2 before and 2 after).


Processed with Smooth Aliasing 1 pass added. This adds some motion blur, but not enough to hide the ghosting.


Here, I filmed the same sequence but without a car in the middle of the frame. You can still see some ghosting on the cars afar (In the video), but the bulk of the image isn't too affected.

Original Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12ScYGKewG3GkjNaP_xzQ2JEJ9X0FLyqT/view?usp=sharing

Processed Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n3_ORRINhAWGQ8vbx9NbhSWLzjD7BsK2/view?usp=sharing

Process with Smooth Aliasing 1 pass added: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VL225cvRZLfh22tLGQMQSy5XWofCMVeK/view?usp=sharing

Sequence without  Car: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17LyqUbVZk0YpyDo7yq76W3TnQhq8KnHc/view?usp=sharing


Example 4: Fast Motion, All Axes, Handheld EF-M 15-45mm @ 15mm f3.5, ISO 100


Original. To find out if night time had anything to do with it, I reproduced example 3 during the day.


Processed with options -t 100 -g 1
The ghosting is still there and when the car passes by, the whole image shakes as if it were an earthquake!


Processed with options -t 100 -g 35
This processes using a 35x35 grid (As opposed to the 1x1 of the previous example). The image is a lot more stable, but still not enough. A finer grid would be required and the ghosting still needs to be addressed.

Original Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Er3r13Vu9n-d1SNKwcvYNESK1MCuno1h/view?usp=sharing

Processed Video 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qW6M0MEFI8TZE2eq9O2sdP9N4mcJ92ZR/view?usp=sharing

Processed Video 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qW6M0MEFI8TZE2eq9O2sdP9N4mcJ92ZR/view?usp=sharing


Example 5: No Motion, Tripod EF-M 32mm f1.4  @f2.0, ISO 3200


Original. Here only the moon as a light source at iISO 3200. This example would benefit from more frames in the stack, and maybe from dual ISO.


Processed. The noise has been reduced substantially. There is still some movement in the noise, but it shows how powerful this stacking method can be under ideal conditions.

Original Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FrkHYPpgIQbZ_HL4DY1mPzYivtqZQ6af/view?usp=sharing

Processed Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17lLcWzV-Lu-xLSV4MkfN8oyWMZOj_EzK/view?usp=sharing

Conclusion

The way it is now, if planned accordingly, this method could allow to film still subjects such as flowers and wildlife (As long as it isn't too windy, as too much movement creates artifacts); Statues, landscapes, Architechture, etc. Using a tripod (or maybe a gimbal) is mandatory.

This is beyond my current technical abilities, but maybe someone with more skills can find a clever way to use the deghosting_mask function present in Hugin. Using a much finer grid would also help a lot (I could not go beyond 35x35 and get a complete video sequence). If there was a way for the system to detect motion and avoid blending frames there, it would also help.

Also, this method isn't for everyone. With a Six Core 3.33GHz, it takes 6 minutes per second of footage to process at 2.5k resolution.

I have seen similar results (minus the major artifacts) with Topaz Vid Enhance AI at 4-6 minutes per frame when using the cpu.
As some of you know, when using temporal noise reduction such as Neat Video or the NR present in DaVinci studio, some details are lost. This is why Frame Stacking is interesting, as fine details are preserved a lot more.

So, this has been tested so far, so anyone with the same idea reading this will have a few examples to start with


References:

https://wiki.panotools.org/index.php?title=Align_image_stack&oldid=15916
https://manpages.debian.org/testing/hugin-tools/deghosting_mask.1.en.html
http://enblend.sourceforge.net/enfuse.doc/enfuse_4.0.0.pdf

Example of deghosting_mask  applied on  a still panorama: https://www.miltonpanoramic.co.uk/deghosting.php

.mlv file for Example 4: https://bit.ly/3yvi1yf

Possible. Check scripts included in Mlv app. Yould tweak those directly without recompiling.

Are you referring to TIF_CLEAN.command and enfuse_average.command?

If so, yes this is within my reach.

Chroma smooth 3x3 is not that bad either.

Actually, this works a lot on the hair images I were referring to. It gives it the shine back. Thanks!

