Messages

All your points are valid.  But having spent 20+ years shooting 35mm and 65mm outdoors, I always liked to use whatever the current 50 ISO Daylight stock was available from Kodak (be it EXR, Vision I, II, etc.).  Typically it was the very best emulsion they made (i.e. finest grain, widest latitiude).  I also found it surprisingly forgiving in the shadows and good when pushed.   I don't know about using 200 ISO film out in the desert without again using a bazillion stops of ND with an 85 filter.

However, I would like to make one point without sounding argumentative, using a slower sensor in a 7D ML RAW camera (that I own) and having a slightly larger lighting package is way cheaper than purchasing or renting a RED or ALEXA or Panavision Genesis and using less lights.  Is that a fair conclusion?

Back to 7D ML RAW development, is there any word (or advisable procedure) for using an external HDMI monitor when shooting RAW?

Well I think it all depends, on no budget shoot - if you dont have money for cam like c300, 7d with raw is great.
But on production when you can choose lets say between c300, f3, scarlet and 7d RAW( I'm not even thinking about choosing between alexa and 7d)?
And when something goes wrong - try to explain to producer/director that you've chosen to shoot HIS film/commercial/music video with hacked 7d and not with well established camera like c300 just to save money for that 6k HMI

I think that ML is great, and even on big budget productions it's an option for certain situations (black swan - metro scene).
But I can't afford to risk 20-50k production day only with 7d raw.

Just my two cents    

My speed tests:
Sandisk extreme 60 MB/s  Max horizontal res (1728) @ 25 fps
With 512mb warm up:

2.39:1 - continuous
2:1 - 350
16:9 - 209

without warm up
2.39:1 - continuous
2:1 - 417
16:9 - 256

[below]

As a previous RED owner, the Original "M" sensor was Native 320 ISO.  The "MX" Sensor is Native 800 ISO. 

RED cameras do not like you to change ISO below the Native rating.  I can attest that the image starts getting crunched and less "filmic."  I hate having to put 13 stops of ND and a Hot Mirror (required for all RED shots) out there just to take a daylight shot at f4 (no joke!).  A serious flaw in the camera's design IMHO.

My experience so far with the 7D in RAW, the basic quality of the image doesn't seem to get wrecked if you vary the ISO up or down (within reason, of course).  I've done critical tests between 100 ISO and 3200 ISO and find staying within 100 ISO to 320 ISO is great.

Well RED MX, and all native 800 iso (like alexa, bmcc, c300) sensors tend to lose DR in highlights when changing iso to lower than 800 and in shadows in higher than 800.
Then you get not so nice rolloff in highlights and really messy noise in shadows. So in bright daylight you have to use heavy IR ND's.
All filmmakers want high native iso, because with lower iso rated sensors you need lots of lights on set to get good base exposure and then even more for lighting the actors to get contrast and separation from the background.

Now indoors with 800 iso (or ASA I should say) you can use more natural lighting without introducing lots of noise to the image, and even "light" actors faces with bounce boards etc.
So once again,  higher iso rated sensor = more money saved for producers, and low budget filmmakers.
7d sensor is 100-200 native so outdoors its all great, but indoors it can get messy. Even film stocks got to the point when you use 200 for outdoors and 500 for indoors.

[Here's the build (FPS override is disabled) https://www.dropbox.com/s/um1hpcv7y4vq3hz/ML7DFPSOVERRIDEOFF.zip]

Is it possible to make a version in which H264 also works? I tried the 29-9 build, but it freezes at the end. It would be great since we would be able to use both H264 and RAW.

I also tried to use the old alpha2 version to use H264, but that version does not remember the settings, so that is quite annoying since the default settings do not work for my card.

This one works for me:

While 1% keeps doing his magic, I undefined fps override so h264 video is working. I have a videoshoot coming up tomorrow and i planned to shoot h264 so the render it's done before i die, and the audio features are going to be of big help.

