Messages

EOS m has
5184x3456 pixels on 22,2mmx14,7mm

with 1280x720 crop mode you use 5184/1280 ~ 24,69% of the horizontal and 720/3456 ~ 20,83% of vertical pixels.
14,7mm*0,2083 ~ 3,06mm
22,2mm*0,2469 ~ 5,48mm

sqrt((3,06mm)²+(5,48mm)²) ~ 6,27mm

if my calculations are correct you'll use a diagonal of ~ 6,27mm with 720p

43.2mm/6,27mm ~ 6,89 <- this should be the effective crop factor

compared to bmpcc which has a super 16mm diagonal of 14,54mm and 2.97 crop factor, it's a really tiny sensor. less than 1/4 of effective sensor size.

@1%:
since dual iso does also work on 6d and 5d ii, is there any chance that it may also come to eos m? or does it just has a single amplifier?

@JohnBarlow:
the large upload of the test raw files from yesterday is now finished.

@markr041:
looks nice. it would be interessting if you could get more frames.. as i wrote it stopped for me after 2897 frames...

@Rush:
"aliasing and moire comes from the gaps of lineskipped pixels"

afaik, that's not true... any references?
it's all about frequencies... if you've too high frequencies (not the frequency of the light, but the singal frequency) for your sensor, then you'll get aliasing. check the "Nyquist theorem". http://redwood.berkeley.edu/bruno/npb261/aliasing.pdf
it's a gernal problem of sampling analog singals.
of course line skipping makes it even worse, because it heavily reduces the sampling frequency.
the only reason why you don't see much aliasing at 100% is that the lenses aren't that sharp and act like a low-pass filter.
=> sharper lense = more aliasing

it was posted by qsara on page 19 of this thread. but the qsara account seems to be deleted.

as the video says it's 1664x464 30fps non crop mode. you can't get that resolution anymore, but 1664x456, if you don't need continuous recording at 24 fps, or 1664x428 (1600x438, if you prefer that aspect ratio) for continuous recording. as the video is recorded at 30fps i think the 21secs was the maximum that could be recorded on that resolution and framerate.

as qsara said on page 19 it's recorded at 100iso. there are not much more camera parameters... i guess medium focal length and aperature wide open. there is no way see what shutter speed is used without motion in the video, but with 30fps normally 1/50 or 1/64 is used.

in post it got unsqeezed and some color correction (i guess whitebalance, added saturation, added contrast and it looks like a warmify filter or something like that was added). since there was no dot remover at that time and it's hard to spot any dots, i think the dots got removed with a dead pixel filter in the raw editor.

everything just guesses, don't really know what qsara did. but if you tell us what exactly from the video you try to achieve maybe anyone finds a solution.

anyone has experience with the SanDisk SDSDQX-064G-U46A... it's a microSD, but benchmarks look nice and price is very moderate.
i really want to know if we can get more speed (maybe really 36mb/s continuously) with a faster sd-card than sandisk extreme 45mb/s.

or maybe anyone has the 45mb/s sandisk extreme and the 95mb/s and can compare them directly in the eos m.

@JohnBarlow:
i'm uploading some raw files for you at the moment. 3gigs... it may take some time. as soon as it's ready there are 11 raw files. resolutions 1280x720, 1024x768 and 1088x816.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ofaqeiwwjg0xdrw/HAYYgd9cXk

there are also some h.264 shots with 18mm crop and 55mm non crop for comparison and a 1280x720 24p webm file with the processed raw video files. no real post processing on the webm... just used the default canon raw curve to get some contrast into the image, no noise reduction or sharpening.
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/k8fe71ga1kiw57o/720.webm

720p raw looks much better than i thought. and so much better than h.264 1080p, even without processing Oo
but of course i could have done h.264 better with reduced saturation, contrast and sharpening... it's auto picture style.

can anyone check if faster card really makes a difference to get continuously 1280x720 24p recording?

it stopped for me after 2897 frames...
6d may have more buffer? maybe if the speed slightly varyies the eos m just can't compensate it with the small buffer?

Its like 6D controller.. so sandisk 45MB/s is the fastest..

and it stopped for me with sandisk 45MB/s.

@JohnBarlow:
i really don't think that the 95mb/s card would give you any benefit.

@feureau:
technically 100% crop doesn't mean no aliasing. i read that multiple times, but it's still a digital measurement, which means, if you're signal (the light that comes from the lense) has more detail than your sensor resolution you'll get aliasing effects.
since sensors have such high resolutions and lenses aren't that sharp, it's hard to get any aliasing with 100% crop. and it's definitely much better than without crop.

@rush:
have you tested it or trusted the ml prediction?