Your suggestions prompted me to dig deeper into MLV app (I'm still new to the whole ML pipeline)

A question: I saw in MLV app that there is an option to stack TIFF's to get a clean image (Averaged Frame).
Would it be in the realm of possibilities to, instead of scanning the whole .mlv file to average to a single photo image, Output a sequence of Tiff's where each frame in the .mlv file is averaged with the nearby frames? (And just clean the shadows like magic)

For example, given frames 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9...
Frame 1= avg(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8)
Frame 2= avg(2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9)

Or maybe
Frame 4=avg(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8)
Frame 5=avg(2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9)
etc.

I "Think" that 8 frames plus slow camera movements would work, maybe?

Dots can be removed using focus pixel maps. Interpolation method 3 looks nice for this example:

Yes, I just tried with the other clips and it gives a massive improvement, Thanks!

[1-]

Tests for crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2022Apr30.EOSM202

Presets tested 2K, 2.5K, 2.8k, 5K Ana frtp.

Monitor: Asus PB278Q Hdmi in, hdmi 1.4 cable
Phone: LG V30
Capture Dongle: Hagibis UHC06
Capture App: USB Cam (MJPEG 1920x1080 60P)

Hello Everyone, (And thank you Danne)
I tested the latest build and here are my findings:

This build is a lot more stable than the previous ones: very few camera restarts were required.
One tip for smoother operation is to give the cam time to  operate and reconfigure between button presses.
If you experience something weird (More Below) A camera Restart and Reloading the preset fixes it.

1- 2.5k 1:1 Centered hdmi can be used with an hdmi monitor, or without, (Phone works with 2.5k 1:1 Centered or the default 2.5k preset), without pink frames. But the preview on screen makes it not very usable.
With hdmi, Only 5k Ana frtp gives an  accurate representation of what is being recorded (A few screenshots below)

2-One time Autofocus works better, and can come in handy, once you get a feel for it.

When setting the cam to AF, you can autofocus with the half-shutter button and record. It is not continuous and it may let you refocus only once during the recording.
The best way I found to use it is to press and hold the set button to get to sticky-zoom, Aim, hold half-shutter until focus, keep holding for 1 second, release and it goes back to the preview. You then press record. Can be handy if it is very bright outside and you cannot see the screen properly.

AF+MF behaves like AF. Maybe you could send a dummy MF signal so that it releases the Autofocus after focus confirm, so we could have the option to manually adjust from there, if needs be.

After a few uses, the AF stops giving the confirmation beep, but is still finds the spot.

The results are not always as sharp as if you do it yourself, but it has been usable in every test I did.

Sometimes the screen displays Vertical green lines or gets corrupted. Camera Restart is then required.

3-Half-Shutter button and STAR button work faster and more consistently when used for X10 Zoom.

When used in MF mode, as long as you do not rush the keypresses, both buttons work reliably and as expected. If you press and relase too quick, you may have to do it twice.

4-The Framing / Preview function works reliably across every preset tested.
When using the eos-m screen, what you see in framing is what you get.
Exception: The 5K Ana frtp preset must be used in preview mode. (it says frtp in the title so...)
In framing, the image on screen is shifted downwards, but it records the framing you get in preview.

5-Sometimes, the x10 zoom "Gets lost" somewhere off-center (You may not realize what part of the image you are looking at if shooting a row of flowers or a forest with few distinctive visual cues, for example.
I could not reproduce the issue every time, but there is a screenshot below. Most times it zooms-in close enough to the center.

6- I had a white screen on power up on 2 occasions (Preset reload fixed it). I cannot reproduce it on demand.

7-Recording times are in line with my previous tests, except for the 2.8k preset, I were able to get 14bit 23.976 fps, 2608x1092, at least 1 minute (2022April 10 build).
Now I need to set it to 12 bits to get 1 minute+

Hdmi Monitor and Phone

The chart , a DIY chart made with water bottle wrappers (Nice patterns to check for moiré and lots of little characters)


The Recorded Output, 2.5k Centered hdmi preset:


What we see on the phone-as-a-monitor:


What we see on the Asus hdmi monitor:


I won't post every screenshot to save space, but what we see on the monitors is always a cropped version of the final image; sometimes centered, sometimes not.

