Author Topic: Tragic Lantern for 6D  (Read 69183 times)

criz_a

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #850 on: March 23, 2013, 05:01:05 PM »
Global drawing is all on. I also tried with a different SD card. And last but not least I reset the camera settings and now it WORKS again!  8) Thanks anyways..

EDIT: Could you plese tell me where this alpha blend setting is? Because now it jitters again..

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #851 on: March 23, 2013, 05:43:32 PM »
Focus peaking -> q -> pick blinking dots... alpha blend.. small buffer.. big buffer..

Also you should update the bin.

Versus

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #852 on: March 23, 2013, 06:19:35 PM »
just got a 6d, after using a mk2 for a while.

check out my moire video though.. its really bad on mine.

Marsu42

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #853 on: March 23, 2013, 10:52:55 PM »
check out my moire video though.. its really bad on mine.

Moire is very bad on the 6d, it's a known problem (you can put an anti-aa filter in front of the sensor, but for the cost you could nearly get a 5d3). The reason is that the 5d3 used pixel binning - full hd is an exact full fraction of the original sensor size, while the 6d has to compute intermediate values.

My guess is that Canon designed this 20mp sensor not only to be lower than the "pro" cameras 5d2/5d3 but also to do worse for video, they want to sell their 5d3 after all ... there's no other explanation for the bad moirse performance :-\

So the short version: If you shoot video for a living, get the 5d3.

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #854 on: March 23, 2013, 11:03:55 PM »
I don't know if its about competing vs 5d3 as much as it is about low light performance being a tradeoff vs the moire.

How does 6D low light stack up to 5d3 low light... they are definitely different sensors.

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #855 on: March 24, 2013, 05:48:51 PM »
With timer A/B control FPS override can be tuned to get rid of the lines. Unfortunately the side effect of timerB is dark noise.. The specs might be dust on the sensor? I'm not sure... Purple cast in the corners is part of the dark noise.



The noise pattern and noise pattern with curve to make it more visible.

http://imgur.com/a/ceynY#0

Exact FPS tends to be line free. Adjust shutter (in adv menu) up until you reach one you can actually use or until speckle/lines/etc disappears.

Maybe there is a way in post to remove both this and the lines. I tried AE and color exclusion.. maybe better to matte it somehow?

*TimerB over 2000 gets rid of the lines at extreme fps. YMMV

noisyboy

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #856 on: March 25, 2013, 03:04:59 AM »
With timer A/B control FPS override can be tuned to get rid of the lines. Unfortunately the side effect of timerB is dark noise.. The specs might be dust on the sensor? I'm not sure... Purple cast in the corners is part of the dark noise.



The noise pattern and noise pattern with curve to make it more visible.

http://imgur.com/a/ceynY#0

Exact FPS tends to be line free. Adjust shutter (in adv menu) up until you reach one you can actually use or until speckle/lines/etc disappears.

Maybe there is a way in post to remove both this and the lines. I tried AE and color exclusion.. maybe better to matte it somehow?

*TimerB over 2000 gets rid of the lines at extreme fps. YMMV

I just use Neat Video in post and it gets rid of the crazy noise pattern so it ain't bothering me no more as realistically I denoise everything when doing the old 10-Bit up conversion technique, otherwise trying to grade is pretty useless.

Sucks that you should HAVE to do this but I'm doing it anyway (and I recommend anybody else should be as well) so it doesn't really matter :)

Still interested to see more of your findings though 1% and if by any miracle we one day have less moire or crazy noise patterns due to yours or anyone else's efforts then awesome!

Keep up the inspiring work man! You're a damn hero!

fauxtographer

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #857 on: March 25, 2013, 04:55:59 AM »
I just use Neat Video in post and it gets rid of the crazy noise pattern so it ain't bothering me no more as realistically I denoise everything when doing the old 10-Bit up conversion technique, otherwise trying to grade is pretty useless.

Sucks that you should HAVE to do this but I'm doing it anyway (and I recommend anybody else should be as well) so it doesn't really matter :)

Still interested to see more of your findings though 1% and if by any miracle we one day have less moire or crazy noise patterns due to yours or anyone else's efforts then awesome!

Keep up the inspiring work man! You're a damn hero!

