Tragic Lantern for EOS M

[Canon eos m]

Good bye! Don't come back!

gary2013, you have to understand that the whole business of photography is difficult when you are on the learning curve. Cameras are not easy beasts to contain. Add to that the complication of a new interface can make the whole experience daunting. The developers are no different - while their creative juices flow - they themselves are struggling to join the pieces of the puzzle. More challenging is to get what they have created understood and useable by the common audience like you and I.

Let me tell you my story. I have the 5DM3 and the EOS M. For various reasons the 5DM3 is a beast that has raw power unparalleled. But the downside is that it is big and it requires a very trained person to get the best results from it. Then there is the whole thing about video (and audio) vs. pictures. One day I tell myself that I will be a photographer of repute; and on another day shift to becoming a DoP on another. Using ML adds to the confusion since there are so many new features coming out all the time that lure you away from your resolve.

But, living with this chaos and internal conflict has made my resolve to learn only stronger. And, the EOS M keeps my passion going when I am daunted by the unknown. It is small but capable - in a very nice way. The results on the EOS M for general photography and video are the same (almost) to any other camera out there. My favorite feature of all ML is Dual_ISO. I just love love it.

RAW video on the EOS M, for now, is not the same thing due to the crop + 5X magnification. But RAW is RAW and it makes a difference when you need more punch.

My advice is try all the features the EOS M + ML have to offer and find out your personal favourite and follow the development of that feature all the way. The developers, members and supporters will help you get the hang of it.

Don't worry. Keep your faith. 

[gary2013]

 

[a1ex]

Can we have the audio meters working all the time? Currently, they only work during recording. It's important to see the meters before we record as well as during recording.

Can we get PLEASE get some more audio control by allowing stereo audio out thru the USB AV port AND keep the video showing all the time on the camera's LCD?

1%
Have you had any more progress with the audio we were talking about the other day as far as getting the AV cable/USB port to put out the audio while keeping the LCD turned on for video?

1%, any luck/progress with audio out/headphone? That is really the most important to me. Pretty pleez? :-)

what else can we do while 1% gets that audio headphone output working? 

1%, have you been pulled off of the M? I see the 5D and other cams getting worked on but the M seems lost. :-)  Please, I beg of you, please get the audio working with meters on full time and audio out thru the AV USB plug.

will it be possible to get the audio in the camera recording along with the raw video?

gary:
[...]
you gutta be patient with the devs, cuz, you know, we don't have a choice

I am patient. I just feel that someone has to remind or bring up things cus possibly there is so much going on with the devs they may forget about some things.

ok. can i politely put out another big request for audio out thru the AV USB port with headphones on the M? and full time meters.  :-)

Maybe bumping was not the best word for this. Anyone can suggest a better word? Adding the word "politely" while still asking for the same thing over and over doesn't help much.

I gave you the warning, and it was not a personal attack, but a hint that you should read the forum rules.

[gary2013]

 

[gary2013]

 

[EVVK]

I guess it is too much free time? 

Reminds me of a small company that had 4 project leaders/managers and 1 developer. The 4 had meetings every day what the developer could do, without letting the developer into the meetings to say his word.
So you can imagine the board meetings all day long: - Wish he could implement this new .... feature if he only had time.
So 4 barely technical people trying to come up with plans how to take over the world with the company. The ratio between planning and implementing wasn't obviously working, it was only slowing down but they where to blind to see that. That company would have crashed if the developer decided to quit his job.

Anyway with the above story in mind, I wouldn't imagine anyone wants something bad to this project, everyone want to help. Maybe Gary has good insight enough and could maintain like the EOSM wiki page/documentation for example. This thread would have been a lot smaller if the documentation was up to date, since this thread is the only source for up to date information.

It is too easy to bounce (stupid & already answered) questions here, I'm not referring to anyone personally here just my personal general observations of this thread.

[Dark-Master]

I would never have expected to see such a thing in any development forum. This is a good example.

Farewell, Gary.


