Author Topic: Canon 50D  (Read 405900 times)

menoc

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Re: Canon 50D with Magic Lantern Raw VAF-50D Optical Anti Aliasing filter
« Reply #75 on: April 22, 2014, 12:22:08 AM »
Your footage shows it! It is even better than what I expected! 50D + VAF is killer combination. I cannot wait longer for my VAF filter - just ordered it few days ago ;o)

Here is what I got last weekend - shot mostly in full sensor without VAF:
Using Cineform RAW workflow to Adobe Premiere - that is pretty awesome too :)

Ordered a VAF for my 50D last week! Should be here within a week!

menoc

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2014, 12:24:39 AM »
Hey Alex, is there any hope of getting dual ISO on the 50D? The 50D could benefit from this even more so than the 5D3.

menoc

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2014, 12:33:03 AM »
@sync24fps - try deleting the .idx file associated with the clip before converting

In fact, it is best to move the mlv file to a hard disk, then convert from there.

sync24fps

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2014, 09:37:35 AM »
I've finally gotten a chance to put the 50D to the test in a real world production situation.  I was on a short film shoot that ran 8 hours with a total of 72 minutes of RAW capture footage. Here is what I have to report about its performance:

Given that I know the 50D has a reputation of overheating, I tried to minimize the chances of this happening while shooting by using a original Canon battery grip to help minimize the battery heating up the camera and by using an external monitor via HDMI out.  The 1080i signal produced by the 50D I found was great for external monitoring and checking focus. 

Pros and Cons:

Pros:  The 50D is an amazing performer in low light with just enough noise at the higher 320 and 640 ISO ranges to give the images a classic "film stock" look.   The image quality while shooting the RAW is amazing as well and blows up to 2K with ease in Resolve.  Overall a great image is produced that would hold up its own if projected on a large theater screen.

Cons:  It is with great disappointment though that I have to report that despite the incredible image quality the 50D captures, overheating seems to be a major issue.  Production flow was halted multiple times by frame skipping and camera freezing up.  Even turning the camera off in between takes for a few minutes had minimal effect in preventing the sensor from getting hot quickly again. 

After a shot of 3-5 minutes once the sensor temperature raised above 40 degrees C, the frame dropping and camera freezing issues started.  To remedy this, when the camera went above 45 degrees C, I had to turn it off for at least 5 minutes and switch CF cards to enable me to capture another take over 3-5 minutes continuously.

The cards I was using for the shoot are the Komputerbay 64BG 1000X.  Perhaps a Scan Disc or Lexar may hold up better for continuous recording as the camera heats up, but eventually when the camera reaches 50 degrees C and is in the yellow, regardless of cards, I think it should be turned off as it has no auto overheat protection.

It is this overheating issue that makes me think the 50D is not suitable for any long shoots.  Canon probably disabled the video feature originally because of the overheating, that at the time, they had no solution for until the 5D mkii was released.  Just my guess.

The only solution for long hours of shooting with the 50D would be to have TWO cameras on standby taking turns taking shots to avoid the overheating.  In fact this is what Shane Hurlbert used to do when the 5D mkii was released to avoid overheating auto shutdown.  But Shane shot loads of footage for his projects.  So it is an option.

However when considering buying two 50Ds to switch off and alternate cameras to avoid overheating seems like it will slow production time down.  In  addition, for the price of two 50Ds one can get a 7D cheaper or one 5D mkii, which as we know, both have higher capture resolution.

Perhaps Magic lantern will come up with an option to solve the 50D overheating issue in the near future but I think this seems to be more of a camera hardware  functionality.  I know even the RED MX had overheating issues that were dealt with with ice packs at the time. The question is,  do we really want to have crew and actors wait around while a camera cools down and run the risk of corrupt files?  I guess its up to you to decide.

That said, for now, my 50D remain a "B" camera for night time exterior establishing shots (and WOW is it great in low light).  But for main "A" camera shooting, I'll be going with the 7D or 5D mkii for the next RAW production.   Hopefully these will not overheat as the 50D does.

a1ex

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2014, 11:26:30 AM »
Hey Alex, is there any hope of getting dual ISO on the 50D? The 50D could benefit from this even more so than the 5D3.

