Messages

BTW
i want to ask developers of magic lantern

would you do the same thing fro Nikon d7000 on raw video?

there is one guy who hacked it for raw video
but just like 1.5 fps for 10 seconds only

i think its gona be too long for him to do it alone
http://nikonrumors.com/2013/07/06/nikon-d7000-hacked-to-record-liveview-raw-video.aspx/

i ask because i have canon 50d and nikon d7000

and of coz the SD card is limited to whatever speed it is 20 mb or 40 mb

but the image quality i think it can be better than canons

TBH the only time you need worry about this is if you shoot with a full frame camera and an APS-C and want identical shots. I never worry about it. It's too much of a headfuck. I can get very shallow DOF on an F1.4 on the 50D that's too shallow to use and impossible to keep something moving in focus.

if you worry about difference in depth of field between full frame and APS-C crop cameras (like canon 50d)
this is not the case

coz there you got what?

canon 5d mark iii 50 mm gives true f1.8
canon 50d 50 mm in reality gives f2.8

hey thats not bad at all!
we dont worry of it.
with 50 mm f 1.4 even better - f 2 on canon 50 d

but when you do like 5x and 10x zoom this is whole different world

now your 50 mm f1.8 is freaking f8 on x5 and f16 on x10

i will make this shots tomorrow and show you guys a real example with Nikon 50 1.8
which is known as sharpest lens on DSLR market

What about a wider lens than 50mm? Already a problem with a 1.6 factor so you pretty much need a superwide for this type of thing.

yeah i covered this on previous page

actually to have wide focal length doesnt help you to have narrow depth of field

coz for long focal length you need kinda any f stop value and you have good thing (beside distance)

and for wide angle - really imposible to have narrow depth of field

coz if u wana know how does this counts

lets say 50 f1.8

divide that u get around 27.5 value depth of field

now we take 18 f1.8 you get 10 value

it means not narrow at all

more the value - shallower is DOP

ps thats why i used the opposite way
and made use of this thing
by doing a super tele zoom shooting on 300 mm f5.6
guess what? the value of it is around 55

and thats even better than 50 1.8 like twice

@Monti - It's a tricky concept to get your head around but DOF does not change when you punch between crop and non-crop because there is no optical difference between the two modes other than framing. It is still seeing the same pixels but in normal mode 2/3rds are thrown away through line-skipping with the remaining pixels brought back together. Of course, if you reposition and refocus you will have affected DOF because you moved further away from the subject. At least, that's how I understand things but it fries my brain to think about it.

yeah i am right
and you got it when you said moved further away from the subject

and that is what im talking about

that is depth of field actually

what about the lens parameters - of coz they remain the same

but to fit into crop frame you have to move further
and this is how your depth of field multiplied to eternity

and you forgetting about narrow DOP forever

Does the DOF change when you zoom in on a cr2?

yeah well let me think about it...

we talking about framing the scene isnt it?

so lets say i shoot a person head

my depth of field is like from his nose to his ear

that is shallow one.

now if we zoom in in cr2 we get what?

head is choped half and we need to reframe it

when we reframe it what happens?

depth of field is not narrow anymore

now my depth of field is whole head and much more

not as shallow as it was when i frame just nose and ear

why is that?

because crop mode means 50 mm becomes 250 mm

now i have to shoot from distance not 4 meters but like 20 meters to get kinda same framing

and 20 meters gives me what? huge fat bulky depth of field that i can even bring a bus into it

p.s. of coz u dont get head shot on 50 mm from 4 meters
but u got the point

No, the opposite.

