Author Topic: Canon 50D  (Read 531352 times)

arboldeconfianza

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #125 on: May 12, 2014, 03:57:57 AM »
Can someone help me understand the shutter speed values displayed on Live View? After upgrading to the most recent nightly build, (after using V2.3 with this RAW build - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.0) my shutter speed values are now confusing me.

My camera's setting, (based on the top of my camera) is on 1/50, since I shoot 23.976 and the fewer frames offer greater resolution shooting.

BUT in Live View it reads a completely different shutter speed and the Live View picture is whitewashed when shooting outdoors, (even though photographs I take with the same settings are exposed correctly). For example, the camera is set to 1/50, but in live view it will read as 1/92 (or any number it would like to). In fact, even when I adjust my aperture I've found that this number changes. I'm not certain of how my frames are being exposed. I also get confusing readings within the ML menu, like "1/92, 94°." When this value is changed within Magic Lantern, my photo settings change on the top of my camera as well. It also appears to loop around through settings when I rotate my click wheel far enough.

All in all, I would like some help in setting an accurate solid shutter speed for 23.976 fps raw video recording, and an understanding of what these units represent. Do I follow what's on my camera's top display or what ML tells me?

Regards and much thanks, ImagineFlight

Try changing or OVERRIDE EXPO  , AUTO EXPOSURE!, I do too but it was the same fix with these options.

ImagineFlight

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #126 on: May 12, 2014, 08:09:51 AM »
for video, the screen values are the good ones. The ones from the top of the camera, are for pictures (as far as I know)

Thanks for the response! It's nice to have some sort of lead.

Can you help me understand what my values represent then, reading as  "1/92, 94°?" I'm having a difficult time reaching my desired 1/50 or 1/48 value for the 180° shutter rule. Nothing worse than bad blur for filming, looks terrible! Also - why does this value change depending on the light? Am I not in full manual mode for some reason?

Thanks,
ImagineFlight
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simulacro

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #127 on: May 12, 2014, 11:23:04 AM »
maybe you should activate exposure override
simulacrofilms.blogspot.com

ImagineFlight

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #128 on: May 12, 2014, 07:28:33 PM »
maybe you should activate exposure override

That's just the thing - I shouldn't have to do that, shouldn't I just be able to have it available? And why does my shutter speed change when I adjust my aperture?

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
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vascostmr

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #129 on: May 12, 2014, 08:20:58 PM »
Hi everyone, i finally bought a 50d and i'm now using magic lantern for the first time.  :D

I'm thinking of buying a fast CF card to shoot raw, but i'm not sure which one to buy. Because there are so many mixed reviews on different sizes, speeds and cameras.

-For the 50d how fast does it need to be to shoot raw? 800x?
-Are the komputerbay cards trustworthy?

Thanks

dogmydog

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #130 on: May 12, 2014, 08:30:26 PM »
Hi everyone, i finally bought a 50d and i'm now using magic lantern for the first time.  :D

I'm thinking of buying a fast CF card to shoot raw, but i'm not sure which one to buy. Because there are so many mixed reviews on different sizes, speeds and cameras.

-For the 50d how fast does it need to be to shoot raw? 800x?
-Are the komputerbay cards trustworthy?

Thanks

Get cards at least UDMA 7 or 1000x write speed. I had a defective Transcend 32GB and a 16GB, so i don't recommend that brand (althought it could have been because I was using a USB 2.0 card reader. ALWAYS use a USB 3.0 card reader).
I use Lexar 32GB 1000x and Sandisk 16GB 60mb/s with no issues on 1584x896 23,976 fps.
Opposite of Sex
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Canon 50D, 60D and 7D

dickson

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #131 on: May 12, 2014, 10:42:11 PM »
Can someone help me understand the shutter speed values displayed on Live View? After upgrading to the most recent nightly build, (after using V2.3 with this RAW build - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.0) my shutter speed values are now confusing me.