@JohnBarlow:
you can record h.264 in crop mode. looks bit softer than h.264 in non crop mode, since it's a 100% crop.
check the video i posted few posts above:
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/p1qo960nrhmcd7g/crop_vs_non_crop.webm
the 3rd part (sec 10-15) is h.264 55mm in non crop mode and 4th (sec 15-20) is h.264 18mm in crop mode.

I  got 2897 Frames at 1280x720 24p, with 32gb sandisk extreme 45MB/s (=> the sd-controller is the bottleneck).
i'll do the flower testshot in few mins... just have to finish some work first.

@gary2013:
Try to remove the dots with this tool:
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/m0bxzd23p4zow8o/PinkDotRemover_2013_08_08.zip

you need to have java jre installed to run the tool. (you can find it there, if it isn't already installed http://java.com/en/download/index.jsp)
if java is installed unzip the PinkDotRemover and doubleclick onto the PinkDotRemover.jar file.
to remove dots just drag and drop the RAW or the DNGs files onto the white area at the left of the tool. you can also use the "Add files"-Button, instead of drag and drop. then select EOSM or Crop Mode from the dropdown.
you should have two types of video:
1. dots are all over the image + image is not vertically squeezed (=> Crop Mode)
2. dots are just in the center + image is vertically squeezed (=> EOSM)

be sure to select "interpolate" at the radio buttons below the dropdown.
then click "Convert Files". If you've added a RAW-file it gets overwritten (so you should make a copy first), if you added DNGs you should find in the same folder copys of the DNG files with a _ prefix. the dots should be gone in that new files.

cloud storages work very well to post images, video etc. for example dropbox, box.com, google drive (if you've already a google account), skydrive (if you've already microsoft/hotmail account), etc etc...
or upload it to a file bin service like this, as long as the files aren't to large (max 20MB):
http://www.qfpost.com/

as noise filter i prefer neat video. there are after effects and premiere plugins for it and it can be testet with a free demo.
but there are also a lot of other noise filters, also free ones, you can use. just do any noise filtering on raw video, since it has a lot of noise, even at iso 100.

@JohnBarlow:
ok, i'll send you some samples tomorrow...

@gary2013:
could you upload a sample... it's hard to guess what's going wrong, without seeing the result.
do you have removed the af dots? is it really noise or blue and pink dots (small crosses)? af dots go all over the image in crop mode and from left to right, but just in the middle in non crop mode.
raw video is btw always more noisy than h264, since h264 is already noise filtered in camera. you should use a good noise filter.

1024x768 (31,4 mb/s) or maybe 1088x816 (35,5 mb/s)... i would choose 1024x768 to be sure that it doesn't stop or skip frames after some minutes. the few extra pixels at 1088x816 shouldn't make much difference in quality. ml says continous recording ok, but for me it stopped after ~2 mins with 1088x816.
i can upload some 1024x768 sample shots tomorrow if they may help to judge the quality.

a test i did today:
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/p1qo960nrhmcd7g/crop_vs_non_crop.webm

1. 18mm raw video crop mode (no sharpening, some saturation added)
2. 55mm raw video non crop mode (no sharpening, some saturation added), @handbanana: that's why i said, that non crop mode is just not usable
3. 55mm h.264 auto picture style
4. 18mm h.264 video crop mode auto picture style
5. same as 1. but with a lot sharpening
6. same as 3. with the same sharpening as 5.
7. same as 1. with noise reduction, additional saturation and a lot of sharpening

i should have added 3 more pixels to the letterbox at top and bottom to cut the distorted rows. -.-
what the video imho shows:
- h.264 crop mode is bit softer than h.264 but still usable and of course there is much less aliasing
- crop mode raw video on eos m looks really great... less aliasing than h.264 non crop mode and flat image that has imho a very cinematic look out of the box.
- again, raw non crop mode imho isn't usable!!
- h.264 also doesn't has perfect edges (if that lowers the expectations what you should get out of the raw)
- you can add a lot more sharpening to the raw video than to the h.264 in post, without overdoing it and getting to bad sharpening artifacts. this also leads to a sharper overall result.

EDIT:
something totally went wrong with my export from yesterday. hadn't really checked it after export and expected it to be nearly the same i saw in the editor. but as i watched the exported video today i saw that the quality was much worse, because the editing software exported 24i instead of 24p.
i did a fresh export and updated the link...