I bow to all the devs and the community that let me have ML-enabled EOS M for daily use.

More options would never hurt me. I'm thankful to know ML does exist.

[Canon eos m]

This is not good. Please let us find a way to put this behind us. Gary, Alex, 1% and all can we make new beginnings please.

Gary - managing the forums is a big task and everyone is trying to do their best. Please don't take things personally - the forums are about learning and enjoying the process.

[funkysound]

This is not good. Please let us find a way to put this behind us. Gary, Alex, 1% and all can we make new beginnings please.

Gary - managing the forums is a big task and everyone is trying to do their best. Please don't take things personally - the forums are about learning and enjoying the process.

- definitly enjoying the process and loving all the wonders that do happen here! Wouldn´t be able to use my privat 600d in a professional manner too without ML. Same will happen to the cute little EOS M. 

[enricobartolucci]

Hi everybody
this is my first message on this forum ; I am a professional photographer and filmmaker based in paris. I've been using magic lantern on my markII since 2009, when hero trammel hudson first pulled this crazy reverse engeneering stunt turning the markII into a revolutionary filmmaking tool.
so, first I want to thank him and all the developers who have taken on the project and given us this incredible tool.
I have been donating to the project to keep it going, and I'll go on doing so, since I have been using ML professionally and I can't be grateful enough to the people who gave their time and talent to develop it.
now, I've just bought the eos m, which is now an incredible deal due to canon's short-sighted marketing strategy, and I think that - once powered with a stable ML release - it is maybe the ultimate independent filmmaking tool, the only real competitor to the blackmagic pocket CC - for one fourth of the price...
now, i've installed the last version of ML on my eos m; it has several stability problems and I can't get the focus peaking to work, but these are obviously fixable problems. what is more annoying is that once you are in video mode and you have the ML interface on, the rear wheel only changes the shutter speed, and not the iris - I tried to figure out how to fix this, but I couldn't, so here I am asking for help. the only way to do this seems to switch to the canon interface and change the iris value from there, or from the ML menu, but this is impossible to do while shooting.
THEN I think I can contribute to the developmental effort by posting some sort of a professional's whishlist, i.e. ALL the features and ONLY the features somebody who needs to use the camera as a professional filmmaking tool needs.
here they are, then

1 first and foremost: focus  peaking, as efficient as possible. this is absolutely necessary; this camera cannot be seriously used unless focus peaking works properly. all the other focus gimmicks are of no real  filmmaking interest and can be dropped.

2 obviously : zebra stripes. but this already works.

3 direct iris control from the rear wheel while shooting. mandatory. I will note here that canon made a great improvement on the M, since the iris change is very smooth, very cinema-like, while on the mark II there is a very noticeable click - it is almost a markII signature...

4 audio monitoring working all the time - but I'll put this at the end of the list, since if you're shooting professionnally you'll have a field mixer to amplify the signal and monitor audio levels, plus a separate WAV recorder, and will only use the in-camera sound as a sync tool. Having said that, I read that the M records uncompressed PCM audio, so maybe a separate audio recordind and post-sync might be unnecessary. I'll have to make tests but if it's really the case then the eos m really is my daddy now.

that's about it, I guess. of course raw recording is an interesting feature, but of no real interest for the documentary filmmaker - the workflow becoming then almost unmanageable. if you really want to have a better image quality you might rather get a separate PRORES recorder, like the one from blackmagic, but going raw is only reasonable if you are shooting commercials of music video, or a theatrical feature, and in my opinion the eos m is not the best option for this kind of productions.

of course I'm not saying these are the only important  features for any user, I'm just pointing out which are the features that matter to somebody who wants to shoot professional video with the eos M.
I think once these features are implemented and stable, documentary filmmakers will realize that the eos M is a real game changer, making high quality independent filmmaking available for everyone - for such a ridiculous price!

