.RAW to PSD

[Danson Delta-40]

Pardon my ignorance, but why is there no direct edit from .RAW files to PSD files? I am talking about a direct converter like batchelor, or RAWMagic, or Raw2DNG, I am not a coder or anything, but I am just wondering, because it seems like PSD would be way better, as it is supported in every single adobe application, I believe retains all the image data of a DNG or CR2, and on top of that it can be converted to 16 bit, so why is everything DNG and CDNG when it could be PSD and have everything be hunky-dory?


EDIT: Photoshop PSD files can utilize ACR in AE and PS, you just need to select the "camera raw" option when importing. Took me a couple tries to get it right but finally did.
Plus, PSD files use lossless compression, so smaller than tiffs, same quality, and more flexibility?

[Audionut]

What does PSD give over TIFF?

[dmilligan]

Not everyone uses Adobe applications. DNG is more widely supported amongst non-Adobe apps. It's better to support a format everyone can use rather than one only a few can. In terms of actual data, PSD doesn't provide any additional information over DNG (i.e. there is no data loss from .raw to .dng). Also the main developer doesn't use Adobe apps so he has little very incentive to implement something like that.

[Danson Delta-40]

What does PSD give over TIFF?

I read several times over on this forum that TIFF bakes in the white balance. Upon further review, the exposure settings are also baked in, and you lose the ability of ACR. I want to color grade LAST for my movies. Edit first color grade last.

[dmilligan]

I read several times over on this forum that TIFF bakes in the white balance. Upon further review, the exposure settings are also baked in, and you lose the ability of ACR. I want to color grade LAST for my movies. Edit first color grade last.

Nope, the demosaicing is baked into TIFF, but you can still use ACR and you can save a 16 bit TIFF (so you'd still have color and exposure flexibility). Only if you output a 8bit TIFF would you loose all that flexibility.

But what does TIFF have to do with anything? I thought we were talking DNG vs. PSD. None of the ML tools spit out TIFFs anyway. A PSD and a DNG, would contain exactly the same image information, 14bit (converted to 16 bit for compatibility with the format) undebayered RAW data. So why not use the one that is more widely supported?

DNG and TIFF are both subsets of TIFF/EP. TIFF and TIFF/EP are not the same thing. The DNG and TIFF/EP formats support RAW data, the TIFF format does not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_Image_File_Format_/_Electronic_Photography

[gary2013]

Not everyone uses Adobe applications. DNG is more widely supported amongst non-Adobe apps. It's better to support a format everyone can use rather than one only a few can. In terms of actual data, PSD doesn't provide any additional information over DNG (i.e. there is no data loss from .raw to .dng). Also the main developer doesn't use Adobe apps so he has little very incentive to implement something like that.

is it possible, or is there anyone that has, made an app to go from ML raw to psd for those of us that do have adobe apps? I use psd and it would save steps and time to just go to psd.

[chmee]

to be honest, i like the idea of converting straight to psd because of the all-adobe-wide usability. BUT psd cant cope with bayer-formed data, so we'd end in writing debayering-algorithms already existing and used in another tools transcoding to tif.

regards chmee

[gary2013]

to be honest, i like the idea of converting straight to psd because of the all-adobe-wide usability. BUT psd cant cope with bayer-formed data, so we'd end in writing debayering-algorithms already existing and used in another tools transcoding to tif.

regards chmee

I understand. but it wouldn't it save a step in the already too long process of raw to nle?

[dmilligan]

to be honest, i like the idea of converting straight to psd because of the all-adobe-wide usability. BUT psd cant cope with bayer-formed data, so we'd end in writing debayering-algorithms already existing and used in another tools transcoding to tif.

regards chmee

Actually, PSD can store raw data:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet-apps/photoshop/fileformatashtml/

[gary2013]

I have been going raw to dng to acr to psd. would be nice to go raw to psd. 

[mva]

I have been going raw to dng to acr to psd. would be nice to go raw to psd. 

Interesting. What's your workflow once you have the PSDs? What advantage(s) do you see them as giving you?

