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Hi All - is this spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16cgnRivbUv7nA9PUlCLmLdir3gXdIN3pqzCNAAybepc/edit#gid=5 current, or if not, where is the latest chart of current ML RAW video capabilities by camera?

Thanks and happy new year.

Audionut, I can see by your youthful tenor that maybe you haven't realized that there's rarely any salutary effect to that kind of posting.

Obviously when you are developing something, anything in this world, it is useful to speak about it with honesty, candor, and constructive criticism, and view your own work and associations with modesty. The difference between RAW and h264 is clear to see, and it comes at a cost in time, among other things. There's no need to freak out about a little skepticism toward the value of it. If this topic was not interesting to discuss, people would not have been posting. They have.

I was being facetious.  The point is still valid though depending on your own opinion of encoder quality.

If Canon provided raw out of the box, there wouldn't be PP problems.  Simply because there would be a bunch of well paid devs making sure there was a workflow that mum and dad could use.  That's not a personal attack on your ability, simply an educated guess!

If Canon provided RAW out of the box, it wouldn't cost $469, but if you want RAW out of the box, you can get it. It costs more than $469. Not an attack on your grasp of market economics, just an educated guess that you've got skin in the development game, making you a bit sensitive maybe. I find ML to be worth every penny. Pardon me while I go change the ribbon on my typewriter, I can't get my brain around this whole workflow 

The upshot of raw is that you get data that hasn't been compressed by the worlds worst H.264 encoder.  Throw more bits at it, she'll be right!

Not sure what you mean by that, but for the world's worst h.264 encoder, it ain't bad. When you look at everything one has to go through to get RAW footage in your timeline from a 650d, it's clear to see why Canon doesn't offer it out of the box. If it did Just Work that way, well better quality would be... er, better. And it will be, in less time than it takes to shoot a feature. Partly thanks to these developers 'motivating' manufacturers by creating demand. I appreciate ML mostly for lighting a fire under Canon's ass.

Upshot seems to be that RAW offers an improvement in picture quality that can be described in different ways -- but dynamic range, it ain't. Occam's razor applies.

I can see a use for it, for example in capturing some beautiful establishing shots in a documentary, where most material in less-controlled circumstances will look good in h.264. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed with the programming skills and initiative evidenced at ML.

Appreciate the comments and tips.

I believe I should be able to get a lot more out of shadows -- just like comparing a RAW still photo with a compressed jpeg -- as illustrated in this well-circulated example with the campground:

http://petapixel.com/2013/08/08/a-look-at-the-pros-and-cons-of-shooting-raw-vs-h-264/

I'll work on my process more. Only been messing with this a week or so. My workflow, such as it is, is outlined in my prior post:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9743.0

I have been experimenting with Darktable and RAWtherapee in linux, and have been disappointed that I can't pull more range out of my images, there's a lot of noise and breaking up.

That said, my only motivation is like everything with linux: the thrill of the hunt, just making it work against difficulties can be fun. To a point. You're right the 650d is hobbled. Although I'm getting better results from PinkDotRemover today. Frustrating that the t2i is better.

I'm posting just to get a feel for whether it's understood that low light performance is not as good as some other systems or I'm missing something. If RAW is noisy off the camera, what isn't?

here's an interesting comparison of the t2i in h.264 presumably vs. the Blackmagic camera:
https://vimeo.com/59707013

Perhaps I am spoiled already, but I look at the results and wonder why I am going through all this processing. I have to do some direct comparison of RAW to h.264. For me the rationale for RAW would be low-light indoors.

Thanks for the suggestions. I am already shooting as far "to the right" as I can, accepting some blown out highs. I am commenting simply on results before any processing. Any tips on post processing welcome.

Hi All -- New to experimenting with RAW video, and so far I can't tell if mine looks any good or not. I am using the latest stable build of ML on a Canon t4i/650d at 720x1280 24fps.

Specifically, I am disappointed with indoor low-light results. Even shooting with a fast lens at 100ISO, I find my results grainy/noisy. I was expecting to be able to bring up the lows, and it is just not there. It seems that the RAW video gives good dynamic range in a well-lit outdoor shot but that's it.

