Author Topic: [BROKEN] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop  (Read 23617 times)

Markus

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2013, 11:20:27 PM »
Wouldn't It be possible to delay the signal output, or rec start to get them to start simultaneously. The rec beep only differs +- one frame in my experience. I also noticed that when using the beep to trigger the recording length on sound and video showed the same time down to seconds. I havent tested how many frames they differed though.

For some reason triggering with smpte signal seems to differ moore...

AnotherDave

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2013, 11:41:36 PM »
If the beep is that close, why not just leave the recorder roll, and sync by the beeps?

Markus

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2013, 12:24:04 AM »
There is no setting for continuous beep which is needed for this to work. The recording is kept alive as long as the tone is present. If someone with programing skills would make a continuous beep setting possible we could use the beep instead.
However it may be that the files stop almost simultaneously as it is now and then you could use the endpoints of the files to sync.
   

aaphotog

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2013, 01:30:57 AM »
Perfect sync for start/stop probably isn't completely possible.  With MLV, you should be able to sync the audio and video via the SMPTE timecode you're pumping into that 4th channel… but I think development on the SMPTE module has stopped.  If it worked and you were using a recorder with TC in, you'd have perfectly synced audio and video all the time. 

I am on a mac so testing MLVs is a bit of a pain, and the SMPTE doesn't work on my HD-P2 like it should. 

If people want to test the SMPTE feed, you CAN do so on an iPhone with several free apps.
which apps on an iphone will allow it, AND record 48khz as thats what video would take

AnotherDave

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2013, 03:05:44 AM »
There is no setting for continuous beep which is needed for this to work. The recording is kept alive as long as the tone is present. If someone with programing skills would make a continuous beep setting possible we could use the beep instead.
However it may be that the files stop almost simultaneously as it is now and then you could use the endpoints of the files to sync.
 
but why not just record audio the whole time in between takes?  it doesn't eat up that much space... with a big enough card you could just run all day...

which apps on an iphone will allow it, AND record 48khz as thats what video would take
I'm fairly sure the free iPhone app is called Timecode Buddy, but there are also a few paid apps that read timecode.  You may need an audio input cable.... I had an old iRig i was using before.

diegolamac

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2013, 05:15:36 AM »
but why not just record audio the whole time in between takes?
You're completely missing the point AnotherDave. Since the raw function doesn't record audio, the idea is to simplify the editing process by having the exact portion of audio for each video file, and avoid the waste of time that implies syncing and cutting audio.

g3gg0

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2013, 09:53:59 AM »
@AnotherDave:

SMPTE development hasnt stopped, just noone really could test the current state.
the only test was possible using a PC app.

not tested:
 - recording via external recorder
 - syncing with apps that are SMPTE-aware
 - feedback about desync errors or offsets etc

@Markus:
the frame count when set to zero should give you a continuous tone.
doesnt it?
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Markus

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2013, 11:30:44 AM »
g3gg0: Yes it does as long as you don't have the "beep tone" activated. 

AnotherDave

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2013, 01:32:21 PM »
@AnotherDave:
Is it still just set to do PAL only?  I don't get a read out from it on my Tascam HD-P2.  Happy to test it.  Just tell me what'cha need me to do.

Baarman

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2013, 04:23:44 PM »
Hi,

g3gg0: could you please re-add last well known working SMPTE module back to ML nightly builds default, please? Today I was looking for it and tried 2-3 different versions before I found the one that really worked. The side effect that I'm still randomly getting is immediately hanged camera after pressing REC button. It was better with some builds but worse with some other. ML builds were 20.12.2013 and 21.12.2013. Camera was 5dmkIII.

Don't know exactly which one was the approved one from this topic so I tried a few: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7764.0

Maybe some other setting was incorrect, I don't know.

By the way, I don't suggest to choose SMPTE output volume 100, because no matter if you put specific channel (or all the channels beside the microphone) under monitor mixer on mute, the annoying "girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" sound will be recorded. That noise is in sync with the rapidly blinking red LED light on that channel. You can hear it with you headphones while you monitor and it will also be recorded. So that the audio will be ruined.
First I tried to SMPTE output volume 80, it got better and then picked 50 because even 50 triggers the auto recording perfectly and the noise disappears. It's not the same noise ("shhhhhhhhh") that you hear before muting the channel in monitor mixer, it's something else.

Thanks!

rob_6

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2013, 09:56:42 PM »
Would it be difficult to make the smpte sound module work with the raw_rec.mo? All I really need is the sound output to trigger my recorder. I was able to get it to work, but when I restart the camera it crashes when trying to record again. I know it is made for mlv_rec.mo, but would be great if I could use it for raw_rec.


I prefer working with raw_rec.mo over mlv_rec.mo because of the ease of use I have converting raw_rec.mo files with Raw Magic. Raw_rec development is a little further along as well. I haven't been able to convert mlv files with my Mac running 10.8.5 and Mavericks even after reading several threads and trying many different possible solutions.

Thanks!


Baarman

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2013, 10:16:12 PM »
Wait...I was not aware that SMPTE.mo doesn't have to work with the "old" raw_rec and is meant to work only with mlv_rec. If you say that this is the case, then there's no surprise that it hangs randomly with raw_rec.

In that case, I'm a  Mac user too and regardless mlv_rec benefits the raw_rec is much more user friendly on Mac. Haven't got time nor knowledge to use mlv_rec yet, but if SMPTE doesn't work with the old raw_rec then Iguess I should learn how to do that.

Please share up to date comments/instructions/links, thanks!

(currently hanging with SMPTE.mo continues on 5DmkIII with latest ML version and latest SMPTE.mo right after pressing the REC button. Hanging stops once I disable SMPTE.mo from the menu. This happens with raw_rec and if anybody could fix this, I'd be extremely grateful).