My camera's setting, (based on the top of my camera) is on 1/50, since I shoot 23.976 and the fewer frames offer greater resolution shooting.

BUT in Live View it reads a completely different shutter speed and the Live View picture is whitewashed when shooting outdoors, (even though photographs I take with the same settings are exposed correctly). For example, the camera is set to 1/50, but in live view it will read as 1/92 (or any number it would like to). In fact, even when I adjust my aperture I've found that this number changes. I'm not certain of how my frames are being exposed. I also get confusing readings within the ML menu, like "1/92, 94°." When this value is changed within Magic Lantern, my photo settings change on the top of my camera as well. It also appears to loop around through settings when I rotate my click wheel far enough.

All in all, I would like some help in setting an accurate solid shutter speed for 23.976 fps raw video recording, and an understanding of what these units represent. Do I follow what's on my camera's top display or what ML tells me?

Regards and much thanks, ImagineFlight


This is the closest to the problem I've been having that I could find. The last build I could use on my 50d was back in December. Ever since then I've had next to no control over the shutter speed, and I get a flashing screen as if it's hopping from ISO to ISO. In the past this would happen only when I tried to change the ISO, but with the latest build it starts doing it a few seconds after I turn the camera on. If I switch off LV I can set any shutter speed, but as soon as LV is back on it goes haywire again. For me the builds just keep getting worse and worse!

simulacro

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #132 on: May 12, 2014, 10:42:30 PM »
And why does my shutter speed change when I adjust my aperture?


This behavior is present when you're not in M mode

or if you're in M mode exposure override OFF

If you don't want it to happen, turn exp override on
simulacrofilms.blogspot.com

ImagineFlight

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #133 on: May 12, 2014, 10:50:48 PM »

This is the closest to the problem I've been having that I could find. The last build I could use on my 50d was back in December. Ever since then I've had next to no control over the shutter speed, and I get a flashing screen as if it's hopping from ISO to ISO. In the past this would happen only when I tried to change the ISO, but with the latest build it starts doing it a few seconds after I turn the camera on. If I switch off LV I can set any shutter speed, but as soon as LV is back on it goes haywire again. For me the builds just keep getting worse and worse!

You wouldn't happen to have a copy of that build would you? The furthest back I can go on the nightly builds is January of 2014
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sync24fps

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #134 on: May 12, 2014, 11:13:33 PM »
Ive been having similar issues with shutter speed changing on its own, when I change the ISO or use the 5X crop, the shutter speed changes on its own.  Its frustrating because we don't know if its a glitch or the SS is actually changing effecting the image. I guess down the road the ML team will fix this.

sync24fps

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #135 on: May 12, 2014, 11:20:51 PM »
@ arboldeconfianza -  I tried using the tool you recommended to change the Black level setting but with no luck.  Nothing is happening.  Also, since a 50D is a 50D, why should we have to change the BL in the first place?  Shouldn't there be a standard setting within the ML itself when installed that fixes it by default use?  It really suxs that i cant get any of the latest builds to look normal on my 50D - they are all extremely pink/ magenta and can not be corrected.  I know its apparently a soar subject to bring this up, but the latest version of TL does not have this issue except a SLIGHT magenta shift that can be adjusted in CC.   TL was on the right track to perfecting the 50D.  I get amazingly beautiful creamy ALEXA like images using TL and processing through resolve.  TL still did have some issues that I thought the latest version of ML would have addressed by now....Please, dont give up on the 50D - its looks amazing - even better than the 5D mkii when processed right!

ImagineFlight

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #136 on: May 13, 2014, 08:11:53 AM »
@ arboldeconfianza -  I tried using the tool you recommended to change the Black level setting but with no luck.  Nothing is happening.  Also, since a 50D is a 50D, why should we have to change the BL in the first place?  Shouldn't there be a standard setting within the ML itself when installed that fixes it by default use?  It really suxs that i cant get any of the latest builds to look normal on my 50D - they are all extremely pink/ magenta and can not be corrected.  I know its apparently a soar subject to bring this up, but the latest version of TL does not have this issue except a SLIGHT magenta shift that can be adjusted in CC.   TL was on the right track to perfecting the 50D.  I get amazingly beautiful creamy ALEXA like images using TL and processing through resolve.  TL still did have some issues that I thought the latest version of ML would have addressed by now....Please, dont give up on the 50D - its looks amazing - even better than the 5D mkii when processed right!

