Author Topic: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?  (Read 20071 times)

drmoreau

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Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« on: January 08, 2014, 09:18:45 PM »
I primarily shoot wedding videos and stock footage. Running a 60D and a 600D I cannot see any real world practical use of RAW video.

Is it just that you get 14bit vs 8bit and no compression artifacting?

With either of my cameras I can't even shoot (with a fast card) 4 seconds of 1080p video (minimum for stock footage clips most places), so what use is it really?

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking the incredible achievement of even getting this to work AT ALL. Just wondering what the actual practical use of it is at this point and what most folks dabbling with it are actually using it for.

jose_ugs

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 09:24:10 PM »
Do u shoot stock(photo) footage and if so, do you shoot JPEG?

drmoreau

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 09:34:28 PM »
I generally shoot stock photos in RAW.

I get how awesome RAW is, I'm just saying that with the current limitations what is anyone actually using it (video) for? I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm genuinely curious.

Malcolm Debono

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 09:41:33 PM »
Just like RAW photos, the primary reasons for shooting RAW are more latitude (ability to bring back highlights and shadows to a certain extent) and changing white balance in post. Tests have also shown that even when shooting raw video at a resolution lower than 1080p and upscaling it to 1080p, it is often sharper than standard 1080p H264 footage.

I have never actually shot in raw for any real work (apart from personal footage & tests) since I mostly shoot weddings & events. I think it's nice to have a camera capable of shooting raw video, and I wouldn't think twice to use it when the need arises (such as commercials). In fact it's the primary reason why I'm keeping my 5D2 as a second body to my 6D :)
Wedding & event cinematographer
C100 & 6D shooter
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drmoreau

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 09:52:50 PM »
yeah I figured the ability to make more corrections, but still, with most cameras capable of only a second or two of RAW video that really seems to limit the possibilities eh?

hopefully future bodies will have much faster card slots and allow much longer takes. if either of my cameras were even capable of 5 seconds of 1080p RAW video I would put it to work immediately on stock footage shoots.

a1ex

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 09:58:39 PM »
Last time I've checked, the 60D was capable of around 5 seconds at 1080p 24fps.

drmoreau

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 10:05:42 PM »
nope. I switched the camera into 1920x1080 24p in the regular menu and then tried to change the resolution in the RAW video section of ML and it said that the current size was not supported in that mode.

I did manage to get almost 6 seconds of 720p though. That's a start.

1%

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 10:42:30 PM »
Quote
if either of my cameras were even capable of 5 seconds of 1080p RAW video I would put it to work immediately on stock footage shoots.

50D can shoot 1080P till the card fills
the 7D can shoot close to 1080P sizes too

The problem is you bought a body with an SD card.

drmoreau

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2014, 10:44:54 PM »
Well, I use the 60D because it has a flip out screen. Event video is very difficult without it.

jose_ugs

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2014, 10:54:59 PM »
Well, I use the 60D because it has a flip out screen. Event video is very difficult without it.

One of the things Canon should have added to 5DM3! But that's another story...
You cannot use RAW for your job... not really
But if you shoot music videos, commercials, stuff where you can afford multiple takes... RAW shines as a super nova!

drmoreau

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2014, 11:09:10 PM »
Agreed, raw will NOT work for weddings, but would be nice for stock footage shoots.

When the 5d3 came out I considered it but lack of flip-out screen was a no-go for me.

jose_ugs

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 11:20:17 PM »
There are some solutions using small tablets and/or android smartphones where you can monitor off that LCD... So think twice :)

dmilligan

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2014, 11:34:30 PM »
nope. I switched the camera into 1920x1080 24p in the regular menu and then tried to change the resolution in the RAW video section of ML and it said that the current size was not supported in that mode.

I did manage to get almost 6 seconds of 720p though. That's a start.

That's because "1080p" in the Canon menu is not actually 1080p, it's upscaled from a little bit lower resolution to 1080p. The highest resolution in non crop mode is 1728x972. Canon upscales that to 1080p.

