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The display's resolution is less than full HD if I remember correctly (around half), so even with a viewfinder you might find magic zoom (or 10x magnification triggered at zoom - I just found this one recently) useful. Also, what they say is that having a viewfinder helps keeping the camera stable... anyway, I would be very interested to hear how it works out!

Awesome! How did you fix the camera onto the dashboard (I assume)?

I normally recommend the fast prime set for all cinematographers and a lens kit to fill any missing focal lengths.

50mm f/1.4
28mm f/1.8
35mm f/2
85mm f/1.8
all these together will run you a bit over 1.5k (euro)

this however is far from what you want if you're shoting live events. I know what a headache they can be if you are not prepared with the proper equipment

Canon offer a 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM which I was looking to buy to replace the kind lens, unfortunatly this is a EF-S but at least it's well around your budget

If you want a lens that is considered fast do not look at anything with a value higher than f/2.8

Also you need to decide what you need it for specifically, how you do this is to film with the kit lens, where is fails is where you need to improve by upgrade, if it works fine you dont need to upgrade and kit lenses dont shot any different in video over l series lenses (in photography its another story)

I hear sigma also make some good lenses but I can't recommend something I do not own. My friend owns a sigma and his only con is the focus ring is very poor

Thanks for the suggestion! Exactly, I would go for the Sigma if it did had a better focus ring.

When it comes to the shortcomings of the kit lens, my only gripe is it being F/3.5-5.6, and of course I could use a more precise zoom wheel. Build quality is what it is, but at least I don't go out shooting like "oh my god, I got a thousand buck lens on, I don't wanna break this thing..." 

Recommend Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 atleast can also be used on a full frame later on. As the newest version has a very extreme image stabilization and also lately been amping to use f2.8 on most of my shoots as I feel anything lower the DOF is too thin making it to easy for people to get out of focus and have to refocus too much during the shot while f2.8 still have a nice DOF but everything is also much sharper.

Cheers Chungdha! I thought the Tamron 17-50 F/2.8 was APS-C only. Tamron website says it will heavily vignette on a full frame sensor.

How does the zoom ring feel? Is there enough precision (throw) for manual zooming?

Aha, so if you disable audio and Global Draw you can go higher... obviously I have overlooked that detail completely. 

from what Canon posted about the update it has only some translation fixes for italian and portuguese and a fix for a speedlight model (don't remember the model now).
So I vote for Jedi, but who knows for sure?

No, there is definitely a big improvement, I used to get noise in Flaat_10n in the midtones no matter what and now everything is much smoother even in Flaat_11n. Probably there was a setting (Canon custom functions?) somewhere that got re-set when I restored all factory settings for the firmware upgrade. I feel like a very lucky idiot who has just got a much better camera for free...

This is my lucky day I guess 

Updated the thing now to 1.0.2, added RC3 on top of that, everything worked flawlessly!

Funny, 1.0.2 has sharpness turned down on the default picture styles. And... do I really see less noise around at higher ISO-s or someone is playing Jedi mind tricks with me.... 

Actually, RC3 works fine with 1.0.1 ... I have just realized I have never updated the thing...

Hi All,

Better late than never 
Tamas Zsiros, Electrical Engineer from Hungary, currently staying in Stockholm, Sweden.

I do electronic music (glitchy IDM, ambient, with quite some distortion), sound design and audio engineering at night. Everything is CC-licensed and free.
http://weldroid.net

Lately, I have been putting together some videos from those crappy shots I take with my beloved 600D since this March. I have been running ML practically since then from day 4 or 5.

Some examples:

There's also a Vimeo channel if you prefer that:
https://vimeo.com/weldroid

Actually, the difference is very easy to visualize: low FPS-es with FPS override let us choose virtually any VBR levels up to (down to) -16 irrespective of SD card capabilities. So just shoot something with lots of details with -8 and -16 and add some sharpening in post...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4848144/0.png

vs

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4848144/-16.png

This guy here?
http://www.clickok.se/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:4664058

15 MB/s is what... 120 mb/s, so it should be able to handle more than 100 mb/s.

I use Flaat9n / 10n / 11n mainly because the "p" variants push the blues (sky and stuff) into oversaturated cyan-ish territory that results in very artificial-looking images especially after grading (unless the blues are corrected).  These are very close to the "prolost" profile (which is just taking neutral and pulling back on sharpening, contrast and saturation), but with the different Flaat profiles I can optimize the 8 bit encoding to the actual scenario (dynamic range vs. noise).

Awesome!