I definitely agree. The 50D is an animal when it comes to RAW video.

Using the most recent nightly build, I've discovered that using the MLV format comes out pink and un-correctable like you said. However, the classic raw format still works perfectly, now that I've learned to use the Exposure Override function. MLV on the 50D isn't a very plausible format for the 50D, since the 50D lacks in audio recording capability (which seems to be the point of MLV). I recently shot a promotional video on my 50D in classic Raw v1.0, and all my frames came out perfectly (almost - one was corrupted, had to adjust the Hex values with HxD).

I definitely prefer my personal build using Stable Build v2.3 and this raw build here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.0

It provides the basic manual controls I always look for. However, your personal RAW preferences are lost on reboot - i.e. aspect ratio and the like.

Also, check this out - http://vision-color.com/visionlog/ I've been using this with ACR. I always color through ACR for a realistic image. This camera profile helps me achieve that and gives me solid working ground.
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a1ex

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #137 on: May 13, 2014, 08:37:43 AM »
Reminder: I can look into the shutter speed issue if anyone provides me with the info I've requested a while ago.

This may give some hints: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9262.msg105069#msg105069

I have asked a question in that thread, and if anyone can answer it, I can provide a fix.

See also: https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/issue/1968/50d-shutter-aperture-doesnt-change-when

ImagineFlight

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #138 on: May 13, 2014, 09:06:11 AM »
Reminder: I can look into the shutter speed issue if anyone provides me with the info I've requested a while ago.

See also: https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/issue/1968/50d-shutter-aperture-doesnt-change-when

Hey Alex,
The biggest issue I run into with the new builds is the lack of shutter speed control. With my classic 2.3 build with raw, I have complete control. With the recent nightly build, setting my shutter speed is a nightmare. And when shutter speed is set incorrectly, video appears to stutter or have out-of-control motion blur. I have no clue as to why someone decided that shutter speeds needed to be set automatically and change alongside my ISO and aperture settings, but it's made working with the new builds extremely difficult. I can set my own controls manually and get fantastic video. With the new ones, it's like getting drug into a rabbit hole of confusion. I've tried a few days working with exposure override, and while it works, it's still not simple and easy like it used to be.

I have missed your previous posts requesting information regarding shutter speeds. Let me know what you want, and I'll get it to as fast and best I can.

Keep being awesome,
ImagineFlight
Imagine Flight Media House

a1ex

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #139 on: May 13, 2014, 09:22:32 AM »
If you don't have coding skills, show me a video with the exact differences between the two builds (I don't have a 50D).

If you have coding skills, let me know how the exposure-related properties react in 50D when Canon decides to adjust the exposure automatically, e.g. when moving from inside to outside (test code linked above; a video showing the reaction of these properties would be perfect).

FYI, the 50D's video mode is similar to the one from the old 5D2, that is, without manual exposure controls. Therefore, ML adds them via exposure override (and, of course, should not sync to Canon's auto-exposure code).

Jip-Hop

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #140 on: May 13, 2014, 09:46:17 AM »
@ arboldeconfianza -  I tried using the tool you recommended to change the Black level setting but with no luck.  Nothing is happening.  Also, since a 50D is a 50D, why should we have to change the BL in the first place?  Shouldn't there be a standard setting within the ML itself when installed that fixes it by default use?  It really suxs that i cant get any of the latest builds to look normal on my 50D - they are all extremely pink/ magenta and can not be corrected.  I know its apparently a soar subject to bring this up, but the latest version of TL does not have this issue except a SLIGHT magenta shift that can be adjusted in CC.   TL was on the right track to perfecting the 50D.  I get amazingly beautiful creamy ALEXA like images using TL and processing through resolve.  TL still did have some issues that I thought the latest version of ML would have addressed by now....Please, dont give up on the 50D - its looks amazing - even better than the 5D mkii when processed right!