Hit the zoom in button in LV and you'll now see that you can go all the way up to 2.5K resolutions.

I can get around 15 seconds of 720p. You need to set the picture quality to S2 JPEG.

Midphase

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 02:01:53 AM »
I primarily shoot wedding videos and stock footage. Running a 60D and a 600D I cannot see any real world practical use of RAW video.

You're absolutely right, those two cameras are pretty horrible at full res raw.

Now if you had a 5D3 (and weren't shooting weddings) you'd probably be singing a different tune.

mageye

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 05:27:38 AM »
I ♥ RAW :-*
5DMKII | 500D | KOMPUTERBAY 32GB Professional 1000x |Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II | Samyang 35mm f/1.4 ED AS UMC | Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III | Zoom H2 (4CH. audio recorder) | Mac OS X 10.9.2 | Photoshop CC | After Effects CC | Final Cut Pro 7

Africashot

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 08:02:59 AM »
@drmoreau Looking at your other threats you also do not seem to find 1080p practical due to long render times, thus RAW is definitely not for you. In any case I've got a 600D and wouldn't even dream about using it for RAW, on the other hand the 5D2 is doing ok for my RAW needs...
ML 5D2 & T3i

jas.brooks

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 12:28:55 PM »
In my experience shooting with a 5D3, raw is only appropriate for a certain minority of my work, but for that work it's an absolute godsend.

I shot for 5 days around Saudi back in November, getting backplates for a mid-budget CGI pre-visualisation of a massive building in the desert. Because the footage was going to be extensively comped (and hence motion-tracked), it was very useful for the post-team to be dealing with the sharpness of raw, not to mention the colorspace, DR, and flexible WB for grading in amongst plenty of full-CG shots.

I shot a total of 350GB in 5days, so not a huge amount of rolling time (managed to get by with only two 64gb Komputerbay 1000x CFs, although 3 or 4 would've been nice), and only had one bizarrely magenta-purple take during the whole experience, which I thought was a sign of pretty good reliabilty.

I've also started to make videos for high-end hotels, and for that it is also perfect. The sharpness is really impressing clients, and the flexibility with DR and colour takes pressure off trying to choose the 'best' WB in mixed-lighting environments.

All in all, a MASSIVE thanks and congratulations to the ML team and wider community.

-jason

Shield

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 04:43:22 PM »
yeah I figured the ability to make more corrections, but still, with most cameras capable of only a second or two of RAW video that really seems to limit the possibilities eh?

hopefully future bodies will have much faster card slots and allow much longer takes. if either of my cameras were even capable of 5 seconds of 1080p RAW video I would put it to work immediately on stock footage shoots.

Second or two?  I get 12+ minutes straight with a 64GB card + 5d3.

Shield

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2014, 04:44:48 PM »
Agreed, raw will NOT work for weddings, but would be nice for stock footage shoots.

When the 5d3 came out I considered it but lack of flip-out screen was a no-go for me.

Get a small HDMI monitor and mount it on the hotshoe, or build a small rig.  Can still be done handheld.

fillman86

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2014, 09:32:03 AM »
3 simple reasons;
1) green screen, compositing and other digital touch ups become a whole lot easier and better looking
2) colour correction with compression is like stapling your eyelids shut :P raw is a dream for this!!
3) until recently, the majority of movie projectors were 2k, so for the 5d3, h264 didn't look to great, but raw 1080 (close to 2k) that I've seen looks fine

it really comes down to what you want.... and if you want to colour correct..... seriously.... colour correction........... colour........ correction....... colour erection....... :P

bluewater

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2014, 10:15:12 AM »
Depends on your needs.  8)

IF you shoot a commercials or movies, RAW video is a good choice 'cause we can focus on the 1-min-clip for 2 hours or more.
HOWEVER, if you shoot for hobbies and record for a trip abroad, you got the wrong one.