Am I missing some critical basic setting? Does anyone have any tips, or examples? I would/will post my bad results but for now have maxed my vimeo quota.

Best regards.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5howc9g0gj8rud/dark2.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5howc9g0gj8rud/dark.png

Thank you for posting this. What about Cinelerra or Kino? What is PinkDotRemover?

I haven't looked at Cinelerra / Kino in a while. I have found kdenlive to be the only useful Linux editor for me, last time I looked into it. The process of importing stills as a sequence into a video file is the same as with After Effects, so I thought I would mention that. In the spirit of 100% open-source.

PinkDotRemover is necessary for the t4i/650d and some other (?) Canons, although the term understates the severity of the problem.

I could look at integrating the pink dot removal in the MlRawViewer processing.

1. That, of course, would be super-useful
2. The only thing that could be better would be if your app was integrated as some kind of plugin in Kdenlive, so the whole process was in one application. Like import RAW, pinkdotremove, and encode as prores, in Kdenlive.
3. However, the "red dot removal" app has so far been inadequate for making useful footage. Mine still looks rubbish, in different ways in different shots. I am sure that continued interest in development will cure that over time.

Did you download a static build of ffmpeg from http://ffmpeg.org/download.html ? The Ubuntu supplied "ffmpeg" (actually avconv) isn't suitable.

1. I'm sure the problem is on my side. I downloaded a static version of ffmpeg and put it in the folder with the mlrawviewer. The encoder now runs, but the .mov file shows large rectabgular blocks. Do I need to update Ubuntu's ffmpeg from the static file somehow? How so?

Also, if you could upload a very short RAW or MLV from the 650d to somewhere

2. I am uploading 15 sec a) RAW video file b) .mov file processed by your encoder and c) still shot of the blocky look in my build, for your development purposes.
3. I will PM you a dropbox link when it's done uploading.

4. Happy New Year!

Darktable! Yes, thanks, edited.

I think I don't have rights to post images here yet (?) -- I am uploading it to vimeo.

Now I am looking at whether there is noise introduced in the conversion to TIFFs, but there is somewhat of a pink haze around highlights in the original DNGs.

I am not (visually) clear on the distinctions between the terms aliasing, moire, artifacts, etc.

[any]

Hello all - Just wanted to volunteer a workflow that Just Works for me on Ubuntu 12.10, using all open source software, since I don't want to spend any money on (or illegally download) After Effects, Premier, Lightroom, etc. or use Windows.

Nothing new here, I just thought I would put it in one place since it wasn't there for me a few days ago. This is for those of us with Pink Dot cameras.

1. Use EyeFrame to convert RAW->DNGs (because it Just Works with Wine in Ubuntu)
2. Use PinkDotRemover on DNGs (it only wants to start in a terminal for me in 12.10; then it works)
3. Use Darktable to do a little color correction. Select all images and export as TIFF
4. Use Kdenlive; Import by Project>Add Slideshow clip. Select first TIFF from folder. Use frame duration, 1 frame.
5. Kdenlive> do your cutting and render to an mp4 or avi or whatever.

It works. But I still have some pink crap. If anyone knows an alternative way to use a better codec to export from Kdenlive, that would be great to know. The mlviewer app works great for me for playback, but prores encoding messed up, and I needed the PinkDotRemover for my 650d.

Best regards

Sort of halfway works but unless there's a way to go RAW > DNGs > pink dot removal > RAW > .mov ....

A fun exercise for a couple days but far from usable. After all this h.264 looks lovely.

Thanks very much for the response. This might be beyond my abilities to set up but it certainly looks good. I will try it.

Since I am using the t4i/650d I might have a problem with the "pink dot" removal intermediary step? Everything I have seen out of my RAW images is garbage so far.

Hi All -- I'm noo to this and trying to get my first RAW video sample from 650d to see if it's worth it.

Is there any way to convert dng files to something usable without After Effects or Premier? I use Ubuntu 12.10 and also have an old Windows XP build. I have been editing h.264 in kdenlive which works very well for me. I have been reading the workflow posts for many hours, and don't see a way to do it with open source software.

Any way to convert dng's to something I can cut?