@cameron12x:
press set in the submenu and then turn the maindial or press left or right on the main dial to adjust the setting.

try tapping on the screen while the intervalometer option is highlighted in the ml menu. you should get into the submenu to configure the interval duration, an timer offset to start the recording, a time limit to stop recording and the settings for expo- and focusramp.

ah ok if you really wanted the exact 2.39 ratio, it's correct to record it. i just prefer to record maximum possible and if i decide in post, that i want a more horizontal aspect ratio it's easy to add a letterbox. the unused pixels can be helpful for finetuning vertical position in that case.
it won't btw use the "whole sensor" anyways. the pixels are just picked from the whole sensor area, instead of the center. but it does just use 753408 of the 17915904 pixels. ~4,2% of the sensor.
crop mode has all the benefits from non crop mode raw, but additionally looks really great. no jagging edges, much less aliasing. the downside is of course the additional crop factor that makes it hard to get wide angle shots or narrow depth of field.
try some shots with fine details, far away objects or hard edges and compare h.264, crop mode raw and non crop mode raw. then you'll see how much better crop mode works.

@gary2013:
non crop with max resolution and 2.39 aspect ratio is 1728x436.
the maximum continuous record speed you can get with eos m is ~35-36mb/s. and you'll get that speed with all fast sd cards, since the sd controller is much slower than the max write speeds of high speed sd cards.
if you want to be sure that the video doesn't stop even for longer recordings you imho shouldn't record above 34mb/s, even if it tells you that continuous recording works.
my prefered settings are: 1408x600 (2.35:1) in crop mode at 23.98fps (no fps override since it isn't needed in crop mode) 33,7mb/s and i use 32gb sandisk extreme 45mb/s card.

@handbanana:
don't know how 60D videos exactly look, but on my eos m videos without crop just aren't usable. why haven't you used a more vertical aspect ratio like 2.20:1 (32,7mb/s) or even 2:1 (36,1mb/s) should be possible with 1728 24fps.
do you want to show us the video?

@cameron12x:
intervalometer works for me just like expected.

if anyone wants to try a current pink dot remover test version:
http://dl.dropbox.com/s/m0bxzd23p4zow8o/PinkDotRemover_2013_08_08.zip

new features:
* add files via drag and drop
* remove files from list via "del" key
* eosm dot removal data for non crop mode again (it isn't really tested, just the 1472x500 resolution for Dark-Master is tested. if you find any resolution that doesn't work please report it!)
* renamed dot data files. use CropMode for eos-m or 650d in crop mode. use EOSM for eos-m raw video without crop mode and for silent dngs.
* last dropdown selection gets saved that you don't have to select it each time you start the program

since it's based on current version all the latest changes from foorgol are also in that version. you can remove dots directly from the raw files not just the dngs and other improvements. check the 650d pdr thread for details http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6658.125

@Dark-Master: don't think that there will be usable non crop raw video on the eos m. the method canon scales the image down (by just skipping lines and rows, instead of interpolation) combined with the reduced vertical resolution from the sqeeze factor leads to miserable quality. but i don't know, maybe 1% can tell you if there is any hope.
i also had problems with the extreme cropfactor in crop mode first, but you can get used to it. especially with the new 11-22mm lense or a speedbooster (as soon as one for eos m is available) it should be possible to get wide enough angle of view for most situations. since it's cropped from the center and wide angle lenses are mainly distorted at the edges there shouldn't be much barrel distortion or stuff like that with wide angle lenses. have tested it with sigma 10-20mm, but don't use it much, since it doesn't has IS.

Sorry, I missed the post.

I used 1472x500.
Is what you mean by crop mode the big white rectangle? I always record with white rectangle on.

Thank you.

you'll find the crop mode option in the ml movie menu "Movie crop mode". what sucks is that you'll get an additional crop factor of  ~3 (it's a 100% crop on the sensor), therefore you'll get with 18mm a slightly narrower view than with 55mm. so you can't do wide angle shots with that option. but without that option the raw videos do have a imho useless quality. with that option enabled the quality is quite nice.
i'll create the dot removal data for non crop mode, but i don't think that anyone wants to use it.

@Dark-Master:
please read the post just above your last post.

@Dark-Master & Canon eos m:
about pink dot removal:
do you use "Movie crop mode"? there isn't dot removal data for non crop mode at the moment. since non crop mode videos do have totally useless quality. if anyone really want to use non crop mode raw video i can add the dot removal data for it.
Just send me a dng that doesn't work and i'll check what's going wrong.

Hi Mixer2 - Know where I can fetch a latest copy of pinkdot remover. Mine got corrupted and the link above does not have a copy anymore. Cheers!

Hi, it's not the most recent, but that's still the version i use (still the same link. it should work...):
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/77bkw4u9nh7dt4d/PinkDotRemover_2013_07_15.zip

there is a newer version, but there were changes for the 650d which aren't optimized for eos m so far. since i'm very busy right now and the old version works great i didn't spent much time for the dot remover development. but there will be a new version soon.

bootflag is still set from prior version...