Messages

[ML mode]

You have to get your head around that Canon's 1080p mode in EOS M doesn't record using 1920x1080 pixel. It records in what we call "native" resolution which is done by horizontal pixel binning (reducing output pixel count to a third) and vertical line skipping (reducing output pixel count to a third, too). Thus the numbers posted by theBilalfakhouri. Ratio horizontal:vertical is 3:2 because the sensor has this ratio.

Yes, I know that, and have known it ever since I bought the 550D ten years ago. Since then, I've shot three half-hour Finnish TV broadcast documentaries with one 550D and two M1s - here's one of them, about a six-time champion of hot air ballooning (here with English subtitles):

*Video expired, send PM if you want to see it.*

What I've been looking for is a ML mode that uses the central 1920x1080 pixels of the sensor as such, unbinned and unskipped (which I would call 1:1 - but forget that!), for use with C-mount lenses.

(This would mean a crop factor of a little less than the "3x mode" in ML, utilizing a little more of the C-mount lens's image circle).

I've not succeeded in finding such a mode in the latest ML. Is there no such mode at all, or am I doing something wrong?

its not just him, there's more people confused with the terminology used here

Indeed.

a 1080p preset (1736x1158 3x3)

There you see - how can a 1736x1158 resolution be 1080p ? Horizontally, it's too narrow, vertically, it's too high.
(See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p )

I tried to find a true 1920x1080 resolution (and by that I mean exactly 1920x1080 sensor pixels in a 1080p format), but all I found were different widescreen cropped formats.  (Some call them anamorphic, but they aren't, unless the final video is indeed "squashed", i.e. circles become ovals...)

Does the EOSM Blue make any difference ? I see everyone else uses Red or Black or Silver and all get excellent results

As long as you use the proper color balance setting inside the camera, the camera's outside color has no effect... 

[and]

@Janke,

Please consider seriously what masc suggested in post #4455.  SD cards are cheap these days, you can film in 1920x1080 1x1 RAW and do all the grading in MLVApp - very easy and intuitive and free of charge.  Then you can export your footage in H.264 or H.265 which provides even compacter file size and delete the MLV originals if you don't need them.  Conversion can be done overnight while you sleep.  Please give it a try and once you see how easy you get these stunning quality videos, I am sure, you will never ever look back to your current workflow.  The only downside is the crop factor but a cheap wide angle lens will be more than enough for what you film.

Sorry if I still don't get it -

You say "1920x1080 1x1 RAW" and "The only downside is the crop factor" - does this mean that the 1920x1080 RAW is still recorded with the Canon FW 3x feature already in the earleir ML vesrions, and then upscaled from 1728x1152 ?

That whole 1:1 terminology makes me dizzy... 

But i guess you still want h.264 anyway...

Indeed! I wouldn't fancy converting hours and hours of raw footage to a format I can edit in Final Cut Studio 7. (Yes, I'm an old dog, thus never learned the new tricks of FC X...)

So, I'm happy enough with the current 3x crop.

Big thanks to the whole community!

OK, you definitely have a different terminology within this ML forum than what's used in the graphics & animation industry where I worked for 40+ years...

But it's all cleared up now, thanks to all for your help.

[not]

I think 1:1 means 1 sensor pixel = 1 display pixel. 

We're obviously talking of different things, I'm talking about watching a 3x crop video on a display of 1920x1080 size, such as a HDTV.

In that case, one sensor pixel is larger than one display pixel, i.e. there is not a 1:1 correlation.

With a "true" 1920x1080 pixel sensor video camera (such as Canon C300) one sensor pixel is one display pixel on a 1920x1080 size display.

Also, when you watch a still photo in "actual size" on a computer display (at least it's called that on a Mac), there is a 1:1 correlation between camera sensor pixels and display pixels.

1:1 = Every pixel in a given area is used. Horizontal and vertical.
And the area is 1728x972 which is native resolution.
Therefore crop factor is 3x.

I've always thought 1:1 means "one sensor pixel is one pixel on screen" when viewed in "actual size", but that's not true for 3x crop video, since it is up-scaled from 1728x972 to 1920x1080 in-camera.

x3crop is 1:1 pixel

Are you 100% sure? I have compared, in actual size, a still cropped to 1920x1080 and a 3x crop video shot from the same position, and the 3x video is about 10% larger = so it looks like it's scaled up from 1728 x 972, i.e. not 1:1 pixels.

(And yes, the venue lighting is for the audience, not for the videographer... )

Thanks, Walter - now I'm beginning to understand (I hope...  )!

For Canon's own full-frame HD video, there's first horizontal binning & line skipping (which explains the aliasing), resulting in 1728 x 972, then upscaling that to 1920x1080, saved as h264.

In the following, I'm only talking about the 3x video crop:

It is already in the Canon firmware (but not implemented by Canon, only used by ML) so it apparently uses the central 1728 x 972 sensor pixels (no line skipping or horizontal binning as in "normal" HD). Then, that 1728x972 is again scaled to 1920x1080, and this is what is saved as h264. 