When I started looking into RAW last week I tried MLV first, but all the clips had the magenta shift. I disabled fix black level in the MLV settings and after that the color was correct. However, I'm now using RAW_rec instead of MLV_rec because it gives me much more consistent performance. I would suggest you to turn off fix black level in the latest build to see if that helps or use RAW_rec. Seems to be working for me. I'm going to use it for a shoot tomorrow, excited!

Ska

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #141 on: May 13, 2014, 12:13:10 PM »
I disabled fix black level in the MLV settings and after that the color was correct. However, I'm now using RAW_rec instead of MLV_rec because it gives me much more consistent performance. I would suggest you to turn off fix black level in the latest build to see if that helps or use RAW_rec. Seems to be working for me. I'm going to use it for a shoot tomorrow, excited!

I had the same problem with the magenta shift in MLV, disabled the fix black level and works fine now.

casuso

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #142 on: May 13, 2014, 03:55:35 PM »
With the nightly build i couldn't change the shutter speed. Until i activated the Expo Override, with it i can change shutter to 1/48 without a problem and if i change the Aperture the shutter stays the same. Everyone who is having trouble with shutter should try the expo Override. At least it solved my shutter problems :)

Ska

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #143 on: May 13, 2014, 07:05:12 PM »
With the nightly build i couldn't change the shutter speed. Until i activated the Expo Override, with it i can change shutter to 1/48 without a problem and if i change the Aperture the shutter stays the same. Everyone who is having trouble with shutter should try the expo Override. At least it solved my shutter problems :)

The problem's that I can only do it by accessing the menu, it's bit awkward when not using manual lenses, not to be able to use the top and back wheels to change the aperture and shutter speed.

dickson

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #144 on: May 14, 2014, 01:16:23 AM »
You wouldn't happen to have a copy of that build would you? The furthest back I can go on the nightly builds is January of 2014

I have a copy of one from December and one from October. I'm having a whole new issue now though, and it applies to those as well as the latest, all the same - namely, none of the exposure settings are working. I can't control shutter, and I can change the numbers for aperture and ISO but they have no effect, at least not in LV.

ayshih

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #145 on: May 14, 2014, 01:32:07 AM »
If you have coding skills, let me know how the exposure-related properties react in 50D when Canon decides to adjust the exposure automatically, e.g. when moving from inside to outside (test code linked above; a video showing the reaction of these properties would be perfect).

I've finally gotten around to doing this test, and for the most part none of the four properties trigger with automatic exposure changes.  The only exception is PROP_APERTURE2 for the few seconds following a half-shutter press in P and Tv modes.  As you suggested, I put printouts right at the top of each of the properties, and they respond as expected to changes that are manually applied.
Canon EOS 50D | 17–40mm f/4L & 70–300mm f/4.5–5.6 DO IS | Lexar 1066x

artyg

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #146 on: May 14, 2014, 07:10:45 AM »
last 2-3 pages of this topic is COMPLETELY OF TOPIC.... Pleas keep forum organized! Thanks!
Canon 5D3 SanDisk Extreme Pro 64Gb 160MB/s

ImagineFlight

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #147 on: May 14, 2014, 08:48:07 AM »
last 2-3 pages of this topic is COMPLETELY OF TOPIC.... Pleas keep forum organized! Thanks!

None of this is off topic. So I guess you're right. It's "of " topic, being on topic about exposure on the 50D. Unless you think a forum about 50D specific video exposure should not be included within a topic on the Canon 50D, I'd say we're doing pretty well. Gotta love spell-check, right? "Pleas" use it.

Hey A1ex,
If you don't have coding skills, show me a video with the exact differences between the two builds (I don't have a 50D).