Here's the build (FPS override is disabled) https://www.dropbox.com/s/um1hpcv7y4vq3hz/ML7DFPSOVERRIDEOFF.zip

If there would be a "best" one, there wouldn't be a setting for it in menu (the camera would always use that one).

The one chosen by ETTR should be optimal (in the sense of constrained optimization - you choose the slowest shutter speed, the lowest SNR you are OK with, and how many highlights you are OK with throwing away). If you find a situation where ETTR result is not optimal, report a bug and show what setting was chosen by ETTR, what you think it's best for your situation, and a side-by-side comparison that shows the difference.

Will do.

Why not try ETTR?

That's what I would do. But just for pure clarification I think there should be an answer for the question of the best, and native iso of 7d.   

This is something I found on canonrumors forum, post by "jrista"

This is a mistaken notion based on the behavior of Canon ISO settings and their noise characteristics. Canon uses a 1/3rd stop push/pull approach to achieving non-full stop ISO settings, which can result in some third-stops being less noisy and others being more noisy than their full-stop neighbors. To explain:

Canon sensors use ISO 100 as base ISO, and all of the standard full-stop ISO settings are indeed native. Third-stop settings are actually achieved by futzing with the exposure a bit, rather than directly amplifying the signal to those levels. For example, ISO 125 is actually ISO 100 with a 1/3rd stop underexposure, which is then digitally corrected, or "pushed" up to the correct exposure. ISO 160 is similar, only that it is ISO 200 with a 1/3rd stop overexposure which is then digitally "pulled" down to the correct exposure. ISO 125, since it is a digital push of 1/3rd of a stop, tends to be noisier than either ISO 160 or ISO 200. Conversely, ISO 160, since it is a digital pull of 1/3rd of a stop, tends to be less noisy than ISO 100. The consequence of this approach is that you lose 1/3rd of a stop DR for those intermediate stops of ISO. A third of a stop change in DR is rarely ever an issue in the very vast majority of circumstances though, especially at the lower ISO settings where you have more DR to work with anyway (which is the only time it exhibits...higher ISO's above 800 use an alternative approach.)

People who have noticed this quirk in Canon's noise behavior have made the rather naive assumption that it means Canon sensors actually have a base ISO of 160. On the contrary, when the actual ISO mechanics are investigated, Canon sensors most definitely have a true or native ISO 100, as well as a native ISO 200, 400, 800, and 1600 at the very least, and potentially more depending on the model. All third-stop ISO settings are achieved via push/pull, and at lower ISO settings that results in oscillating noise characteristics. This quirky approach to third-stop ISO settings is actually something I hope Canon moves away from when they move to a new 180nm fabrication process. A true sensor-level analog amplification to all ISO settings would be a better approach

Since no one knows the best ISO to record in RAW i found this,

http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/ISO

But i must say more confuse i stay 

But it doesn't say anything about iso in RAW video, only about the old h264 8 bit codec in video mode.
There is something about shooting raw in picture mode though, and i think you should use this settings (full stop, meaning 100, 200, 400 etc).

But I need some brainac (like a1ex) to confirm it

I have download the 5DII ETTR module from https://bitbucket.org/a_d_/magic-lantern/downloads (the first zip file), this is correct?

Also have the autoexpo.mo, it will work in the 7D?

Does it work?

@Pelican

Can you upload a zip file with the ETTR module?

Can someone explain to me what exactly ettr module is?

Awesome news.
Ok, for the dumbo here, how do I use the CR2toHDR.exe file?
Is there any documentation as I'm a photographer not a programmer.

Thanks

Drag and drop cr2 files to the cr2tohdr.exe.

Having problems getting ML to boot on my 7D. Followed britom's instructions to set the bootflag. ended up with the 3 ROM bin files so I assume it worked. Manually put the autoexec and ML folders on the root of my CF card with the DCIM and MISC folders. When I turn on the camera and hit the delete key nothing happens.

