Author Topic: Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i  (Read 16262 times)

tmcdanel

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Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i
« on: December 29, 2013, 08:38:41 PM »
I am a teacher doing a grant project shooting skits and puppet shows with a Canon Rebel T3i. The other thing to keep in mind is that in a school, a good camera gets used for a wide variety of applications, including stage performances. Sound is always a problem. Maybe you could point me to some good threads or forums or answer three questions:

I guess i am going to get a shotgun mike. I have a grant for the project so i can re-allocate money how i need. I am looking at an AmoVee SG-108 or a TAKSTAR SGC-598. Both are under $50 and have good Amazon ratings. A Rode or high end Technica seem too much.
So on the low end is there a difference between AmoVee or Takstar? and will i be happy with these?
Or would it be better to add my own personal money and invest in a Rode?

Secondly should i consider a preamp. I have seen Youtube videos that advocate using a preamp like a Juicedlink rm202 as well because the camera's AGC (Automatic Gain Control) is poor but they are really expensive.
So the question here is which is a better bang for my buck, an expensive mike or a preamp?

Finally, maybe i would be better of with lapel mikes, perhaps wireless, in most uses. But i dont know where to begin with those and my impression is that most professionals dont use those. Beyond a what distance are wireless mikes better?
What would a professional do in a classroom?
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Luiz Roberto dos Santos

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Re: Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 02:10:01 AM »
Well, I'm not a big connoisseur of sound, but I did not indicate him buy a mic or amplifier, but an external recorder.
Think about it: you have, on camera, a "potentiality". If you divide this potential between two interests (sound and video), you are leaving later add this capability in one and put it in another. In this case, without audio you get higher bitrates on video rec. Not to mention the H4n, Zoon, as audio has an infinitely better (think recording in WAV 24/96!). Even with the microphone that comes with this recorder, you will have a higher quality and easier to work in software later this sound like on Audition or whatever.

ItsMeLenny

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Re: Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 03:52:08 AM »
I have the rode stereo video mic and it was well worth it.
However, it can be quiet sometimes, as you mention a preamp, the rode stereo video mic pro not has a switch that can do -10db 0db and +10db, the stereo video mic (non pro) doesn't have the +10db.

I'm in Australia, and they're Australian made, however I purchased mine from England, because they're cheaper to buy anywhere else in the world, that's including the cost to ship it out then ship it back.

dmilligan

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Re: Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2013, 01:29:04 PM »
Well, I'm not a big connoisseur of sound, but I did not indicate him buy a mic or amplifier, but an external recorder.
Think about it: you have, on camera, a "potentiality". If you divide this potential between two interests (sound and video), you are leaving later add this capability in one and put it in another. In this case, without audio you get higher bitrates on video rec. Not to mention the H4n, Zoon, as audio has an infinitely better (think recording in WAV 24/96!). Even with the microphone that comes with this recorder, you will have a higher quality and easier to work in software later this sound like on Audition or whatever.
+1 everything about doing external sound is better

another good example is the 30 minute limit (or the ~12 min/4GB limit), there's no such limit on audio recorders, and just a 16GB card can record uncompressed stereo for hours on end. so at least if you can't get continuous video, you can get continuous audio. just throw some graphic up during the1-2sec video restart time, or film from two camera angles and switch to the other camera while one is restarting (this is what I do).

also you can use them stand alone if all you want to record is audio at some event (like a music concert)

tmcdanel

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Re: Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2013, 08:57:04 PM »
Quote
but an external recorder.

Yeh, i know thats what professionals do. And i think you are very correct that, for the money, this would improve the sound. But a high school classroom is a dynamic place full absolute amateurs. Most of the time this is not practical. Partly because a range of students would have to learn about it, but also because the best teaching is immediate feedback. Students learn more when we pull the card before the end of the class period and look at "rushes". They get immediate understanding of what works and what doesn't. I have no experience with putting sound and video together, and on my Macbook i am guessing it is not difficult, but 95% of what is shot is not "edited" but only quickly reviewed.

It sounds like, considering the situation, investing in a Rode mic with a decibel gain would be the best investment, despite having to contribute my on money. I wish teaching was like working in a company, and i could just send the bill to the billing department.
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jordancolburn

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Re: Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 10:01:20 PM »
If you a video where the main cam is on a tripod, a cheap audio option could be one of the small Behringer mixers or a portable zoom recorder with a few preamps.  Run any XLR mic you want (lavs, shotguns, condesensors to pick up room sound) into the mixer/recorder, pan tracks you will want to adjust later to different L/R (A two person interview might have one lav left and one right, or a single person performance might have lav panned left and room mic to the right) and take the output via an rca or 1/4" to 1/8" adapter straight into the mic input on the camera.  Turn the volume on the mic input one notch above 0 and use the mixer for all your gain.  We use an old zoom recorder with a line out essentially as a preamp for lav mics and have recorded many quality interviews this way with no need to sync.

ItsMeLenny

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Re: Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2013, 02:49:22 AM »
I wouldn't recommend behringer, even though it probably is in your price range. One $20 umbrella will outlast four $5 umbrellas.

If you don't need stereo sound then theres the "rode video mic pro" with the gain, where as the stereo version is the "rode stereo video mic pro". They were quite inventive with names don't you think?

They have just released the "videomic go" quite a smaller mic, still used on DSLR's, it'd probably be better for a school application as it's not so bulky. You may have to check if this has the gain on it though, I am unsure.

From the Australian ebay (some of these possibly from other countries, but from what look to be reliable sources only):
Rode;
 - Stereo Mic = ~$240
 - Stereo Mic Pro = ~$270
 - Mono Mic Pro = ~$215
 - Videomic Go = ~$100

Also note, that (well at least the stereo video mic I bought), comes with a shock mount for the top of the camera, and a dead rat wind filter.

http://www.rodemic.com/mics/videomicgo

Videomic Go might be the way to go, I don't think it has gain on it, but if you push up the analog gain in the camera (don't touch the digital), it should be fine, just remember to turn the TV back down afterwards, if you know what I mean.

jordancolburn

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Re: Sound improvement on Canon Rebel T3i
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2013, 04:05:27 AM »
I wouldn't recommend behringer, even though it probably is in your price range. One $20 umbrella will outlast four $5 umbrellas.
For a utility mixer, it's great, I bought a 12 channel $40 mixer 6+ years ago and use it for video, submixing keyboards, live looping, reall everything, never had an issue.  We also have a behringer digital mixer as our main live board at church and it offers a lot of great routing options and it hasn't let us down yet.

Also, I second the rode videomic if your application for more documenting events as they happen.  It has been a big improvement over internal sound and a cheap external audio technica stereo mic. 

If you need a simple mic for a closeup headshot, then I have had good luck using something like this straight into an eosm and 22mm lens. http://www.amazon.com/AZDEN-EX503-Omni-Directional-Lavaliere-Microphones/dp/B000BSMKPY