If you have coding skills, let me know how the exposure-related properties react in 50D when Canon decides to adjust the exposure automatically, e.g. when moving from inside to outside (test code linked above; a video showing the reaction of these properties would be perfect).

FYI, the 50D's video mode is similar to the one from the old 5D2, that is, without manual exposure controls. Therefore, ML adds them via exposure override (and, of course, should not sync to Canon's auto-exposure code).

I don't have Magic Lantern coding skills unfortunately. But I can verify that Canon was not altering the exposure settings. My camera was set to 1/50 on manual mode where it remained for photographs. ML seemed to give me odd shutter speeds and 180 equivalents, which changed when I attempted to adjust my aperture, throwing me into a "two steps aperture, two steps back shutter speed" mindset. Depending on the light I am experiencing when I activate Live View, this "Live view specific" shutter speed is different every time, causing me to reset all of my settings frequently.

All of this is  without Exposure Override activated. With Exposure Override activated, I am able to manually set my exposure. This is on the most recent nightly build, I have not tested other nightly builds.

I made a video of this occurrence here, though I'm sure this ML build was coded and written in this way for a reason that I don't understand or know of quite yet.


I'm currently using the Stable v2.3 build with the June 11 GregoryOfManhatten build (http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.0) instead of the most recent nightly build and am finding great success with the simple and easy exposure settings (with the exposure override setting activated. Due to the inconsistency of the nightly build, my "build" seems to be much more simple.)

Thank you for your help in better understanding my camera and magic lantern. You guys totally rock.

ImagineFlight
Imagine Flight Media House

a1ex

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #148 on: May 14, 2014, 09:28:40 AM »
@ImagineFlight: with exposure override turned off, you do not have manual exposure controls. You have Exposure Simulation. That is, you only get some brightness equivalent to the exposure settings you have dialed.

Proof: adjust the aperture and listen to lens clicks. There will be none. Instead, ExpSim is keeping shutter speed at around 1/60-1/100 and it's bumping the ISO. To confirm, take some silent pictures at different apertures and check the bokeh and the noise.

@ayshih (and anyone else who can compile ML): at first sight, it seems that CONFIG_NO_MANUAL_EXPOSURE_MOVIE should be disabled for 50D (internals.h). If the properties do not react in movie mode when you move the camera from bright to dark (like they do on 500D), disabling this will allow expo override to sync with the exposure values from properties (as dialed from the scrollwheels). Can you confirm?

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/ff23f490c3677be41618a04ff3d6319a03d3ce07

ImagineFlight

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #149 on: May 14, 2014, 06:53:24 PM »
@ImagineFlight: with exposure override turned off, you do not have manual exposure controls. You have Exposure Simulation. That is, you only get some brightness equivalent to the exposure settings you have dialed.

Proof: adjust the aperture and listen to lens clicks. There will be none. Instead, ExpSim is keeping shutter speed at around 1/60-1/100 and it's bumping the ISO. To confirm, take some silent pictures at different apertures and check the bokeh and the noise.

@ayshih (and anyone else who can compile ML): at first sight, it seems that CONFIG_NO_MANUAL_EXPOSURE_MOVIE should be disabled for 50D (internals.h). If the properties do not react in movie mode when you move the camera from bright to dark (like they do on 500D), disabling this will allow expo override to sync with the exposure values from properties (as dialed from the scrollwheels). Can you confirm?

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/ff23f490c3677be41618a04ff3d6319a03d3ce07

Hey @A1ex, Thank you for your help - I am in better understanding now. I think I'll continue to use my own v2.3 build since it's always worked for me. I like the new look of the nightly build with its shiny font and built in RAW, but the manual controls aren't as basic and controlled as the old build. I'll try out the future nightly builds to see if this changes, but for now I'll stick to what I know.

I'm interested in learning more about the coding behind ML, if you could redirect me to a forum explaining how to program ML, maybe I could contribute a little bit to what you're looking for.

ImagineFlight
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