It's no longer working? I already have a few 50D samples in my test collection.

ayshih

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2014, 04:15:20 PM »
Maybe menoc is asking for dual ISO video?  Certainly dual ISO photos work fine for me.
Canon EOS 50D | 17–40mm f/4L & 70–300mm f/4.5–5.6 DO IS | Lexar 1066x

a1ex

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2014, 04:18:46 PM »
That makes sense, but since the video workflow was not exactly usable (aliasing, flicker, slow processing), I didn't see this as a priority. Would require some extra reverse engineering though, not just porting the memory addresses.

Would be very cool to have a video workflow that looks at before/after frames to reduce the aliasing, but that's not quite easy.

lionelp

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2014, 04:50:18 PM »

That said, for now, my 50D remain a "B" camera for night time exterior establishing shots (and WOW is it great in low light).  But for main "A" camera shooting, I'll be going with the 7D or 5D mkii for the next RAW production.   Hopefully these will not overheat as the 50D does.

Nice post.
 I would definitely agree there are newer cameras that are less prone to overheating issues.  But what a nice image.
Canon 60D, 50D | Lenses: Nikkor : 18-55 , 3.5 | 50, 1.8 | 24, 2.8 | 28,2.8 | 35, 2.8 |Helios 58 | A few other Nikon manual zooms and prime lenses|
Komputerbay 1000x, Sandisk 95 MB/ s

dsManning

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2014, 09:05:16 PM »
Anyone else use Silent Pictures for crop mode?

The center of the sensor in crop mode seems to not like to center... Confusing, I know. What I mean by that is that you can get information from the center of the sensor, but when in crop mode, it always chooses a side (left/right).

I know it is a 5x preview of a 3x crop, so it is already a bit more to think of while composing a frame. It would be nice to know what is actually the center without having to guess.  This is also the case for crop sensor RAW recording. Being able to have it record from the center would be great, allowing for zoom in/outs would not come/go to the corner of the frame, but straight down the center of the lens.

Thanks

johnhenryrupe

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #84 on: April 22, 2014, 10:17:01 PM »
Anyone else use Silent Pictures for crop mode?

The center of the sensor in crop mode seems to not like to center... Confusing, I know. What I mean by that is that you can get information from the center of the sensor, but when in crop mode, it always chooses a side (left/right).

I know it is a 5x preview of a 3x crop, so it is already a bit more to think of while composing a frame. It would be nice to know what is actually the center without having to guess.  This is also the case for crop sensor RAW recording. Being able to have it record from the center would be great, allowing for zoom in/outs would not come/go to the corner of the frame, but straight down the center of the lens.

Thanks

Hi dsManning. I went through this a few months ago myself. As far as I know there's no way to center the framing in crop mode. It must be something about the 50D. If you search the old thread it's discussed a few times in there.  http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.0

menoc

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2014, 02:28:13 AM »
Maybe menoc is asking for dual ISO video?  Certainly dual ISO photos work fine for me.

Yes. Sorry for the confusion. I meant video. So I guess there's some hope? Alex, let me know if there's anything I can help with . . .

menoc

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2014, 02:31:34 AM »
I have another question: Does bulb mode work with silent pictures when using intervelometer? In other words, does a 30 sec buld exposure apply to silent picture?

a1ex

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2014, 07:49:12 AM »
Dual ISO video is the same as on 5D2 (so once I'll get it working there, it will work on 50D too).