So the "simple" 3x crop is possible thanks to ML just utilizing the existing Canon firmware routines?

Now I understand that to get a true 1:1, 1920x1080 crop from the sensor, ML has to do its own procedures, and then save as raw.

Since I often shoot 2-hour jazz concerts (usually with three EOS-M cameras, one of them with a C-mount zoom), there would be massive raw files to convert before editing, so I was hoping for something more direct...

But, you can't get all you wish for (unless you're Jiminy Cricket...  )

Here is a sample from the latest, "pre-covid" concert, shot with one M1 in 3x crop mode and C-mount lens for the closeups, and for the wider views, one M3 and one M50 with Canon lenses (available in Full-HD):

[AFAIK]

I set and tested "h264 8bit", but the crop [/img]video is still the same as in the 2018 version, which, AFAIK, does not use 1:1 pixels from the sensor, but uses a somewhat smaller area of the sensor (1736x976 or whatever, as 2blackbar said on Sep26), and then scales it up to 1920x1080, losing a bit of definition in the scaling.

If this new version would give true 1:1 pixels, then it would give a slightly wider view - which it does not, it's exactly the same as in the 2018 version. I shot both a still frame and a 3x crop movie from the exactly same position, and the movie is about 10% enlarged when viewed full size compared to the still. This corresponds to the "1736x976 or whatever" crop from the sensor.

What I'm hoping for is a true 1920x1080 movie crop with 1:1 pixels from the sensor, in standard h264 8bit format, without any scaling. That feature would be most useful for anyone wanting to use C-mount lenses, and wanting the best possible quality, and still shooting up to 30 min. consecutive video.

Am I totally off track here?

(I don't need all the other esoteric multi-K anamorphic formats that only can record a few seconds max...  )

[but]

Thanks again for quick reply. Sorry for not making myself clear - I'm almost 70 years old, and not as bright with software as you gurus here...

Basically, what I'm looking for is a simple 3x movie crop, 25 fps, standard mov format, just like the one available in the 2018Jul03 version, but a 3x crop with 1:1 pixels that is not scaled from a slightly smaller area (1736x976 ?) of the sensor - as I understand, that's what happens in the 2018 version?

[not]

Thanks for the quick reply - the addy you provided gave a 404 error, but I loaded the Sep. 26 version and tried it out.

I probably didn't make myself clear in my original question; I'm not looking for an anamorphic or cropped version, just a 16:9 video using 1920x1080 (i.e. not 1736x976) not-binned 1:1 pixels directly from the sensor, in the standard 8-bit mov format with up to 30 min. recording.  (Got an interesting crash using the test version; camera locked, had to remove battery... )

Am I correct in assuming that this is currently not possible? I see that 2blackbar asked about it 2 days ago, but the current test is a different format, right? I don't want to use any other apps than Final Cut 7...

(Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions, but being away for almost a year, I'm virtually a newbie, again...  )

Here's the crash log:

ASSERT: 0
at ./MovieRecorder/MovRecState.c:415, MovieRecorder:ff1f3cb0
lv:1 mode:3

MovieRecorder stack: 1a7758 [1a7878-1a5878]
0xUNKNOWN  @ c380:1a7870
0xUNKNOWN  @ 22194:1a7848
0x00021E8C @ ff0e46c0:1a7830
0xUNKNOWN  @ 21ebc:1a7820
0xUNKNOWN  @ 21f44:1a7800
0x00001900 @ ff1f3cac:1a7790
0x0009E558 @ 9e864:1a7758

Magic Lantern version : Nightly.2020Sep26.EOSM202
Mercurial changeset   : 543f8692f847 (crop_rec_4k_mlv_snd_raw_only) tip
Built on 2020-09-26 07:24:36 UTC by [email protected].
Free Memory  : 221K + 2588K

("MacBook-Pro-som-tillhor-Daniel" - talar du också svenska? )

Friends -

I've been away from this forum for almost a year, but yesterday, I bought another M1 for use with my C-mount lenses. So far, I've always used the 3x crop method (available in the 2018 build), but I hope if you excuse me for asking this:

Is there now a way of getting 1920x1080 video with 1:1 sensor pixel format, i.e. not scaled? (I understand the 3x crop is actually scaled up a bit?)

(Probably answered somewhere else, but buried in lots of other posts... )

Loaded that suggested version.

I trashed the ML folder, autoexec.bin and ML-SETUP.FIR and replaced them with the new - do I need to do a complete de-install, format the card etc?  From my understanding, just replacing the ML stuff should work.

Got very strange behaviour, this version seems to insist on RAW video, the display flashes, sometimes green, menus not responsive, focus motor whirs several times after power off etc.

I won't use RAW, just the original 1080p25 but in 3x crop mode (because of my TV lenses).

Sorry if this already has been requested, but is there a way to keep the 3x movie crop in effect when camera is powered off and then on again, until actively changed by the user?

It always resets when I power off my EOS M1.