Make the firmware again using cmd and carefully check what are you typing into console. It should create just one file: firmware.fir. Do the rest of steps as the tutorial says.

just for the stupid like me.. when i'm running my 7d on the lastest canon firmware, do i need to downgrade to an earlier firmware to set the bootflag thing? the tutorial some pages ago is nice, but that's the point that's not completely clear to me.

but with the latest stuff happening here i really do need to step up from alpha2...

Once you have latest stock canon firmware on your 7D, you do what tutorial says (make new firmware using cmd, then use eos utility... ).

But will that do the same job as EOScard do.. like enable bootflag and so on?

But you did enable bootflag in EOS utility, by changing the firmware. Now all you need to do is copy ML on cf card.

EOScard is just an app made by @Pelican that automatically downloads latest ML build.

NOW I fucked up.. EOScard crash on my.. I was not able to select the 203 alpha and it crashed.. Here is the error log...

Code Select Expand

AppName: eoscard.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: kernel32.dll
ModVer: 5.1.2600.5508 Offset: 00012aeb


When hitting Ports in progress I get: Invalid argument to date encode??

You can copy the files on your cf card from here: http://pel.hu/ML/magiclantern-7D.203.Alpha2.zip

ML team finaly find the way for unlocked raw video on 7D at 1728 x 1156 max  res ?

wow, its a christmas today. thanks to all developping team. so, happy to see the devollopement of 7d ML go ahead 

For now the values are theoretical as a1ex wrote.

Sorry I've missed something, haven't I?

Look under "7D"



And please, please 25p @ 1080p

Now i'm in the step that says: click OK and Select the firmware.fir file from the first folder. Click OK Again. Now is that the firmware.fir file I just made.. and should I select the one from the card or the same file from the folder where I made it?

"From the first folder" not from the cf card.

1) normal Canon behavior (ever used a Canon camera without ML?)

2) try working in a short directory (e.g. c:\test)

3) I expose to the right for ISO 100; if the scene needs dual ISO, it would look very dark in LiveView at ISO 100, but the histogram will touch the right side.

1) What a1ex was trying to say is that after picture nr 9999 Canon automatically creates new folder, because it would overwrite existing pictures (It's starts all over with nr 0001).

@arrinkiiii

I think that your example is misleading. Isn't it the same picture with different settings in cameraRAW? For appropriate test you should take two photos: one with dual iso off and another with dual iso ON. And expose for gray card.

Did you read my paper?

Now I have, my bad mate. Your work is amazing.

That's why you should try to cover your main subject with both ISOs, and keep the extra range for highlight/shadow recovery (e.g. detail in clouds).

I think in this situation this wasn't the case. Light was even on the desk with no over or under exposure.

I think the cr2hdr needs a little bit of tweaking to leave alone the mids, and work with only  highlights and shadows.

Or maybe its exposure problem. What is av mode exposing for, 100 iso? Shouldn't I expose for around 640?

Quick test for sharpness: 100% middle crop of 7d with 17-55/2.8. 17mm @ 2.8

No dual iso (iso 100):



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Dual iso 100/1600:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

cr2 and raw files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tw3lo4kblurabkn/zjZGCfABR5

Quick test for sharpness: 100% middle crop of 7d with 17-55/2.8. 17mm @ 2.8

No dual iso (iso 100):



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Dual iso 100/1600:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Full ress cr2 and raw files here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tw3lo4kblurabkn/zjZGCfABR5

It works like a charm. I took almost 50 photos and no error.

I've refreshed the files in the zip here so EOScard can download this version from now.
Also updated EOScard itself (bugfix).
The file_man.mo is  the newest with the date info.

What about pick_view module?

@Audionut

Wend i enable the pick_view module its just fail to load.

tcc: error: undefined symbol "raw_info"
tcc: error: undefined symbol "raw_set_geometry"
[E] failed to link modules

The rest i think its working good. Im going out to try the new build 

Yes, all files 

Thanks!