[gary2013]

Hi everybody... what is more annoying is that once you are in video mode and you have the ML interface on, the rear wheel only changes the shutter speed, and not the iris - I tried to figure out how to fix this, but I couldn't, so here I am asking for help. the only way to do this seems to switch to the canon interface and change the iris value from there, or from the ML menu, but this is impossible to do while shooting...

you can press the right arrow (the right side of the wheel) to switch between controlling the aperture and the shutter adjustment. I have requested that they change the way this is displayed since we never know which mode will be adjusted. I constantly keep having to try it and see which mode changes and then readjust it if it was on the wrong one from what I wanted. The Canon display is nice with the green marks above either the aperture or shutter indicating which one is active.

Gary

[enricobartolucci]

you can press the right arrow (the right side of the wheel) to switch between controlling the aperture and the shutter adjustment. I have requested that they change the way this is displayed since we never know which mode will be adjusted. I constantly keep having to try it and see which mode changes and then readjust it if it was on the wrong one from what I wanted. The Canon display is nice with the green marks above either the aperture or shutter indicating which one is active.

Gary

thanks gary, I hadn't done enough fiddling around to find the right key !

[jerrykil]

Hey guys, as far as focus peaking. I've had more luck with DIGIC peaking, but it obscures colors. it spares the battery, which has been a big problem with the EOS M for me. I carry 3 batteries with me and i think i lost one

[maxotics]

Maybe bumping was not the best word for this. Anyone can suggest a better word? Adding the word "politely" while still asking for the same thing over and over doesn't help much.

I gave you the warning, and it was not a personal attack, but a hint that you should read the forum rules.

"Rules" imply you have a common goal.  I don't know what that is here.  Everyone has their own idea of what the goal is.  Some, to make these production ready cameras, others to experiment with new features, others to protect the devs from stupid questions, I could go on....

I've watched Gary struggle with the 18-55 M shutter big with others, spending a lot of time and effort it trying to figure it out.  Giving him a warning and then saying it "isn't personal" is condescending.  Who are you to say what is personal and what isn't?  "It isn't personal."  I hear that from other moderators and I have to say it's immature.  Everything is personal.  Is it okay if I say that you are disrespectful and YOU have not read enough of Gary's posts to give him due respect.  Is it okay if I say that and then excuse it by saying it "isn't personal"?  If you think what you said to Gary is anything but condescending you should ask yourself, "how am I feeling reading these words Max wrote?"

Stand behind what you think.  If YOU think all his posts are bothering you tell him directly.  Just say, "Gary, I don't think you're going to get an answer about the audio monitor so I'd just let it go."  Recognize his problem.  Or, you might say "1%, can you please give some sort of estimate about how feasible it is because it seems it's very important to him" Propose a solution.  Is the best solution really a variant of "shut up"?

I'm sorry if this sounds like I"m attacking you.  But shouldn't you have feedback?  My feedback is everything is personal.  IF you don't mind losing people from the forum, like Gary, me, and others, then continue your work as a moderator who can dish it but can't take it (because you you have the power to ban).  If your goal is to further ML use and development and enjoyment, then you might want to take it personally, in a positive way, that you are our host.

Help us have a good time.  And by the way, I don't expect that this email will make me any friends.  I've taken the time to share my scripts, videos, and help others.  Why? Because I'm "personally" obsessed with it.  What you want to take away is the very thing that keeps us here.  All of us, I believe.

Finally, I often wonder what happened to the guys who wrote Pink Dot remover, RAWanizer, etc.  Why are they gone?  My conjecture is they didn't leave because they were reprimanded, but because others leave, because they don't feel welcome, and that the chaotic nature of these forums stops ML from getting a critical mass where people who do interesting stuff can get the consistent positive feedback they need to stay around and keep at. 

For every me, who speaks my mind, there are probably many others who just silently don't like the tone of these forums and leave without a word.

Yes, this is personal, but I hope you find it respectful Alex.  This matters to me.  Gary matters to me.  You matter to me.  Seriously.

[1%]

I actually read/wrote audio regs the first time (corectly I think) from 6D and EOSM follows the same pattern + has a data sheet. So we're getting closer to headphone.