Just curious, a question to all you people wanting RAW video: What's the reason, if it's going to be used with CCTV lenses? The optical quality of those  isn't on par with the quality you can get with Canon's own lenses. 

OTOH, if it's the joy of experimentation that's driving you, then go for it! 

I'm very happy with what I can get with Canon's own video format, enhanced with ML's cropped video, regrdless of what lenses I use.

[SHORT MUSIC VIDEO]

SHORT MUSIC VIDEO

I actually had a chance to use that monster Canon TV Zoom (7.5 to 97.5 mm) yesterday - here's a little snippet of a concert recording I made with all my three EOS cameras - ML is the one with the zoom, used to shoot the singers. The M3 (behind the piano) apparently sharpens the video very strongly, and has most moiré of the three cameras...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fRATpUpIt8

In order to get decent sharpness from the zoom, I had to stop down to at least F4 or 5.6!

BTW, I used a simple Zoom H1 for sound recording - not connected to the venue's sound system, hence the rather "thin" vocals...

A Betacam era lense, damn. They both seems to be "parfocal like". Great stuff.

Indeed, those lenses are from the 1980s!  And they do stay in focus during zooming. However, they are inteded only for PAL or NTSC resolution (no more than 720/756 x 486/576), so they don't look too good in full-HD. But a little sharpening in post will do wonders...

Exactly!

Maybe I'm not the only one using it on an EOS M, then?
OTOH, the original lens had zoom and aperture motors which I removed, and a bayonet lens mount, which I modified to a c-mount (I have a metal workshop) - long before I got any EOS.

I also have a Canon TV zoom 12.5-75mm/F1.8 - much better quality, and with original C-mount - this one: https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/302802742279_/Canon-TV-Zoom-Lens-J6x12-118-125-75mm-C.jpg

Here's a video example shot with that lens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rq4hQGtnrE

I started DSLR phtography with the 550D, back in 2010, now I have an M1, M3 and M50...

I needed the 550D as a second camera when shooting a documentary for YLE, the Finnish Broadcasting Co. The other camera was a HV30! A few years later, I shot another documentary with my two original M1s, plus the HV30.
It's nteresting that these consumer-grade cameras are good enough even for national broadcasting (but I didn't use these video zooms, they certainly are not good enough for that - but they sure are nice to play with... )

Shot a quick test today with my old Canon TV-zoom 7.5-97.5mm/F1.4 - the reason I love the ML 3x video zoom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNwHllhAnhM

(The video is unprocessed, needs a bit of sharpening to look good...)

I think my combination of this particular lens and the EOS M might well be the only one in the world - I had to do a bit of lathe work to get a C-mount on the lens! 

[7artisans 7.5mm/2.8]

Hi friends - long time, no chat!  I sold my two EOS M quite some time ago (bought M3 and M50), but missed ML so much that I bought a used one in perfect condition. Managed to load the 2.0.2 version in a jiffy - looks great!

Since I now have a fisheye lens (the surprisingly good-value-for-money 7artisans 7.5mm/2.8), I of course tested the "defisheye" feature, and found it perfect for this lens! I can get perfectly straight lines! I notice that the live view is rough, but then after the shot, ML re-scans it very neatly.

Hovewer, I can't find a way to store the de-fisheyed photo to the SD card... Is it impossible, or am I so dumb that I can't figure out how to do it?

Sorry if I posted this in the wrong topic, in that case please advice me, thanks! 


EDIT - Looks like it's not possible, found this just by chance browsing:

Features that are NOT possible - please don't request them

Things that can be done in post. - Why spending development time on things like in-camera HDR? Magic Lantern is not a replacement for Photoshop

Previewing is OK (e.g. HDR preview, anamorphic preview, fisheye correction preview).

Don't PM - let us all know!

Just change to a card without ML - that's what I do...

Try the low-level format option, the bug disappeared for me using that trick.

DeafEyeJedi asked: Any chance you could show us a footage to see what that particular 3x crop looks like?

Try this:

http://youtu.be/uKWW0rr5GR8

Note that this is a very early and quick test, focus isn't the best possible, and the shadow at lower left disappeared with a rotation of the lens mount. This lens is old, intended for standard definition ENG cameras, resolution 720x576, so no wonder it's not perfectly sharp.

I have a much better lens, a Canon f 1.8, 12.5 - 75 mm TV zoom, but it's only 5x. No YT demo at the moment, sorry...

I used those search terms here, because I thought they were relevant to the EOS-M model and ML...

But, I found what I needed, i.e. the ML User Guide, and am happy with having found it.

Testing the low fps rates, I can get down to about one frame in every 5 seconds, but no longer interval. So, shutter clicks will increase...

But, all in all, any EOS (be it either my 550D or the two EOS-M) gets a fantastic boost by ML - so thanks to all involved!


PS: I have adapted a Canon 7.5 - 97.5 mm f:1,4 TV zoom lens to my EOS-M - works well with the 3x video crop. Wow!