Messages

[the]

Film-making is the most team-oriented artistic endeavor.  <snip>  If the devs and most users enjoy things the way they are, then by all means, rock on!  When I have free time and it's for fun, I'm here!

I full understand your background needs and perspective. I get that ML could also fit into your workflow if it just X, and that (guessing) it is so close, but no there.

I also agree anybody that contributes, is a equal contributor. At work we use the Belbin profiles system, and their are completer finishers, and team players, and there are team coordinators, all of which I am not, and I'm guess the core dev's are not ether. To get a big task done need teams that are balanced.

Film making, like game coding, sounds fun, I bet there is crazy competition to get the job done (and for cheap).

Simeon, I am happy you have been able to escape those Nikon fascists and speak freely here in the ML forum (JUST JOKING!).

Thanks, all those Nikon fan-boys, so tiring... ;-)

Seriously, I was not arguing that developers should "pick the bugs off their fruit".  Only that, to continue that analogy, you may get sick of watching your co-workers start ignoring your fruit and never see people enjoy your garden as much as they could, if you put in a little bug-picking effort.  Yes, in the beginning of any hacking effort, you really can't worry about user happiness.  It should be enough that you enjoy it, and the few who share your interests.

But I believe, just an opinion, that ML has got to the point where its "coolness" is wearing off.  Again, no reason a developer should stop doing what they enjoy, even if only one person is following them.

I don't believe offering money for a feature is in any way disrespectful or wrong.  Devs don't have to take it up.  As Gibrain said, "Work is love made visible".  I believe the OP was expressing his love for ML in that way. 

Again, and again, and again,  It's a trade-off.  You may say you don't care if someone is following your Nikon work, let's say.  And you probably don't.  But you may care in the future, I am only pointing out that possibility--for whatever reason.

Finally, we rarely do something because we think of it out of thin air.  Most hacking is a reaction to some cool thing that CAN be done, but isn't.  Like RAW video from Canon cameras.  Where did we get that idea?  From people using Alexa and Red cameras, and such, which were borne of similar hackers with DSRL electronics.   

So hacking these cameras is partly social, though it doesn't seem like it.  Hackers may deny it, but I believe all hackers hack partly because they know it will please/impress others.  So where does the private challenge end and the social need begin?  Do we hack just enough to show it can be done, or do we hack enough so that some can use it on a professional shoot?  Or do we hack to get thanks on the forum?

No man is an island.

So true, at many levels. I have no problem with paying to fix stuff, but the here $100 bucks verse 1-2 hours of "work time", make hard problems not worth it, when really extra toy money is cool. And yes I mostly hack for the peer respect (current peers and potental future peers) and yes, people saying thank you is nice.

And your correct I'm not an island, and I've gained heaps from others that have posted stuff online. But I still am careful when I go to other projects. The nikon stuff is not my first public project, but the others have been more tech related than camera's and the people are more aware of the time cost to-do verse I'd like a double cheese burger with fires, now!

So just to make sure no direct feelings hurt, I wasn't really directly ranting at you maxotics, but by the time I got to that part I was on my moral high horse.

I believe that....

that was snort out loud funny.

[my]

That's why most development efforts that seek larger audience do both.  There are trade-offs.  I do believe I am not alone in this.  There are many people who would rather have stability than new features.  What gets developed, and how fast, is a philosophical question.  What would you rather have, new features that bring on 2-5 people, or stability that brings in hundreds?  So I'd put this another way, focusing only on development hinders acceptance and low acceptance ends up with loneliness and failure   (if I may wax poetic).

I read this thread and shake my head a lot. My background, I'm one of the lead developers on the Nikon hacking effort, so similar to this project (no where near as advanced, ML is amazing), but this is not my community, so I feel free to speak, as a developer, without offending "my peoples"

Now I've started to write, I not sure what my key message is.
Maybe as a developer in my day job, where I do "boring" stuff to make the product stable verse shinny new features, to grown market share, and make sure customers have working systems to achieve their goals, etc etc, this is how you do commercial systems. It's a job.

ML for me would be a creative outlet (that's what the Nikon stuff is). Just like photography is a creative outlet. Working out how the camera works, how you can twist it, what you can make it do, that's all fun. If it's a grind, chore, boring, I might as well hang out with my wife/children, go for a mountain bike ride, or just play xbox.

Sure there are people writing manuals, because they feel it's a "good thing", we have manual writers at work also, sounds like a job to me.

I have personal dept to the other developers who worked stuff out for me, or spent the time keeping the site hosted, but the people who just turn up and don't read the forum and ask the same question over and over. Strangely I don't care for them. That right I don't care for the users of my camera hacking, and nor do I need to, I don't need the users to be able to alter my camera, I can do it myself. Yes that's arrogant, but then I can do what they can't. They probably can do stuff I can, and I only have so my life to do anything in.

I get people would like more stable products, pay for them. And by that I mean buy an off the shelf one that works, and is supported (and cost the earth). If people want to pay for my day time verse my free time, then it would honestly be cheaper to by an off the self product, than custom code from me, that's why we standardise, to lower costs.

I love metaphors, so here's a real world meta example:
At work people grow fruit on trees at home, and then bring surplus to work and put then in the lunch room, with signs that say "help your self - name" so you can thank them. Sometime I look at the fruit and think hmmm it not really how I like the fruit (maybe too spotty skin or something like that), but the point is a walk on. If I want fruit I buy it from the shops (and I do buy a lot of fruit) but what I don't do it suggest to my work colleges that I really think they should spend more time picking bugs off their tress so the fruit looks better, because that's really how I'd need it to look before I'll eat it.

Nor to I offer $1 if to motivate then to spend 30 hours tending their trees.

Because I get it's free, and I don't have to take the fruit it I don't like it enough.

The reason my colleges bring the fruit in is so maybe it's not wasted, maybe someone will find value in it.

The coding meaning is: I can hack my camera in private just fine, but making it public I can sharing my findings with other hackers, and we can save each other time, and discover more fun stuff.

Oh and people how cannot hack might find what I've done useful. Maybe what we find will change the camera manufacturers view, on what should be in/out of the product, but nether of these are my goal.


- Simeon Pilgrim

Its arm? You probably can do cache hacks... but if there is no mechanism to load something like autoexec. bin then I can see it being a big issue.

Only the newest camera's are ARM, the older (aka non D5300 or D7100) camera's are Fujitsu FR based.

I wish we have soft memory patching... (vs full system reflash)

Cheers for the props a1ex, Vicne & Coderat have been banging it out.

There is still much to understand (currently trying to  find/identify the SD card chipset etc), but it's pretty exciting to see it come together.