Thank you very much! 

rob_6

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2013, 12:15:34 AM »
I found a way to trick the stmpe module to play the sound with raw_rec without freezing. When you start up the camera go to the Audio Tab and go to the SMPTE Output settings and hit set on the Test Output which will play the sound and then hit set again to stop. Now start recording with with raw_record and the sound will play and record without freezing. With this work around I am recording and monitoring sound with my H4n. There is a mixer function in the menu that will allow you to pan or turn off the volume of the smpte sound.

Not a good workflow, but I thought it might help g3gg0 or any other developer in finding a solution to enable smtpe to work with raw_rec. At least I hoping someone would like to help us! Thanks so much!

Markus

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2013, 12:52:41 AM »
Hi,

g3gg0: could you please re-add last well known working SMPTE module back to ML nightly builds default, please? Today I was looking for it and tried 2-3 different versions before I found the one that really worked. The side effect that I'm still randomly getting is immediately hanged camera after pressing REC button. It was better with some builds but worse with some other. ML builds were 20.12.2013 and 21.12.2013. Camera was 5dmkIII.

Don't know exactly which one was the approved one from this topic so I tried a few: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7764.0

Maybe some other setting was incorrect, I don't know.

By the way, I don't suggest to choose SMPTE output volume 100, because no matter if you put specific channel (or all the channels beside the microphone) under monitor mixer on mute, the annoying "girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" sound will be recorded. That noise is in sync with the rapidly blinking red LED light on that channel. You can hear it with you headphones while you monitor and it will also be recorded. So that the audio will be ruined.
First I tried to SMPTE output volume 80, it got better and then picked 50 because even 50 triggers the auto recording perfectly and the noise disappears. It's not the same noise ("shhhhhhhhh") that you hear before muting the channel in monitor mixer, it's something else.

Thanks!

I plug in my signal cabel via a 3.5 mini jack to 6.3 audio jack that goes in to my H6. This makes my signal go in as a line signal bypassing the mic amplifiers. Are you using a mini-tele to xlr setup? The way i got it set up I can not replicate your problem and i don't hear anything from my signal-channel on my other tracks. I have also amplify carefully so that it just reaches 0db and that i don't amplify it more than I need to.
Also if you have a mini-tele to xlr setup you could try the -20db switch on the sinal channel on your H6 and then adjust the signal to get 0db signal. It might be that you send a to strong signal to your preams if you go in via xlr.   

g3gg0

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2013, 01:06:53 AM »
took notice about your feedback, thanks.
focusing on mlv_snd at the moment, but will not forget about you ;)
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Baarman

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2013, 01:15:32 PM »
Hi,

Thank you, g3gg0!

Markus, I'm using 3,5mm audio jacks cable (http://pixels.uk.com/images/uploads/cables/3-5mm%20audio%20jack.png) with adapter to 6,3mm (http://www.amarutech.com/images/Adaptateur%20jack%206.5mm%203.5mm/6.5mm%20Male%20to%203.5mm%20Female%20Stereo%20Audio%20Adapter%20AV.jpg). No XLR so far, although I could test this.

Do I understand correctly that you use the same setup?
My noise problem was resolved with reducing SMPTE output volume in ML settings from 100 to 50 although H6 still keeps receiving the signal constantly 0db. In other words, nothing changed visually, just the annoying "girrrrrr" noise disappeared. Strange. Could be the cable, could be something else. What happens when you reduce the SMPTE output volume? It doesn't reach to 0db for Zoom anymore?

Is the cable length/thickness/standard in any way related to delay between picture and sound?

All best to you!

Markus

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2013, 09:27:29 PM »
Then we have the same setup. How much do you amplify the signal on your H6? Cable length should not really matter.

Baarman

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2013, 11:44:59 PM »
Hi,

I accidentaly turned the channel wheel on H6 to the maximum (10) which is obviously too much like I discovered now. Once I turned it down to 5-6 the sound became clear. :)
Same effect as reducing SMPTE output volume from 100 to 50-60. Currently I put SMPTE to 60 and H6 channel amplifier 6 so that it barely but constantly gets SMPTE signal and there's no noise. Thanks for your help, everything clear now. Also, it seems that rob_6 suggested workaround really works and I happily use this until the bug related to it will be fixed.

Markus

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2013, 02:47:46 PM »
Your welcome and Im glad you got it working =).

timelapsetoronto

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Re: [SOLVED] Feature request: continuous rec tone for zoom H6 auto start stop
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2013, 12:53:10 AM »
Hello,
I greatly appreciate the work done to achieve this feature.  Will SMPTE.mo work on the canon mkii?  If so,could someone please kindly point me in the right direction as to what i need to do.  I have been running 5D alpha 2 successfully for months now.  I have a H6 now and need to get cooking!

THANK YOU ALL

meditant

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Hello,

Where ca i find smpte.mo for 5D Mk III 1.2.3 ?

Best regards

Markus

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Unfortunatley smtp.mo hasn't been updated for quite some time now and the old one does not work with current builds. 

erek

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I hope that someday soon they will implement a way for this to work with modern builds of ML ...  I have found the source code for generating beeps, but am investigating using Virtualbox setup to modify and compile ML and also QEMU to test my modifications...


https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/src/3efd69b63b955619246b4c0c7095e2c234522ffa/src/beep.c?at=unified


Markus

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Cool  :). I use mlv with sound almost always as of now so this would not not work for me right now. Still would be nice to have it working again. If the camera could send start/stop signals trough the lanc cable directly to the zoom ML would have a really cool start stop feature for external audio recorders.