Not straightforward at all to do some of this stuff. Its not that I'm not listening, just maybe I don't have a solution yet. If you ask again, what should I reply, "no not yet" over and over?

600D and M do get a little bit of the short stick right now because:
A. There are other more capable cameras with "low hanging fruit" reverse engineering that had to be done.

B. I can take along one camera, maybe 2, at a time to test in real world usage... not sitting on the couch snapping pics out the window.

If you think thats not fast enough... 7D didn't have audio controls for how many YEARS... or other basic features? Maybe everyone looked at the code 1000xS and didn't figure it out and for sure much better programmers than me. I know its frustrating when the only body you have doesn't do what you want but often this stuff takes time + luck and a lot of reading of assembly code/trial and error.

[maxotics]

1%, first, thank you for the update.  The last thing I want to do is be un-grateful, to you, Alex, or anyone who puts their time into this thing.  Unfortunately, what's obvious to you isn't obvious to me (and others) and what's obvious to us isn't obvious to you.  All I can speak about is what's frustrating to me.

I want to use the technology in a real world way and share what I know, what you've built, to others.  For example, I did this video, that shows others how to use what you've done.

I've done many videos.  I've staked out that part of the EOS-M ML world.  Gary has been working on the audio stuff and lens compatibility.  Alex must have his own areas of expertise. 

Anyway, the simple truth is that without you and the other devs we're nothing.  I NEVER forget that.  However, I want to make best use of my time.  I also don't want to embarrass myself any more than absolutely necessary  

When I did that video and then the PDR stopped working I felt a bit humiliated.   I had tried to talk others into using something that was now broken.  No one warned me.  When I went to seek help on the PDR thread, the devs were gone.  Thankfully, Rewind came to the rescue.  Not blaming everyone, just explaining my frustration.

I've offered to help.  Others have.  I know the moderators are doing the best they can.   I just feel these communication problems are hurting us all.  How can I make things easier for myself? 

I hate to criticize.  I really just want to enjoy what you've built.  It's just difficult when I know you can write a couple of sentences that would save me hours of ultimately wasted time.  Again, not a complaint, just a frustration.   Thanks for reading.

[1%]

I've been there too and whats frustrating is answering the same question over and over again even when someone like you wrote a guide. Some just don't read it...

Anyways, i've made some progess, IC can read write and having both datasheets in my hand the regs are just moved around so *maybe* it will work when i fix the reg addresses.

[jerrykil]

Hi everybody
this is my first message on this forum ; I am a professional photographer and filmmaker based in paris. I've been using magic lantern on my markII since 2009, when hero

very awesome, big welcome!

[imsofinite]

I don't mean to derail anyone's discussion, but I had just a couple of quick questions I'd like to ask really quickly:

First, is the download link on the first page up to date, or is there a more current version somewhere on these 71 pages of discussion I can find? Also, on the installation instruction page, it says that the page is not up to date; is there a more up to date link on how to install the newest version? I've used ML on my 60D, but that was some time ago, and I'm eager to start playing with it on my M.

Secondly, there are mainly two features that I'm interested in for ML, one of which I read on this page or the previous that there is a little bit of trouble with currently (focus peaking), but I'm not worried about it because I'm sure one of the incredibly intelligent developers will sort it out eventually, but what I haven't been able to find an answer for was whether this version will allow tethering. I would like to be able to plug my camera in to my tablet and use it for monitoring video. Is that an option, or is it in the works? I don't mean to rush anyone. I'm just curious.

Thank you, and I appreciate all of the development you guys are doing.

[WiGgLr]

You'll find a working version without the infamous shutter bug here (for camera firmware 2.0.2)

Follow the instructions in the link, they work well, only you two-finger tap screen to bring up ML with EOS-M

Hi Wigglr,
sounds like a good idea to me.
If I remember it right it´s easy to do. You just download the compiled version from Rootwang (post #1110 on side 45) and do the normal ML instalation which you can find here (even if EOS M is not mentioned because there is no official version till now - the procedere is the same) :
http://www.magiclantern.fm/install.html
Malakai explaned it too.