Back in a day I got eth Sandisk Extreme 30 MB/s:
http://se.farnell.com/sandisk/sd4903/memory-sd-ext-iii-16gb-30mb-s/dp/1782321?CMP=KNC-GSE-FSE-GEN-KWL
I can reach x 1.3 CBR with this, but 1.4 gets a bit unreliable already.

This one claims to be three times as fast:
http://sandisk.com/products/memory-cards/sd/extremepro-uhs-1-95mbs/?capacity=32GB

Any good/bad experiences, or maybe other brand that let you shoot higher bitrate?

Ok here´s the deal:

You got used to zooming... now it´s time for you to get used to NOT zooming.

If you haven´t experienced the awe-inspiring pleasure of walking around with a 50mm 1.4 lens (or a 30mm 1.4 Sigma like mine...) then you're truly missing 3/4 of the fun of being a photographer.

I have the exact same camera as you do. I kept the 18-55 lens for when the going got tough... until I could afford an army of other lenses (which I can as of TOMORROW.)

I got the 30mm Sigma primarily to shoot concert footage in low light and I couldn't be happier. At 1600 ISO and F2 I get crisp... warm video in low light. And in daylight I get video so lean it would make you cry with your 18-55.

And you're talking about having to lug around extra gear? These prime lenses are TINY. (The Canon 50mm 1.8 is even smaller than the sigma 30mm... and much much cheaper.)

At your price range I recommend the Sigma 30mm and a decent 55-250 zoom since you're shooting video. And you might even have enough left over for a wide angle... which would cover all bases... with GOOD glass... and not just long glass.

I know, I have been spoiled... I did try though putting a piece of tape on my zoom playing around with a fixed focal range, it just didn't feel good.  On the other hand I love the shallow DOF and visual quality of the Samyang 35mm / Sigma 30mm (judging from the examples). And I know I won't get a zoom with F1.4...

I have the same camera and a tokina 11-16, its great for wide stuff.  In terms of a replacement for the 18-55 you have a few options, which I have considered myself lately.  There is the sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 which is a pretty good lens, under $400.  Tamron makes a 28-70mm f/2.8 again under 400.  Tokina makes the 16-50mm which is also fast f/2.8 but comes with a bigger price take at around $800.  finally there is the canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L which runs in at $1,200 and is overbudget but very freaking nice however it does not have image stabilization.  Finally dont over look carl zeiss lens.  They are manual but they are superb.  The only one in your budget is their nifty fifty, the planar T 50mm.  It is wicked fast at f/1.8 but you wont get your ultra wides or teles with this guy none the less it would make a great go to lens.

Thanks fo rthe suggestions! I was looking at the Sigma and the Tokina very hard for a week, and noticed the thing about them that put me off (and this I could have easily pointed out if I had the chance to rent/borrow them): focus throw is around 40 degrees on the Sigma, and only  a little bit better on the Tokina. In both cases worse than my kit lens, which can be quite fiddly to do manual focus with. So in terms of a zoom lens, that leaves me with either the EF 24-70 or the EF-S 17-55 IS. I have tried to shoot handheld with IS switched off, and it really was a disaster in terms of image quality, I guess I have too shaky hands...

Thanks for all the insight!
Hmmm, I did overlook the powers of focus peaking... I wouldn't say I can nail focus with it as reliable (yet?) as with digital zooming in 10x, but I'm getting used to it, and it made me think differently about being in focus (in terms of "in focus" meaning a 3d area in front of me rather than one single point).

External monitors, well, that might be something to put on the list, right after some kind of handheld rig (I need something to attach that damn screen to

Inspired by the great response I got at the kit lens upgrade thread I keep bugging with my beginner's questions.

It seems people are happy using full manual lenses for video work. Still, on a real manual lens (where there is no electronic coupling between the lens and the camera, let's say a Samyang 35mm or an old Nikon with an adapter) the only feedback on whether a shot is in focus or not is visual. TBH I sometimes struggle even with magic zoom to get things sharp, and there are times when I realize during editing that I have a shot that is unuseably out-of-focus.

So are there any tricks you can use to get focus right when you have a lens that is all optics without any electronics?

- EVF?
- External monitors?
- Other tricks?

Well, first and foremost: thank you for all the great insight and suggestions!

Some of the answers were - to some extent - a surprise to me, which is exactly why I wrote my post in the first place: I'm in a learning process, and a reality check sometimes can help putting things back to the right perspective.

The monopod is an excellent suggestion: to some extent I already use my lightweight tripod as a monopod sometimes to save time when moving from place to place (having the legs extended but keeping them together one thick "leg")... this is not optimal, and a real monopod would be much more comfortable. One thing I have noticed is that having a collapsed/locked tripod attached to the camera tends to smooth out camera shake quite a bit in a handheld-scenario, due to the added weight, and the ergonomics of the handle.