BTW, DOF in crop mode is exactly the same as it would be in non-crop when talking about raw video.

yeah well how does that been worked out?

to my understanding
crop mode multiplies the f stop value for depth of field

Yes, but you'll need something like a 12mm focal length to get 50mm full-frame equivalent in 1:1

Basically, multiply your lens focal length x4 and you'll be 'roughly' correct when the APS-C and raw crop factors are taken into account

and thats an idea Andy600!

so 18-35 f1.8 sigma lens comes into the game

first part 18 mm it is going to be 28 mm f2.8 on normal and like 85 mm f 8 on crop x5 mode 200 mm f 16 x10 mode
double it with 35 mm gives you 50 mm f2.8 on normal and 180 mm f 8 on crop x 5 and 400 mm f 16 x10 mode

the second one is more narrow depth of field like twice than first one
coz focal length increase and the f stop remains

@oc_masta
important aspect is depth of field must be narrow for filmic scenes

i suggest also Rokinon (Samyang) fish eye 8 mm f3.5 lens which is around 40 mm and 80 mm on crop x5 and x10
but depth of field really goes off probably...


how you going to manage it with super wide angle lens and slow apperture in crop mode?

Makes me wonder why most people seem to be neglecting the full hd crop mode on here?
Is there a reason why most people are opting to record with the lower resolution, aliasing and moire filled full sensor mode?

yeah i covered that few pages ago

there is huge advantage in crop x10 mode on Nikon 70-300 mm VR ED lens on canon 50d raw full hd video

that is equivalent of 3000 mm lens on full frame camera

that is more than anything exist

great for sports and wildlife and candid shoots far subjects

however there is no VR working
so probably if you use high end canon telephoto lens with VR would make even more sense

Not maybe, it's actually a fact.

if you mean that analog ISO on canon 50d is 200-1250 and the rest is digital amplified
then we talking about different things...

i will test that thing morning outdoors and share results

until then no point to decide whether it is this or that...

That's because you gain nothing by going to ISO 3200.

yeah maybe...

anyway i have to play more with this things

and its really need skills

this is something more difficult than what normal photographers get used to

Try going outside

the thing is
i try to shoot on 3200 iso

and ETTR brings it to 1600 iso

so not quite sure that the low light is the issue...

Awesome! Tyvm

didnt get it

does 50d autofocus in live view?

ETTR has settings like set lowest shutter from main dial... auto expo has to be set up too... my lens can't do f1.8.

oh okay i found that setting for minimum shutter
i set it to 1/130 (1/125) so its cool now
not freaking me with 1/15 anymore

however didnt found how to put ISO there
its coming always on 1600 iso

the auto expo is so complicated
couldnt solve it out

so here is another example i made with new shutter speed

the advantage of this function is hilarious and good
but its need some skills to master it

ETTR has settings like set lowest shutter from main dial... auto expo has to be set up too... my lens can't do f1.8.

oh yeah? i have to learn that...
otherwise really killing

i try to go in function menu but didnt find such tweaks
maybe search later

this is dual iso test on ETTR

okay i tested ETTR thing

very frustrating experience

the ISO going up and down as it wish
hard to do something

shutter speed goes to 1/15 by itself

dont know which mode to use
should it be manual or apperture priority or what?

but got one good example though

this is it




also tested ETTR with Dual ISO

show it later

im going to test out the ETTR function soon

curious about it kinda

it may give high shutter speed in photo mode without bumping ISO over 800
or maybe we should use it in Dual ISO mode?

then put the shutter speed even higher...

for those who are not familiar with photography -
high shutter speed gives a tack sharp images without blur or washed out

but it needs high ISO (light sensitivity) that usually kills color depth, dynamic range (contrast) and clarity (noise grain comes).

so to shoot on high shutter speed without going bad maybe good to ETTR it instead of high ISO it?
i know some people do shoot on high ISO on raw underexposed (dark) then bringing up image from shadows in program
but with ETTR can be even better

also if high ISO it maybe ETTR saves it kinda too...

Sorry about the huge quotes but I get the impression that Silkway and Monti are the same person or perhaps twins.

Especially if you look at Silkway's last login day/time and Monti's registration day/time.

yeah coz the moderator blocked Silkway for being too haarch in critic about others works

Now we are talking! Hehe...