Only the 5k Ana frtp preset displays the whole image, but it doesn't work when using the phone. In the latter case, only the interface displays and the preview is scrambled.

x10 Zoom

The recorded output


What we see on the Eos-m


What I saw when I zoomed in (Star Button or Shutter Half-Press)


It often displays an area close to the center (Easier to notice when on a tripod). Also, if I use the invisible arrows on the tap screen to navigate to a region of interest, the next time I zoom in it will display the default area, and on a subsequent press, the arrow-navigated area.

Edit: With the latest Build, crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2022May04.EOSM202_test.zip, the zooming has been greatly enhanced. It now always land close to the center and doesn't get lost anymore. It is also more responsive.

Not Exclusive to this build: Image Quality

When recording surfaces with a lot of details (Hair, Fur, certain surfaces), some quasi-static dots appear over those areas. It sometimes make the image look "dirty". Changing debayer type sometimes improves it a bit, but there are always traces left. If I take a picture, those artifacts do not appear.
Is there a parameter that can be tweaked to make the sensor scanning more precise? (Even if it is at the expense of some resolution)

Example 5k Ana frtp




Example 2.5k


A link to the mlv file
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zV7A2JUXOpxUrt-ewXol6s-eiM6BhBjB/view?usp=sharing

Also, maybe this is only anecdotal, but when installing a new build, the camera needs an on/off cycle before working with consistency.

Some Test Results

Test Parameters:

Build: crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2022Apr27.EOSM202
Monitor: Asus PB278Q Hdmi in, hdmi 1.4 cable
Phone: LG V30
Capture Dongle: Hagibis UHC06
Capture App: USB Cam (MJPEG 1920x1080 60P)

2 one minute clips and 3 30seconds clips per Ratio/Bitdepth for 5kfrtp with/without monitor

60 clips total with varying presets and bit depths  for 2K,2.5k,2.8k,5kana,5kflv  with/without monitor

Shooting straight at  a lightbulb to make it fill half the frame (Slightly clipping), pan left-right to help spot skipped frames.

5Kfrtp:

Works in 16:9, 2:35 and 2:39 ratios
10,12 and 14bits, continuous
16:9 now gives continuous recording (Did not with yesterday's build)
Half-Shutter and Star Button gives a Zoom. Works with Sticky enabled or not.

I got a few black previews when starting up the camera without hdmi monitor.  (You see the interface, but nothing in preview). Restart Required. I Wasn't able to reproduce the issue on demand.

While recording, using the monitor, there are occasional flashing bars on the external side of the Live View. It does not affect the recording and is fixed by pressing MENU twice.

2.5K

2.5K 2520x1418: When using the Monitor, I get Pink frames. Sometimes, there are black  blank spots on the screen, which are not as apparent as pink frames. 
2.5K Centered: You never get pink frames, but some of the clips have the black spots.
If what changed is not obvious to you, let me know and I will go back to the April 26 build to check if I only got lucky when I did not get any.
Edit: I checked the files recorded with the April 26 Build, some showed the occasional black spots on the image.

When using the phone (3 recordings), I did not get pink frames.
Edit: Did 5 more recordings, the image is always corruption-free.


About 3x crop and focus aid options in Customized Buttons:

When using 2.5k Preset  with hdmi monitor: The x3 and focus aid options cannot be changed (Remains Off) Looks like you've put a safeguard there.

When Using 2.5k Preset with  the Phone:The options can be selected, and even when selected, the preview displays correctly and recording is free of corruption.
Also, the Star and Half-Shutter button work and give a zoom in, zoom out when you release (Or press again if sticky is enabled).

2K, 2.8K: Nothing new to report

5K ana and 5k flv:

I tested 10bits and 12bits and various resolutions. It is possible to get 5k flv (Set 25fps ON) 1520x1906 10bit @23.976 2.39:1 for at least 1 min (Stopped Myself). 
I need to run resolution tests to see if those extra pixels are actually worth the effort...
Every recording was corruption-free.
Half-shutter and Star button work like 5k frtp


About rewiring the SET Button:

when i load one of the cropped presets, If I use the SET button for the dropdown presets,, it goes to the presets list found on top of the movie tab.
The 5Kfrtp preset works as expected, it goes to the "Tap display" presets when I hit SET.

