[ETTR DONE] Auto ISO and ETTR shutter in 1/3EV steps

[PhantomLord]

Hello

Would be possible to make min shutter speed in Auto ISO end ETTR  changeable in 1/3 EV steps?
That would be useful to utilize lowest ISO possible without risking shacked photo while using particular lens.

Best Regards and thank you for keeping up great work.

[a1ex]

ETTR -> done, 1/2 steps
Auto ISO -> no (and I no longer see the point of that feature)

[Marsu42]

Auto ISO -> no (and I no longer see the point of that feature)

Hugh, Why's that, why would ettr supersede auto iso? Or are you talking about smaller increments in auto iso that you don't deem necessary?

[Audionut]

Auto ISO is just adjusting exposure, right?

Why have normal exposure when you can have ETTR exposure.  You can adjust the autoETTR settings so it's not pushing the histogram all the way to the right too

[a1ex]

Auto ISO uses Canon's auto exposure algorithm, and I find it very unreliable.

[PhantomLord]

ETTR - nice,

But why you don't see the point in Auto ISO.
Sometimes it is necessary or easier to shoot in JPGs, so ETTR isn't helpful, however shooting with manual lenses is great with Auto ISO.
Let's say for 50-ish on APS-C I set min shutter 1/125 (would preffer 1/100 thou) and I could take photos with variable apertures without thinking about ISO setting. Of course it is most useful in low light situation/indoors. The same thing with longer lenses like 135mm (min. shutter 1/250) and I could quickly change from f2.8 to f11 or f22 without wondering if by any chance my photo will render shaked because my ISO setting was too low.

Maybe I'm missing something, if so, please tell me, but as I see this - Auto ISO with selectable min. shutter is wonderful feature, and would be better with 1/2 or 1/3EV steps.

(I agree, that shooting RAW with Auto ETTR is even better, but as I said, sometimes JPGs are more useful and more convenient)

[PhantomLord]

Auto ISO is just adjusting exposure, right?

Why have normal exposure when you can have ETTR exposure.  You can adjust the autoETTR settings so it's not pushing the histogram all the way to the right too

Well, maybe you make a strong point , must try.

[a1ex]

If you shoot jpeg, ML is probably not for you. Try a point and shoot camera

[Audionut]

If you shoot jpeg, ML is probably not for you. Try a point and shoot camera

You're just palming them off to the chdk guys, recommend a Nikon instead   

[a1ex]

LOL

ML auto ISO is already out from the repo.

[PhantomLord]

If you shoot jpeg, ML is probably not for you. Try a point and shoot camera

Yeah, great idea! You must have really spend some time to come up with such advice

And now serious, well I mostly shot RAWs, however there are times I don't need RAWs, like my grandmas birthday for instance or so, times when I don't want to spend any more time editing RAWs, just straight out of body JPGs would be nice.

And if I'm not mistaken ETTR doesn't work with JPGs and that's quite obvious as why it should. That's when Auto ISO comes in place.

[a1ex]

Just reimplement it as a module. I'm not willing to maintain it any more.

[1%]

Both ML auto iso and canon auto iso worked for me. I just set an upper limit of acceptable noise.

I'm not going to cry if its iso 400 instead of 200, etc. Auto ettr trumps both but you need to pick aperture.

[PhantomLord]

Just reimplement it as a module. I'm not willing to maintain it any more.

Really?
It was that difficult to just leave it there?

Man, you must have had really bad day to behave like that. Anyway, thanks for effort developing ML as it's great tool despite our Auto ISO quarrel.

Cheers

[1%]

What was wrong with canon auto iso... it just picked isos that were too high occasionally.

[PhantomLord]

What was wrong with canon auto iso... it just picked isos that were too high occasionally.

Well, as you said I won't cry either if it's 1600 instead of 800. However with manual lenses that do not provide its' focal length, Canon's Auto ISO maintain 1/60 or similar while for instance for 50ish on APS-C 1/100 or 1/250 would be more in place and so on.
ML Auto ISO had it's point with old manual lenses and that's just it. In my opinion it was good and helpful feature.

[a1ex]

Sometimes the code becomes too complex to maintain, and old hacks have to go. I'd rather keep something that works really well, than have the menu full with all sorts of kludges. Don't forget that ML is a tool for power users.

Bulb ramping disappeared in the same way, even if I've worked two years on optimizing the algorithms. Reason: ETTR + post deflicker is completely flicker-free and the algorithm is really simple and robust.

422 silent pics also disappeared because DNGs are much better (both image quality and software support). Sure, the matrix mode is still missing, but totally possible to reimplement (just not a priority for me).

For manual lenses, what's stopping you from setting 1/250 in the ETTR menu?

[PhantomLord]

All right, I understand that there have to be some spring cleaning in the code.
Don't get me wrong, ETTR is great. For 90% of time when I use RAW I don't even think of Auto ISO as ETTR does it better. Just sometimes I use only JPGs and then ETTR won't work. Solution is just use RAW+JPG configuration and ETTR will provide nice images and I could manually set min shutter speed.
To be honest, I almost always keep RAW+JPG and if don't need RAWs, simply delete them afterwards.