Thanks for the tips on those primes, I am looking into both the Samyang and the Sigma... in fact based on all of your responses I am starting to realise that if I want really splendid low-light performance, those 1/2.8 fixed aperture lens will probably not give the kind of improvement I am looking for. Also, the zooms (17-50 Sigma and Tokina) seem to have rather short throws on their focus ring (40-50 degrees), in fact even shorter than on my kit lens (60+ degrees).

So my revised plan is:
- stick with the kit lens as a zoom for now, it's a cheap piece of plastic lens, but it seem to have everything I need today: suitable range, good-enough IS and sharpness (at least for video), the only thing missing (at this point) is the low-light performance, and so:

- I'll get a fast prime with good ergonomics: the Samyang 35mm or the Sigma 30mm... which brings up a more specific question regarding these: do you happen to know if any of these lenses can trigger the magic zoom function in ML? I use manual focus 99% of the time, and magic zoom is a very handy feature for me to be able to get a good focus on an LCD screen with just grabbing the zoom wheel and turning it.

I did not want to hijack the other (very similar thread):
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1144.0

I'm currently shooting videos (primarily) with my 600D. I did not listen to good advice and got the 18-55 ISII kit lens with my camera. I would like to upgrade (mainly to improve low-light performance), budget is around 1K, and - as I do a lot of handeld stuff - I need optical stabilization.

I see two routes:
Plan A: get ONE ~1/2.9 constant aperture EF-S zoom lens with a range similar to the kit lens. Sigma, Tamron, maybe even the Canon (but I really suspect I'm going to be ripped off if I get the Canon).

Pros:
- I got used to being able to zoom, I'm not sure if I can live without
- Stabilization
- no swapping lenses, one compact package

Cons:
- not sure if this will be a huge improvement over the kit lens (people's opinion are so different in this regard)
- EF-S means less future compatible if I ever upgrade to something that doesn't work with EF-S

Plan B:
Keep the kit lens as a basis, and get a fast 20-30 mm-ish fast prime for low light and maybe a Tokina 11-16 for wider-angle timelapses, etc...

Pros:
- better low-light performance when using the prime (one stop)
- better optical performance when using the prime
- at least the prime can be future compatible (and the Tokina a bit maybe)

Cons:
- lens swapping slowing me down: I don't do any scripted work, so fast response time is essential
- more gear, more to carry around (and I can not carry around much due to some back problems)
- I have tried to set my kit lens to 30mm to see if I can live with a fixed focal length and it felt rather "claustrophobic"

If I put all this together, I actually lean towards plan A. Not being a seasoned photo/video veteran (my primary art form is music), I have tried to educate myself from the net and the general feeling is that zooms are looked down and real men uses primes and swaps lenses or just sticks to a standard lens. But still the engineer in me assesses and comes back with plan A.

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions. I was looking around the place I live, and it is very expensive and almost impossible to rent these kind of lenses for just a weekend.

(This is the kind of thing I usually do: https://vimeo.com/weldroid)

Just a thought/question: with old non-AF lenses there is no feedback to the body about focus information, so it is impossible to trigger magic focus by focusic manually right?

Where did SET+Maindial(PLay) options ended up? Prefs/Image review settings?

Looks nice and clean, +1 for getting rid of the simple menu, maybe the user customized menu could replace that one...

May I ask what is the ultimate goal by removing functions?
- optimizing the code (reducing complexity to improve maintainability)?
- optimizing the menu (user friendliness, no more space for possible new features)?
- both?

That's good to know. There is huge potential in matrix mode (on 60D it is technically possible to move the focus box around at full speed - 30fps). There are still many details to sort out (the biggest one being memory - allocating large blocks of RAM is possible (up to 160 MB), BUT interferes with normal shooting).

It's on the todo list for 2.4.

It would be fantastic to have less delay between frames (that somewhat limits the usability of the current matrix shots). I'm on a 600D though...

Instead of silent pics, I highly recommend FPS override for timelapse.

For picture style controls it's true, not all cameras let you preview adjustments in realtime. 5D2 and 60D do, so those users may find picture style controls redundant.

Picture style controls I could probably live without, but I prefer the current implementation. Separate settings for stills/video are completely useless to me though (I always shoot stills in RAW).

FPS override: true, and I am starting to use that more often, but at least the matrixing modes are very useful, because these let me do high resolution timelapses which I can use for panning/zooming kind of shots without needing to move the camera.