How many time could you put into JUST making videos for A TOUR?

10-hours-moive recording?

voi·là
Maybe it'll takes 100 hours or more (with SUPERFast i7 computer)


So, RAW video is not good for recording your everyday life.
I rather recommend you shooting SMARTPHONE can record 4K movie (e.g. Galaxy note 3).




4K video has more cleaner image than 5D mark3 RAW-video. (only in a day circumstances)

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2014, 07:42:53 PM »
I disagree. If you want to shoot your little adventures in RAW then go for it. I put together an vid in no time at all. Just an evening with friends with a cinematic look thanks to ML

 and i much prefer this image over any cellphone claiming to out put 4k. Id like to see that cell phone push iso 6400 and above. some of the scenes in my vid there was no light at all! Also this 4k craze is a bit much. How many of those cams can actually output true 4k anyway. Still cams have a hard enough time resolving that as is.

I think raw is awesome for what ever you want to use it for, if you know what your up against in workflow which isnt that bad at all.

Man people are going to be driving there cars with there cell phones soon.....

reddeercity

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2014, 10:52:39 PM »
I think there's a lot of people with "best practices" issue and not getting the result they expected .
It's seems "from the posts here in the form" that a lot of user's are finding it hard to come from
H264/MOV. file to Raw/DNG's .
Before you more of less just focus, frame it, expose then record, or set to Auto then hit record.
So now Magic Lantern Team has put a "Ferrari" in your hands (My favorite one is  1962 Ferrari 250 GTO  ;) )
like all Hi-performance Machine there's a learning curve you need to do !
But I think that maybe the problem, some people are lazy (this dose not apply here , please don't take offence).
and they just don't want to read of research the topic for raw, a lot just want someone
to tell them what to do or how to do it.
The Workflow is very simple and if you are a organized person you should not have issue .
I Subscribe to the very simple philosophy "K.I.S.S." (keep it simple stupid)  ;D
You really don't need a "super computer" to process Raw, there is so many way now to get your raw file to a video clip.
I know of (3) different way with no special software added,
1) After Effect >ARC> Video file > NLE
2)Apple Motion 5 >image sequence>Color Grade>ProRes4444>NLE
3)Apple Compressor 4>image sequence>Video File(with minimal image adjustment)
and as long as you have a good (GPU) you don't need a lot a CPU power.
 :)

Edit: I use Raw for all my projects, and with MLV+Audio there is no turning back!

 

bluewater

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2014, 10:40:56 AM »
I can't chime in with prevalence of RAW video; Rather I belive 4K era will come, soon.


No matter how *fast PC is, it still needs time to convert MLV into DNGs and combine them to movie file.
Plus, there's no software to convert MLV files to movie clips in one click.
If you shoot with 4K video camcorder, all you have to do is just connect USB cable to PC and play it.


Even though RED is cheaper than $1000, people will not use it to record their everyday life.
Usability issue cannot be igrnored when it comes to daily life shooting not commercials and films.


*You don't need nice GPU; CPU is far more important.
 GPU encoding quality is not as good as CPU encoding. Cuda-acceleration filter is limited.
*I use RAM disk(write speed: 11000 MB/s), but it still takes much time.
*AS I said in low light, 4K smartphone is not good at all. That's why I pointed "only in a day circumstances"

Stavfilm

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Re: Real world use of RAW video on DSLRs?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2014, 04:31:01 PM »
I primarily shoot wedding videos and stock footage. Running a 60D and a 600D I cannot see any real world practical use of RAW video.

Try shoot something different with RAW  8)
I'd feel myself more lucky if I had ML RAW in my camera when I visited London and Glasgow. So much space for color creativity, absolutly different perceptions from the picture.

I'm preparing for my first big movie I'll shoot with my 5DM3 and ML RAW. So, believe me, there is a practical use of RAW video in real world  ::)