Edit, here is the link in post 1110 http://www.sendspace.com/file/37061u

[maxotics]

First, I apologize that I have had a few drinks (biz related).  I've started a page on how to install/re-install ML on the EOS-M.  I've also created a page for my vbscripts that apply to all RAW.  Maybe we can all get together and create certain MAN pages for the EOS-M that cover, what it can, cannot do.  What 1% is working on, or not working on, an why.  I love what 1% has done for the EOS-M camera an am very appreciative that he has not taken any post badly and is making an effort to help us lately.  Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of

1. INSTALLATION: Install/re-install ML (I've started a page on this, but we need links).
2. FEATURES: What we can expect, not expect on the EOS-M (1%?)
3. TESTING: What we can test, or how we can make ourselves to 1% if he needs us to test/try something?  The M IS lens issue? Etc.
4. DOWNLOADS: What files one can download, ML, PDR, etc., and some up-dated explanation of what does what.  I think this the most needed for newbies?
4. BEST PRACTICES?
5. EQUIPMENT: Too much shake with crop mode wth 22mm, but I find the EF 10-20mm good, etc.
6. NEWBIE POLICY: How do we welcome new members and get them up to speed as quickly as possible without telling them to search the forum from scratch?

Alex, do you think we should fork this EOS-M thread into sub-EOS-M topics?  (An efficient way to answer imsofinite's questions?) I think it would be productive if we can provide a link of pages that answer any question.  Even today, I don't know which is the most stable download for EOS-M, or which would be the best for dual-ISO, etc.  We don't have a separate thread for audio or the IS M lens issue (WiGglr, not sure this issue is truly solved?)

Thanks for your time.

[gary2013]

I think it would be good, especially for noobs, that the first page, first post be constantly updated so its easy to see and download the latest build along with simple step by step instructions to install and start using the ML menus. Over and over and over  (LOL) we tell people how to two finger tap the screen to start using ML And maybe have an alternative download on the first page/post to get to the last most stable build to start off their venture.

I agree the rootwang load did not solve the shutter bug, at least not for me. I think the people who say they do not have the bug will eventually get it if they go thru and use all the builds on their camera. Two days ago I started all over. I did a Canon format method that gives us the option to delete ML I then did a quick computer format and put it back in the camera and a new Canon format. I was surprised to see the bug still existed after all of that with no ML on the card. I then did a new computer format on my card, the long way that took almost two hours with my 128 GB card. I reinstalled the Canon 2.0.2 firmware again and the bug was gone. But, I then installed the latest ML files on the card just from drag and drop and I did not flash the ML firmware to install it on the camera and the bug showed up again just from having the ML files on the disk. The ML menus did not come up. so ML was not being used. Very strange.

Gary

[jerrykil]

http://www.bot-fly.com/magiclantern-v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep15.EOSM202.zip
newer build with the audio regs 1% was talking about

not sure if this makes a diff =D

edit: i want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that this is an alpha build and may set your camera on fire. use at your own risk. i don't want to find out why this fork is called "Tragic Lantern"
-poor student

[maxotics]

In the interest of creating a 1st page that always has our latest knowledge, like Gary suggested, can we start a new "Beta" thread?  Your thoughts, 1%?  Except for the shutter bug issue the latest build I have from 1% works very well for me.  I use either the 22mm or EF lens with adapter.   If everyone agreed, perhaps we could decide on having those first few pages man pages that each of us could be responsible for?  If, we think we can fix the shutter bug, which I believe is the biggest outstanding issue, maybe we can all rally to fix that and start the beta.  Most people who would/do buy this camera get it with that lens.

[1%]

That's what sucks, its a lens that comes with it....

If you guys can figure out how to edit the first pages sure. I'm not a mod so I don't have access to that. BTW digic peaking while recording causes issues with H264 videos stopping, so if your videos aren't finishing turn it off till I make it do that by itself.