Silent pictures are limited by FPS override (not sure what's the lowest limit on 50D, you can try and tell us). But you can average a few frames and get a long exposure (with higher dynamic range - if you average 16 frames you get 2 stops, if you average 64 frames you get 3 stops and so on). I have an old patch that does this averaging directly in the camera, if anyone wants to get his hands dirty:

http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10176.msg98049;topicseen#msg98049

dsManning

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2014, 08:00:54 AM »
if anyone wants to get his hands dirty:

Can you point me in the direction of centering 50D crop mode, I'd love to get my hands dirty with that. I have an old B4 broadcast lens that would be great, if it didn't catch a left/right vignette when I shot cropped or zoomed during recording.

a1ex

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tom.frajer

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2014, 08:10:05 AM »
Cons:  It is with great disappointment though that I have to report that despite the incredible image quality the 50D captures, overheating seems to be a major issue.  Production flow was halted multiple times by frame skipping and camera freezing up.  Even turning the camera off in between takes for a few minutes had minimal effect in preventing the sensor from getting hot quickly again. 

Thank you for your detailed experience. Seems like I found source of my problems --> overheating
http://www.tomfrajer.cz
ML RAW --> Cineform RAW (Rawanizer) --> Adobe Premiere CC
Canon 50D + EF-S 10-22mm - EF 28mm 1.8 - EF 50mm 1.4 - EF 100mm 2.8 macro - EF 200mm 2.8 prime |Benro S6 Fluid Head + Culmann Magnesit Tripod + Laing P-04 Stabilizer

tom.frajer

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2014, 03:57:17 PM »
I still experience crashes on latest nightly build. See my Reply #42 on: April 10, 2014, 08:24:32 AM. Today it happened two times (filmed near full 64GB card). Im now turning frame skipping ON (as it crashes just AFTER first frame skip) and fps from 23.976 to 24. Tommorow I will try it another day to see if changed settings make some difference. Any better ideas?

Still same. But now it most of the times only skips frames and does not crashes. Can anyone help me or do I have to stop bothering you guys? Maybe Im missing something important. I do not know, Im new to the whole ML thing...

Can this be overheating issue?
http://www.tomfrajer.cz
ML RAW --> Cineform RAW (Rawanizer) --> Adobe Premiere CC
Canon 50D + EF-S 10-22mm - EF 28mm 1.8 - EF 50mm 1.4 - EF 100mm 2.8 macro - EF 200mm 2.8 prime |Benro S6 Fluid Head + Culmann Magnesit Tripod + Laing P-04 Stabilizer

menoc

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #92 on: April 23, 2014, 06:49:12 PM »
Dual ISO video is the same as on 5D2 (so once I'll get it working there, it will work on 50D too).

Silent pictures are limited by FPS override (not sure what's the lowest limit on 50D, you can try and tell us). But you can average a few frames and get a long exposure (with higher dynamic range - if you average 16 frames you get 2 stops, if you average 64 frames you get 3 stops and so on). I have an old patch that does this averaging directly in the camera, if anyone wants to get his hands dirty:

http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10176.msg98049;topicseen#msg98049

Wonderful Alex, I'll try it . . . Thanks for the help.

dsManning

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2014, 09:01:16 PM »
Yes, http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11323.msg110540#msg110540

Edited my makefile to allow for ADTG GUI module.  5 registers changed when center clicking the joystick to set to 'Center to 5X RAW'

ADTG3[9] 0x3010 (was 0x2d0d)
ADTG3[*b] 0xb010 (was 0xad0d)
CMOS[5] 0x5e6 (was 0x628)
ADTG3[1000] 0x5 (was 0x0)
ADTG3[1200] 0x1 (was 0x0)

Time to do some researching. EDIT added * next to ADTG3 2nd line, because the tag without was making text bold, and missing part of the register

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2014, 05:47:40 AM »
Hey guy's here is a music video that I just worked on shot entirely on the 50D uploaded it 4K to youtube to get every last drop of Rez.. that I could.

a1ex

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2014, 08:19:44 AM »
Edited my makefile to allow for ADTG GUI module.  5 registers changed when center clicking the joystick to set to 'Center to 5X RAW'

ADTG3[9] 0x3010 (was 0x2d0d)
ADTG3[*b] 0xb010 (was 0xad0d)
CMOS[5] 0x5e6 (was 0x628)
ADTG3[1000] 0x5 (was 0x0)
ADTG3[1200] 0x1 (was 0x0)

Time to do some researching. EDIT added * next to ADTG3 2nd line, because the tag without was making text bold, and missing part of the register

On 5D2, CMOS[1] and CMOS[2] control the horizontal and vertical position of the raw feed. If you lock thier values from adtg_gui (override them without changing the value), the raw image will stay locked in the same place, no matter where you move the focus box on the screen.