Is it a real possibility that moire could be reduced via ML? Or should I just buy the mosaic engineering filter and save some struggles?
6D | 24-105 f/4 | 70-200 f/4 | 28 - 35 - 50 - 50 - 135 |

noisyboy

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #858 on: March 25, 2013, 05:47:53 AM »
Is it a real possibility that moire could be reduced via ML? Or should I just buy the mosaic engineering filter and save some struggles?

Yeah, I think I'm gonna get one myself dude. Done enough work with it now to realize it's actually a pretty boss camera, despite it's flaws. Seriously, the low light capability of this camera has saved my ass a good few times already so it's sticking by my side from now on for that reason alone. I would really like to see some more demo vids of the filter with the 6D first though (would especially like to see a demo with some post sharpening and grading). There only seems to be one demo on the net I can find so I guess that speaks volumes about how many people are coughing up for it!

noisyboy

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #859 on: March 25, 2013, 05:51:00 AM »
In fact, I keep meaning to try this plugin out: http://www.isp.co.jp/en/products/tools/filmcolor/falsecolor/

Looks like it might go some way in helping fix some shots that have horrid patterns in them? If anyone else gets a chance before me, give it a shot and let me know what happens :)

Marsu42

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #860 on: March 25, 2013, 12:32:28 PM »
I don't know if its about competing vs 5d3 as much as it is about low light performance being a tradeoff vs the moire.
How does 6D low light stack up to 5d3 low light... they are definitely different sensors.

Fyi: The sensors are the same generation and overall the same, though the 6d has a tiny little bit more dynamic range at low iso and received some further readout optimizations and thus has even less banding than 5d3 (and way less than 5d2).  The iso noise advantage of the 6d vs 5d3 is *maybe* 1/3 stop, but the tradoff is less sharpness (!) than 5d3 (even after downsizing 22->20mp) because the 6d seems to have stronger forced noise reduction even in raw.

Btw the 5d2 still has the sharpest sensor due to a weaker aa filter ... Nikon thus has two versions of the d800 and removed the aa filter in the d7100 to get more still shooting sharpness, but more moire.

In real life shooting, the only difference 6d/5d3 is a bit more usable iso12800 if you want it with the severely reduced dynamic range. The real low light advantage of the 6d is the center point af that goes down to -3lv (5d2: -2lv), but this has nothing to do with moire or the sensor.

Malex

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #861 on: March 25, 2013, 03:25:51 PM »
check out my moire video though.. its really bad on mine.

I checked the video in 1080p fullscreen, and I don't see the moire you're talking about ???, you guys are exaggerating a bit, aren't you? 

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #862 on: March 25, 2013, 04:30:55 PM »
Its not *that* bad... but I see it in vents, grates and roofs... 600D didn't have this. Its still quite usable just annoying.

Quote
overall the same

Agree with the points but I think the weird decimal sensor size has something to do with the moire.

6D: CMOS, 35.8 x 23.9 mm
Actual: 20.6 Megapixel
Effective: 20.2 Megapixel

5d3  CMOS, 36 x 24 mm 
Actual: 23.4 Megapixel
Effective: 22.3 Megapix

BTW... TTL flash is on the way.

electrichobo

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #863 on: March 25, 2013, 10:21:58 PM »
what can/do I have to do to help w/ the 6d port? Got my cam here and im ready to do what I can!

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #864 on: March 26, 2013, 12:31:20 AM »
Use it and have fun :)

Find reproducible bugs.

canonuser78

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #865 on: March 27, 2013, 07:34:54 PM »
http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/6d.html

I just watched the 6D demo video with/without VAF filter.The result looks great but the price is not to low.I was wondering is there any good alternative to remove moire by using software for example ?

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #866 on: March 27, 2013, 07:36:18 PM »
Not yet, hopefully in the future.

gravitatemediagroup

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #867 on: March 27, 2013, 11:24:58 PM »
I have seen a plugin for FCP that is "supposed" to do "something" as far as moire, but I have no personal experience.

canonuser78

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #868 on: March 28, 2013, 11:57:55 AM »
VAF can be an option for the moment but unfortunately ,the annoying part will come when you take photos.You have to remove the filter in order to get the best quality , the filter is made for movie mode only.