About the half-shutter Focus aid button:

1-Try loading the H264 tap preset, Check.
2-Then turn Raw video on, Check. The process is slower than step 1, but snappier than 5k frtp. Maybe this can be a hint, maybe not.

Thanks for posting your workflow around using a phone.
Define display correctly using a phone? Full real time view? Framing? Cropped view?

With yesterday's build:

Phone:

5k: Doesn't display preview, only the interface shows (See the screenshots I linked in my previous post)
2k: Full realtime preview
2.5K: Realtime crop
2.8k: Realtime crop

Monitor:
5k: Full Realtime Preview
2k: Full realtime preview
2.5K: Realtime crop
2.8k: Realtime crop

The state remains the same whether you are recording or not (As opposed to the display turning into Grayscale framing when recording on the 2.8k preset on eos-m display, for example)

2.5K Preview crop (Estimate)

2.8K preview crop (Estimate)

I would like a detailed description how correct display is working over a phone? What program is used, connectors etc.

Sorry about that, I had to edit my post to keep it slimmer

Phones Tested: LG V30 and Samsung S8 (Both work identically, OTG must be enabled if it isn't already)

Capture Dongle: Hagibis UHC06
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003578647111.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.f3207226CSULaS&algo_pvid=8c9ae453-45ca-47af-ba6d-ac2e82e713c0&algo_exp_id=8c9ae453-45ca-47af-ba6d-ac2e82e713c0-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000026355134132%22%7D&pdp_npi=1%40dis%7CCAD%7C%7C19.77%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%402101d91e16510716307594707e6967%7C12000026355134132%7Csea

You will need something like this so you can connect a powerbank to the phone (Battery drains fast)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003377144632.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.ae4559faZe23kH&algo_pvid=342ea171-bf60-4bd0-b33f-c7e3888dea9b&algo_exp_id=342ea171-bf60-4bd0-b33f-c7e3888dea9b-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000025498967128%22%7D&pdp_npi=1%40dis%7CCAD%7C%7C6.38%7C%7C%7C2.19%7C%7C%400b0a556016510717328135199ef60b%7C12000025498967128%7Csea

Android App: USB Camera (Free Version)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.shenyaocn.android.usbcamera&hl=en_CA&gl=US

Connected with a Straight 1 meter Mini hdmi to hdmi 1080P hdmi 1.4 Cable.

From my Previous Post:
When using a capture dongle with a phone and usb camera, the dongle needs to be connected to the phone BEFORE powering it on. That way, 2K, 2.5K and 2.8K presets work (But the screen shows only part of the actual recorded image). When changing presets, resolution, etc, the EOS-m needs to be restarted. Edit: This seems to be fixed, will test some more. My hdmi monitor (Asus) doesn't work with 2.5K (At any aspect ratio), but some people got their monitors working when using a 16:9 ratio) Edit: With the April 26 2022 Build, Pink Frames at 2.5k ARE GONE! (5 clips recorded). Maybe we could post working configurations in a dedicated thread to make it easier for everyone... My USB camera Video Format settings are: MJPEG, 1920x1080 60p (important, otherwise the screen may be blank)

Screenshots of the phone and monitor outputs: (Taken with this build: crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2022Apr26.EOSM202.zip)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zWw8YD_cvj_PawmkjybyozBM20lQokAf/view?usp=sharing

Regarding hdmi: (Of course, considering that Record fps and Higher resolutions means compromises have to be made)

If anyone knows what kind of signal is output for the live view, framing and interface,
It would allow us to look for the right capabilities when shopping for a monitor, as not every preset displays correctly on every brand.
On my end  for example, while 2K,2.5k,2.8K display correctly when using a phone; only 2K,2.8K and 5K display on my monitor (But with heavy crop)

In 5K ana (Not frtp), you get the whole frame preview, it is squeezed, but it takes the whole available space.
I do not own one, but the newest field monitors allow to unsqueeze (If you use an anamorphic lens).
Even though the interface text will be distorted, this could be an acceptable compromise, if getting a non zoomed crop preview is not possible, in the cropped  modes.