To see this, you will have to use the raw_rec grayscale preview with recording resolution set to maximum possible. If you use a lower resolution, raw_rec will try to center the recorded crop area with the displayed area, but with the maximum resolution there are no degrees of freedom to do this. Just so you know, finding the displayed area is done with focus_box_get_raw_crop_offset (also used by the x5 centering trick).

To implement it as a useful feature, we will need:
- the CMOS values needed for perfect centering of the raw stream
- a place to patch these values passively (need to look in the firmware)
- user interface proposal (menu option? or just enable it by default when centering the focus box? don't know yet)
- when this centering mode is being used, we also need to skip the raw centering process in raw_rec/mlv_rec, since focus_box_get_raw_crop_offset will now return nonsense.
- update the x5 centering trick for the new raw buffer (this trick centers Canon's displayed area on the raw buffer, so Canon preview will always show the center of what you are recording), preferrably in the backend, without showing it on the UI (aka it should just work).

(did I forget anyhing? :P )

tom.frajer

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2014, 09:01:42 AM »
Can this be overheating issue?

Done more testing yesterday at home (indoor). Formated card (64 GB 1000x Komputer Bay), started recording in full sensor mode and let it record almost full card in few long takes. No problem at all. Temperature started at about 30C, quickly raised to about 40C and stayed here. No frame skipping issues or crashing. Now Im little confused. Maybe higher outside temperature (on sun) plays some role here. Will keep trying outside and watching temperature carefully. I hate to discuss with myself, but hopefully my findings may help someone else in the future :-D
http://www.tomfrajer.cz
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Canon 50D + EF-S 10-22mm - EF 28mm 1.8 - EF 50mm 1.4 - EF 100mm 2.8 macro - EF 200mm 2.8 prime |Benro S6 Fluid Head + Culmann Magnesit Tripod + Laing P-04 Stabilizer

far.in.out

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2014, 02:47:15 PM »
Yes, it will help others, like me, for sure. I have nothing to say on the subject yet but I'm watching and taking notice. This information is useful. So, keep up. Thank you.
50D (was 600D) Helios 44M-4, Canon 18-55mm IS II

tom.frajer

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #98 on: April 28, 2014, 08:20:11 AM »
Next things I tried at home:
1, Burn-in test - completed sucesfully after some long test shooting (reached 48C max temperature). No crashes. Interesting find, but I need to repeat it several times.

2, In-camera card benchmark - crashed after while. Temperature was low (cannot remember exactly, but I took camera and started benchmark without any warm-up). It crashed. Now Im suspecting my Komputer Bay 64GB card and will focus on it little bit more. I want to try reformatting it in computer - some useful info I found is here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6554.100 ("Aligned + 64K clusters is giving me the best speeds.. expect a 1-2mb cut from formatting in camera to 32k clusters. At least on 64GB cards.")
http://www.tomfrajer.cz
ML RAW --> Cineform RAW (Rawanizer) --> Adobe Premiere CC
Canon 50D + EF-S 10-22mm - EF 28mm 1.8 - EF 50mm 1.4 - EF 100mm 2.8 macro - EF 200mm 2.8 prime |Benro S6 Fluid Head + Culmann Magnesit Tripod + Laing P-04 Stabilizer

johnhenryrupe

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Re: Canon 50D
« Reply #99 on: April 28, 2014, 04:47:14 PM »
Hi y'all,
     Made this little video with some footage I shot in Massachusetts a month or so ago. Terrible weather the day I was out shooting and touring the countryside. But I was impressed with the 50d's ability to handle the rain, no problems. I would wipe it down every so often and kept it kinda covered. Anyway. RAW to DNG (using Rawanizer) to Davinci (color correction/grading) to AE (for editing, slight sharpening, stabilizing, upscale to 1080) to H.264.