@Monti - I appreciate your input here but perhaps we're starting to stray too far from the intended subject matter of the thread which is raw video on the 50D. The cinematography, color, grading, aesthetics, film and other areas of film making are probably worthy of their own thread (maybe there are similar threads here on the ML forum?).

Incidentally, although you are correct with your observations about contrast, colour, framing etc, there are also many other examples where DPs and colourists will do the exact opposite and go for a low contrast/desaturated look and not stick to the rule of thirds at all. As I said, it's purely subjective and individual but obviously it's good to know the theory and always educate yourself.

You did actually make me think more about my grading TBH. I still like what I did because it fits the mood and look I intended, but also I know I can push myself further and be more creative with colour. It's great that raw video lets us explore these possibilities properly.

yeah i went far coz just answered the previous commenter

and also my intention of pushing this subjects is to open up raw video subject
as those who shoot films in hollywood are doing it on raw video as meant to be on canon 50d

so i just highlighted that if someone shooting on magic/tragic lantern raw video
then it makes sense to follow up the highest standarts of cinematography
if people learn basic of their video job then they may make use of all magic/tragic lantern feautures

otherwise targeting on something small makes the limited thoughts on the rest of job

must push forward
and not to stop on something obvious and simple as can be made on anything else

ps i mean developers work hard here and you also complile new features day by day
it is just not fare not to make use of it in post production

@Andy600
your previous color grading photos is not opening anymore
something happen with links

Personally, I like the look of Andy's original picture. Looks more filmic. A bit like Velvia with the magenta and stuff but obviously flattened as Velvia is much more punchy and contrasty (Always thought Velvia was a bit Garish outside of landscape and fashion anyway).

As for Monti's looks, I think the first one might be more of a music video look, second is a bit "walking dead" although might work for a commercial centered around domestic abuse. The third option looks like you've gone mental with Nik colour effects. Definitely Final Fantasy and I'd like to see the video out of curiosity.

Guess the key thing with grading (as with every other creative decision) is to have a direction and a point to doing it, not just because you can. My favorite shot is probably the air ducts, very filmic looking, although the shoes look great too. Hmmm, I'm in the mood for shooting now... Where's my camera.

if you want to know what is filmic look

look at this new movie from germany with Till Shweiger

and yes, i see lots of colors there and its not flat



also for those of you

who didnt learnt composition

check this filmic look camera composition on rule of thirds

it is aimed into the eye section to attract our view there


and yes
when they shot this scene they told to Till Shweiger to hold and not move his head

Does it mean ETTR works in photo mode or has wider range in LV now? I can't check myself as I'm abroad without computer — some heavy use of Dual ISO and Auto Expose here

basicly ETTR (EXPOSURE TO THE RIGHT)
means all your shots will be exposure compensation up for 1.33 stops
that means your shots will be brighter than normal

but when you normalize it in your programm it give much less noise
than if you shoot normal raw files

yeah baby)

color grading parade started

Thanks @Supermac - The Airduct shot was a complete fluke. The light was perfect 

I did have a little play in Resolve today for an alternate look (just to try and educate myself a bit) and came up with this:

Grade #2



It was around 16 nodes using power windows and qualifiers. I need to get better at this obviously.




Full size: http://imgbox.com/g/gV925C5RSp

oh yeah much better)
now you are talking hehe

well im also not using all those crap you mentioned

im just working in photography area mostly

and when we come to subject of getting such awesome video from canon 50d raw

i just question myself

why people push themselve hardly to do magic lantern

and then not using its potencial in post production...

p.s. btw u mentioned a major point why people cant or not doing color grading most of the time

coz its not in their head

coz to draw you have to see it in your head

and if you not artist then there is nothing to follow after

thats the key of why people stuck for something and not going further maybe....

however personally i woud personally do this color grading to your footage


or if i want a final fantasy look


any of those look pretty to me

and the one you did looks unfinished and flat

however i agree that for certain areas your look is what has to be there

just for me the subject of raw video on canon 50d asks to be something more than "filmic look"

btw all this examples i did not on raw file
it was just screenshot from vimeo video

so not even jpg