A hdmi customize section would be helpful as @Danne stated. If possible, ideally we would be able to have:

Choose between squeezed (Bigger Image, which could be unsqueezed on monitor)
and a smaller unsqueezed version, like the one we currently have for 5k frtp;

If bandwidth is limited, we could always have a low fps "Frame Correct" preview
Then press Star button (Or half-shutter press) to toggle between Cropped Realtime preview and Framing.
That way, if you need to keep an eye on framing, you can get low fps framing and just keep a consistent distance to the subject to maintain focus (And stop down a little to have more margin);
If you need to follow-focus, you use the center realtime crop.

The way it is now, the hdmi preview is heavily cropped and isn't centered, so it heavily limits its usefulness, As you don't know exactly what is included in the shot.
If Framing is technically non-feasible, then the crop needs to be centered, at least.

Especially when very sunny outside, a monitor is necessary, as even with full brightness (Which drains battery faster) it is not easy to focus on the small screen.
Insigna makes a stick-on hood to put on the eos-m screen, but it gets in the way when using a gimbal.

Regarding Centering:

The presets also need to be centered (Center part of the sensor) when possible, as vignetting, "Maintain Framing when zooming" and peripheral sharpness aren't consistent across presets.
I am aware that a lot of users are into Landscape / Nature / Vacation type shootings, where that stuff isn't too obvious.
But I have seen a few reviews on Youtube blaming those issues on the Lenses and Filters.
With a well performing lens (ef-m 32mm, Sigma), not too obvious, but with a Vintage (Helios and al...)

Right Now:
5k frtp: Lower portion of sesnor is scanned, slightly off center
2K:Leaning towards bottom, leaning towards right
2.5K: Almost centered, leaning towards right
2.8k: When first loading the preset, top and  left heavy. Press menu twice, goes to lower portion slightly to the  left.

I tried changing the CMOS registers, didn't succeed, as the steps are quite coarse, then I got a black screen.

To verify, you can (Use a Zoom Lens):
1-  Start up bypassing ML (Hold Set while powering on) to get a center reference, check zoom.
2-  Restart, In ML, enable  Overlay>Cropmarks, select CrssMtr2.bpm, then have a look at the different presets and check zoom behaviour and peripheral sharpness.

@Danne, didn't know I had my camera with me.
It works and it opens the door to many more possibilities! 
One should disregard my previous post completely, as the procedure won't be necessary, unless you want something very specific.

When using a hdmi monitor, Setting Customized buttons to:

x3crop toggle     Off
focus aid           Off
gain                  Aperture only
INFO selectable  INFO1
Tap display         Off

Gives You: up/dpwn buttons= Aperture control, circle knob= Shutter Control, INFO button= select dropdown (but you have to press info again after selecting the preset, to get to the preview).

Zoom, False color and Zebra will most likely be available on your monitor.

Without a monitor:

x3crop toggle     SET
focus aid           sticky push
gain                  Aperture only
INFO selectable  INFO4
Tap display         Tap display 01

Give you INFO button= false color on/off, up/down buttons= Aperture control, circle button= Shutter control and  Tap screen= dropdown menu selection.

The MENU button is now always working as expected, so no access is lost.
(The camera needs to be restarted after modifying all those settings, otherwise some things give unexpected results)

When using 5k Ana mode, the false color (or Zebras) doesn't cover the top part of the preview, so you just need to aim a little higher to check exposure there.

Thank you again. Once you get to understand how everything works, this camera gives some REALLY high quality images.

@gabriielangel
Here´s a crop_rec.mo which let´s you select INFO button and let´s you choose between Zebras or false color. Is this how you mean?
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern_jip_hop_git/downloads/crop_rec.mo

I will try it and report back tomorrow. Thanks!

You could probably customize info button to select zebras etc. Don't have much time here to do this. Code for customization lies in crop_rec.c.
Not sure what the issues are you are describing wirh MENU. How is it suppose to work and is that working so with other eosm builds? Is it working with official nightly build for instance?

The 2.5k issue seems to be device dependant. Like I said, it works on my phone-as-a-capture-device for 2K,2.5K,2.8K, and works with my monitor with 5KFRTP,2k,2.8k. I will ask Zeek, as he uses several different brands.