I think you convince me with that "I'd rather keep something that works really well, than have the menu full with all sorts of kludges."

Topic is ended for me than.

Cheers

[Audionut]

Put the camera in manual, set your desired depth of field, minimum shutter speed and let Canon autoiso do the rest.

[PhantomLord]

Put the camera in manual, set your desired depth of field, minimum shutter speed and let Canon autoiso do the rest.

That is easy to say if you have plenty of time. Animals and people move quite fast you know , and not always have time for manual mode. Anyway ETTR will do the trick, just have to keep RAW+JPG and that's it.

[Marsu42]

ML auto ISO is already out from the repo.

Thank god I'm able to compile my own ml and re-patch it into it... I admire alex' work, but I feel this removal is rushed. Probably poor old /me really needs to replace my eos with a p&s if I cannot keep up with all ye modern power users while I keep sticking to Av and Tv :-o

* How does auto-ettr replace shooting with var aperture in tv mode with ml auto iso ("as deep dof as possible" with setteable min. limit)?
* Auto-ettr needs measurements in live-view, while ml auto iso is immediately ready with zero delay as a "works good enough" solution?

Of course it's the prerogative of the devs to remove features if they deem it appropriate or they don't use them, I simply don't see how auto-ettr supersedes auto-iso.

[Audionut]

That is easy to say if you have plenty of time. Animals and people move quite fast you know , and not always have time for manual mode.

Have you even bothered to try it?  Your DOF should probably be already set.  How hard is it to scroll the wheel when you need to adjust your (minimum) shutter speed.  You only need to adjust your minimum shutter speed as the scene requires, and if I'm not mistaken, you had to do that with ML autoISO anyway.  Where's the difference?

Heck, throw the thing in Tv mode (you got your minimum shutter speed) and it will adjust your aperture and ISO.
Put it on the little green box, and it will adjust everything for you

Are you whinging for the sake of it, or did you just not know better, and decided to have another whinge instead of trialing a new process?

In M or Tv you get 1/3 or 1/2 minimum shutter adjustment too.  Imagine that!

I cannot keep up with all ye modern power users while I keep sticking to Av and Tv :-o

Canon's autoISO works in those modes

* How does auto-ettr replace shooting with var aperture in tv mode with ml auto iso ("as deep dof as possible" with setteable min. limit)?

Assign the minimum shutter to Canon shutter (Tv mode), adjust aperture as you see fit (Av mode).  On bodies without dual wheels, you can hold the Av button and scroll the main wheel to adjust aperture.  You gain adjustable exposure (rather then Canon's or ML's old this is your exposure) with the possibility to have the exposure, ETTR.

* Auto-ettr needs measurements in live-view, while ml auto iso is immediately ready with zero delay as a "works good enough" solution?

AutoETTR is pretty quick, even having to read the liveview data.
In all honesty, if you need a zero delay, you should put it in green box mode.  That's a solution that "works good enough" too!

If the lighting conditions aren't changing rapidly, you can meter the scene (take a pic with AETTR) and you have your settings set and ready to go for all consecutive shots.  And changes in lighting will be adjusted on the fly anyway with AETTR.

[a1ex]

Auto ETTR is not even fully optimized; with HDR video tricks it's possible to make it almost instant (1-3 LiveView frames, that means settling in under 0.1 seconds, or 0.2 when hunting).

[Marsu42]

Canon's autoISO works in those modes

Thank you, I'm aware of that - but you're probably missing the point of Tv with ml auto iso, it's a "as deep dof as possible mode" with safeguard by ml: Setting a min. aperture in Tv to prevent the lens to go wide open is a great and often missed feature - be it open aperture isn't sharp or has too little depth of field.

On bodies without dual wheels, you can hold the Av button and scroll the main wheel to adjust aperture. 

I admit I don't understand this - where's the Av button :-o ?

In all honesty, if you need a zero delay, you should put it in green box mode.

Please, we don't want to get nasty here, we're all ml enthusiasts that are ready to work with alpha/beta quality fw and are trying to give feedback to improve it - and while I feel "get a p&s and use the green box mode" are juicy comments it doesn't help establishing a friendly mood. I'm happy to stand corrected if I misunderstand that ettr can replace Tv with ml auto iso, but afaik ettr only adjusts the shutter and not the aperture?

[Audionut]

I'm heading out the door, so this will be a short reply.  I'll revisit it better later tonight.

I admit I don't understand this - where's the Av button :-o ?

That's the 550D.  5D3 has dual scroll wheels for shutter and aperture.  I assume most other bodies are very similar.

I'm happy to stand corrected if I misunderstand that ettr can replace Tv with ml auto iso, but afaik ettr only adjusts the shutter and not the aperture?

I don't understand what the problem is with having one option being user controlled.  It sounds like you want everything being adjusted for you.  In which case, use the green box or a P&S isn't really that bad of an answer at all!
It takes all over microseconds to use the grey matter and scroll the wheel for the required depth of field.  And in this way (user controlling aperture in in AETTR), you have your minimum aperture.  You set it.  You control it, on the fly.
Map min shutter to Canon shutter and you can control it also on the fly.

This is like the best of both worlds, and fits in perfectly with a1ex's statement that ML is for power users!