Remove VAF filters for still photography.  VAF-series filters are specifically designed for HD video -and should be removed to shoot high-quality still photography at your DSLR's full, native sensor resolution.
...

MMy guess is that Canon designed this 20mp sensor not only to be lower than the "pro" cameras 5d2/5d3 but also to do worse for video, they want to sell their 5d3 after all ... there's no other explanation for the bad moirse performance :-\

So the short version: If you shoot video for a living, get the 5d3.

But one level below, if we compare 6D vs. 5DMK2 the results are pretty much the same and I saw a few videos made with 5DMK2 looking amazing .Do you agree ?

Marsu42

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #869 on: March 28, 2013, 01:18:42 PM »
But one level below, if we compare 6D vs. 5DMK2 the results are pretty much the same and I saw a few videos made with 5DMK2 looking amazing .Do you agree ?

Sure, the 5d2 had excellent video quality at that time, and both 21/20 mp chips don't like pixel binning like on the 5d3 so you have to expect some moire. Problem is: The world has revolved some times around the sun, and there are not-so-expensive cameras with ef lens mount that blow even the 5d3 out of the water (but lack Magic Lantern...): http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-vs-blackmagic-design-cinema-camera/

coutts

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #870 on: March 28, 2013, 02:35:51 PM »
Sure, the 5d2 had excellent video quality at that time, and both 21/20 mp chips don't like pixel binning like on the 5d3 so you have to expect some moire. Problem is: The world has revolved some times around the sun, and there are not-so-expensive cameras with ef lens mount that blow even the 5d3 out of the water (but lack Magic Lantern...): http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/09/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-vs-blackmagic-design-cinema-camera/
good video, whoa.

coutts

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #871 on: March 28, 2013, 02:49:04 PM »
With timer A/B control FPS override can be tuned to get rid of the lines. Unfortunately the side effect of timerB is dark noise.. The specs might be dust on the sensor? I'm not sure... Purple cast in the corners is part of the dark noise.



The noise pattern and noise pattern with curve to make it more visible.

http://imgur.com/a/ceynY#0

Exact FPS tends to be line free. Adjust shutter (in adv menu) up until you reach one you can actually use or until speckle/lines/etc disappears.

Maybe there is a way in post to remove both this and the lines. I tried AE and color exclusion.. maybe better to matte it somehow?

*TimerB over 2000 gets rid of the lines at extreme fps. YMMV
Reminds me of back when I had a powershot and used chdk, one effect of using >30second exposures made purple / pink distortions like that in the same manner (usually in one corner), they determined it's due to sensor heat.

what do the temps look like when this happens (higher than normal)?

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #872 on: March 28, 2013, 03:36:02 PM »
18C when camera started went up to 36C with fps on after a while. Iso 800... minimal defects. ISO 1250 pink corners.

So loosly related to temperature but also to ISO.


Left it at 2fps for a while temp went up to 54c but number of defects didn't change. Have to see what temp is when I get a video like that with defects everywhere. Turning down digic gain helps too.


Jesus Ocana

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #873 on: March 29, 2013, 12:09:29 AM »
Great work 1%, you are my hero!

I have installed ML on my new Canon 6D. All works fine but it freezes my camera when trying to make it work with DSLR Controller android app.

Is there any reason why DSLR Controller should not work on the 6D? It works great on my t2i...

Guys keep the great work!

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Re: Tragic Lantern for 6D
« Reply #874 on: March 29, 2013, 02:05:58 AM »
I have issues with sending LV over wifi or usb... camera just freezes. Looking into it, eventually gets an error 80 but unable to find what the actual error is. Want to try sending DLNA lv.. that might be worth recording and might help solve this problem too (canon docs say its possible but only see an empty canon directory). Any error messages would be helpful too.

The other functions like sending ptp commands and shooting over web should work. For now turn off the live preview.

*got the adapter today. Expo sim doesn't know what to do so its either over or under... have to try the patch.

Patch helps but I bought the adapter with movable aperture and setting it to anything but the widest setting results in darkening by expo sim. So I set lens to 8.0 and adapter to 8.0 and get an F16 exposim.