As a workaround for now, I start with 2.8K, or 3K preset (Which gives a larger but low fps preview) and lower the resolution from there.


Like I said in the post, it is possible to use the info button to select zebras, but the way I managed to make it work disables the functionality of the menu button (Without any programming that is, only using available functions). I will try to explain it clearly, the procedure takes less than a minute, so you can check the behavior when you have more spare time:

Press the MENU button once, you see the first menu
Press the MENU button a second time, you see the second menu.
Press Menu again and you are back to the  preview screen.

1-Now press trash can to get inside ML menu
2-Go to Prefs>LV Display Presets>select 2 (or 3, or 4)
3-Go to Movie>Customized buttons>INFO selectable>select OFF
4-Go to Overlay, to the top right corner, you will see DISP0 in gray.  Make sure that on this page, nothing is selected besides Global Draw.
5-Tap the screen once, you will see DISP1 in gray in the top right corner. On this page, select  Global Draw and False color.

Press Menu.
Now, pressing the INFO button toggles between False Color and a clean overlay. By selecting 3 or 4 in Step 2, and cycling between different DISP pages in step 5 (By tapping the display), you can use the INFO button to toggle between several different modes while in live view.

Press Menu. Now it goes straight to the second menu.
While it is possible to map the Aperture to the up/down buttons, you still lose shutter and Audio Levels settings(which are located in first menu. Shutter access is kinda needed, as switching presets and speed hacks often changes the shutter values.

This behavior has been there since at least the Feb042021 build (I can't go earlier than this, as I weren't an ML fan before that date

On a side note, with the latest build:

When enabling lvface+aewb, and keeping 1/50 shutter, no fine-tuning (Which doesn't matter if you do a static shot) It is possible to get at least 30 seconds of 12bit 2800x1172 23.976 with the 3K preset, and 10bit 21fps continuous-ish with the 5K ana flv.

Those two modes come in handy if you want to have a larger FOV and cannot move back.

Thanks ZEEK.

Those are really nice images! The Black Mist filter adds a nice finishing touch to the image.

[Added a new version:]

Added a new version:
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern_jip_hop_git/downloads/

Includes these changes:
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=26443.0

Just tested crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2022Apr18.EOSM202.zip

Works like the previous build, I get comparable results to my last test https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=26443.msg238437#msg238437 (20 recorded clips).

On my end, the 2.5k Preset still gives pink frames when using hdmi with monitor, 2 times out of 3.
So, the monitor works fine with 5K frtp, 2K, 2.8k
And with a phone and capture dongle (Samsiung S8, LG V30, Hagbis Capture Dongle);2K, 2.5K and 2.8K work, no pink frames, but with 5K frtp, only the interface shows, not the video overlay. (The dongle has to be connected prior to turning the phone on for 2.5k and 2.8K to work)

It is worth noting that, on an hdmi monitor (or Phone with hdmi capture dongle),  the preview for 2.5K and 2.8k are uncentered crops of the actual recorded image. So unless you are recording a landscape or a general frame without any particular point of interest, there will be some randomness in your framing...

An ongoing related issue:

When enabling 7th ML Menu>LV Display Presets (2,3 or 4)
And then 3rd ML Menu>customized buttons>INFO selectable (OFF)

It is possible to use the INFO button to toggle between different Overlay presets (2nd ML Menu), to toggle Zebra or False Colors on and off, for example.

But then, the MENU Button stops giving the menu where you have access to the Aperture, Shutter and Audio Levels settings. It is possible to change 3rd ML Menu>customized buttons>gain (aperture only) to get access to the aperture, but we still lose shutter access and audio level settings. The MENU issue had been addressed at some point, but it seems like it is there again (has been like this for at least the past 3 builds).
False Colors and /or Zebra are a must to have consistency between takes. It would be nice to have a way not to have to go to the ML menu before each take to turn those off.

Is there a script or a way to do frame stacking (For Noise Reduction) from within MLV app?

@mlrocks , This is very interesting. Did you have a chance to compare the output of the 650D to that of the eos-m? As the 650D is quite affordable, it could be interesting.

I think that now 650D is an APS-C 5K raw camera with hardware compression ratio of 3. Although software compression may have better recovery with smart algorithms, 650D 5.2k 1x3 footage very possibly will stack against other raw cameras' 5K footage at a compression ratio of 12 or even 8 or 6.

By hardware compression ratio of 3, do you mean subjectively?
1x3 Binning isn't exactly compression. What you lose is mostly sharpness (And detail resolution), because every 3  horizontal pixels are combined into one. (But every line is scanned, thus, vertical resolution is relatively untouched)

I just edited Reply #48, for those who would like to know more about using the latest build with an hdmi monitor.

Interesting. So 2.8k shows better results than 2.5k when it comes to pink frames.
So there's a shutter issue when +aewb i selected? And only with hdmi I suppose?

The shutter issue, when +aewb is selected, occurs with and without hdmi monitor. It does so at every resolution / preset, and I restarted the camera after each preset change to make sure.

Just so I can avoid having to test everything empirically, If I were to start with the 2.8k preset, and lower the resolution from there, regarding raw buffers and what is happening behind the scenes, should I theoretically get the same behavior as selecting the 2k preset, for example?

Also, what is the advantage of scanning the top part of the sensor, as opposed to scanning it dead center?

Some results.
I recorded two batches of about 30 clips each. I reviewed Both batches today, so here are my findings:

When adding the hack "Lvface+aewb", using HDMI monitor or not, if I set the shutter fine tune so that I get between 1/46 and 1/48 (a little above 1/46 gives the appropriate blur we're used to, 1/48 seems faster than expected), the value of the shutter jumps to 1/30 as soon as I hit record. It shows in the recorded file, as you see the exposure ramping up within the first 10 frames or so (using other fine tune values will shift the exposure relative to the value).

Putting  Shutter fine tune to "off" will keep a steady 1/50.

Using only "Lvface" instead of "Lvface+aewb" fixes this Shutter issue, but 2.8k recording will redline at 12 bit and record about 20 seconds.




So using only the "Lvface" hack and hdmi monitor, the figures are as follows:

2.8K:
12 bit 23.976 fps, records about 20 seconds.
10 bit 23.976 fps, records continuously, between green and orange light.
No pink or dropped frames, focus pixels can be seen clearly  while recording, but are taken care of with mlvapp.

Following Danne's hint about resolution:
14bit 23.976 fps, if I lower the resolution to 2656x1112, I get at least 30 seconds, oscillating between red and orange light.
14bit 23.976 fps, If I lower the resolution to 2608x1092, I get at least 1 minute (Stopped myself on each trial), always in orange light, no red.

2.5K:
Speed Results are the same, but lots of pink frames regardless of the bit depth. even restarting the camera does not fix it. So, not usable with an HDMI monitor for now.
Edit: See Reply#42, it works with a phone and capture dongle in my case (And no pink frames), when connecting the dongle before turning on the phone, and also when powering off the camera after each settings / preset change)

5K ana frtp: The results are similar to my previous post (Reply #42), no pink or dropped frames and no focus pixels.

2K: Continuous recording at every bit depth. No corrupt frames.

Out of 60 clips, I got 3 corrupted clip, which would not open (2.8k).


When using the hdmi monitor, when switching presets, the connection to the monitor is often lost. You have to shutdown the camera and it runs fine on restart.

Like I mentioned in the previous post, using the hdmi monitor disables the tap screen dropdown list. So I have to assign the dropdown list to the info button.
But, when pressing info, you have to turn the wheel quickly, because it chooses a preset by itself as soon as you stop spinning the wheel.

Also, I noticed that every preset uses a different center (Those scan different parts of the sensor) and if I use the 2.5K Centered preset as a reference, the presets are often a little to the right, with the 5K preset scanning towards the lower portion of the sensor (Which at least give you a chance to get the eyes in better focus if filming a person when using an older lens).

It would be good to disclose the exact offset figures, as this would allow people to choose the right lens accordingly. Unless you use an ef-m 32mm f1.4 or, to a slightly lesser extent, ef-m 22mm f2; you don't get edge to edge sharpness. So, if you use a Helios or a c-mount lens, you will get uneven bokeh and vignetting, as those vintage lenses get softer and blurrier very quickly as soon as you deviate from the center. (Not too apparent if you do nature shots, but a lot more if you frame a subject off center.)
Zooming also requires reframing, when symmetry is needed. A non technical person will easily overlook those details and will have to learn the hard way, after wondering for hours if they were drunk the day of the shoot 

Those long clips take forever to convert! I will let you know in a few days, as I need to look at everything very closely to spot focus dots, glitches, etc. So that whoever reading the comment can use it accordingly.

Nice test report!
So, just to be sure. All tests reported here includes the use of a hdmi monitor? Except the usb camera test that is.

Correct. I used the HDMI input of an ASUS PB278Q. If you could point me to some info on how the hdmi out works, I could try to find out why the usb dongles and the lower end field monitors are so finnicky.

EOS M Test Results using HDMI Monitor:

Build: crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only_2022Apr10.EOSM202.zip, link in first post
SD Card: Sandisk Extreme Pro 170 MB/s, 128GB
192MHz Hack

In order for the hdmi output to work reliably, the presets need to be changed using the "Tap Display". When connecting an hdmi monitor, the screen tap doesn't work (The eos screen is disabled). So we could go to 3rd ML Menu, customized buttons, and put "INFO SELECTABLE" to "Off" and  change "Dropdown List" to "INFO", but then lose whatever function was assigned to the Info button. We could also disconnect the hdmi cable to select presets, but I don't think this would be recommended as the Mini hdmi connector isn't "Industrial Strength)

Also, in order for all the different presets to work reliably, without Pink / Green half screen, squeezed display, freezed display; in 3rd ML Menu Disable x3 Crop Toggle and Disable Focus Aid. Those 2 functions won't be needed if using a field monitor with pinch-to-zoom or zoom functions.

If using a phone with USB Camera or another capture app installed as a monitor, only the 2k 1:1 preset works (Tested with LG V30, Samsung Galaxy S8, Hagbis UHC06 capture dongle)

Edit: When using a capture dongle with a phone and usb camera, the dongle needs to be connected to the phone BEFORE powering it on. That way, 2K, 2.5K and 2.8K presets work (But the screen shows only part of the actual recorded image). When changing presets, resolution, etc, the EOS-m needs to be restarted. My hdmi monitor (Asus) doesn't work with 2.5K (At any aspect ratio), but some people got their monitors working when using a 16:9 ratio). Maybe we could post working configurations in a dedicated thread to make it easier for everyone... My USB camera Video Format settings are: MJPEG, 1920x1080 60p

The Benchmark module doesn't write the results as a .ppm file (image file) on the card anymore, but I get 61.9 / 63.9 MB/s Write speed, which are the exact same figures I had when running the June 26 2021 Build. The recording times have been expanded significantly though:

5K frtp:
14bit 23.976 fps, recorded over 3 minutes once, and several 1 minute clips in a row, no interruptions (Orange light).
12bit 23.976 fps, records continuously (>3 minutes).

2.5k:
14bit 23.976 fps, toggles between green and orange light, Always records past 1 minute, but on one trial, it stopped after 2:30 minutes.
12bit 23.976 fps, records continuously  (>3 minutes)

2.8K:
12 bit 23.976 fps, records between 1-2 minutes.
10 bit 23.976 fps, records continuously, orange light.

For the tests, I shot tree branches towards an overcast sky, with the histogram showing between E1.0 and E0.4

Anybody testing this hack with eos m and hdmi out?

How do I do eos-m screen captures? The hdmi output is acting strange:

If I use a phone with usb cam installed, It outputs 2K 1:1 correctly, but in other modes it outputs only the interface overlay, but the video preview is garbled.

If I connect the eos m to the hdmi input of my Asus Computer Monitor, the 2k 1:1 mode doesn't work, 5K ana and 1080p work but freeze, and 2.5K and 2.8K modes output half a squeezed video preview with the second half pink.

So, I went back to the June 2021 build to make sure: only 2k 1:1 works when using the phone as monitor, and using the Asus Monitor, only 5k Ana and 1080P outputs correctly. I still get half a squeezed screen in 2.5k and 2.8k

So it seems like it depends on what is on the hdmi receiving end, because Zeek said it works for him in all modes when using the june 2021 build.

Any ideas or other tests  I could do to help out?