[gary2013]

I go straight to import seq in PPro CC and edit. I read somewhere that said going to PSD is better than Tif. I do not remember exactly why. Something about the PSD saves more info or something. I am recording 1280x720p24 16x9, crop mode, continuous to a Sandisk Extreme 45mb/s. Then PDR each raw file and then  raw2dng_cs2x2_ahdlike_noise.exe. Then import all the DNG's to Photoshop CC which pops up the ACR. Maybe apply exposure and color balance tweaks and then save all out as tiff file seq. Then I switched to save all out as PSD file sequence instead of tiffs. I now use MLV record for the ML raw in the M. But I now see there is no PDR for the MLV files. Fun, huh? 

[Danson Delta-40]

my anamorphic workflow consists of converting raw to cdng, then to PSD, then import to premiere, modify the footage to conform to 2:1 aspect ratio, and edit from there. however it takes forever and i have yet to automate the process. individual CDNG folders slows down the process a LOT for the PSD conversion.

[mva]

I go straight to import seq in PPro CC and edit.

I'm on CS6, don't have CC. I've been playing with workflows with DNGs (and sometimes proxies) based on a dynamic link between AE and PP. I'd like to try fitting Speedgrade CS6 into the picture, which is one reason I'm interested in the PSD option if it can preserve the raw data or something close to it. Since my computer is no beast, it would also be nice if it made for easier editing in PP than with the dynamic link to AE. I haven't been following the discussions about CC closely, but are you using PSDs because the recent update to PPro CC didn't end up supporting DNGs like people hoped? I'm guessing you can still dynamically (or directly?) link to AE and edit DNGs (or proxies) in PP. Is using PSDs easier or better for you than that?

[chmee]

@dmilligan
i just found one entry that seems to hint on that..

 0x0405 1029 Image mode for raw format files (in Image Resource IDs)
..in the Colorblock is no entry for supporting bayer-based rggb-pattern.

i dont have the time to try that by now. what is the workflow now to get a bayer-based (untweaked) psd?

regards chmee

[gary2013]

I'm on CS6, don't have CC. I've been playing with workflows with DNGs (and sometimes proxies) based on a dynamic link between AE and PP. I'd like to try fitting Speedgrade CS6 into the picture, which is one reason I'm interested in the PSD option if it can preserve the raw data or something close to it. Since my computer is no beast, it would also be nice if it made for easier editing in PP than with the dynamic link to AE. I haven't been following the discussions about CC closely, but are you using PSDs because the recent update to PPro CC didn't end up supporting DNGs like people hoped? I'm guessing you can still dynamically (or directly?) link to AE and edit DNGs (or proxies) in PP. Is using PSDs easier or better for you than that?

Using CC is not why. I actually did better using CS6 v7.0.1. I cannot get ACR now using AE and PPro CC. Adobe has admitted the new update 7.1 is doing something different when importing DNG files that is not correct. They still have not fixed it or said when they would have a newer update on that import procedure. I think people said they are using Speedgrade or Resolve to import DNG's and then save out as TIF or PSD. I am sorry I do not know more about the PSD instead of TIF or where I read about it. Maybe some other people can chime in here with more details. Just try PSD instead of TIF. it won't hurt anything.

[chmee]

@gary2013 all these workflows have one thing in common - they use applications to demosaic the bayer pattern - it makes no difference, if used ACR inside Photoshop or After Effects or via Lightroom or via the Debayering inside Speedgrade. The Result is a demosaiced RGB-Picture, no matter if jpg, tif or psd. In this moment, it makes really no difference anymore because the main problem (colormatrices, blacklevel, whitelevel and balance, demoaicing) is already solved - no tool should have now problems. AND if psd could contain raw cfa-pattern-formed data, i bet, you will have the same problems while importing the psd into any app, because it will recognise raw-pattern and this needs a conversion.

So, psd as working format is no alternative. (btw tif and dng's are lossless compressible as well)
i dont see any benefit, sorry..

regards chmee

[bnvm]

So, psd as working format is no alternative. (btw tif and dng's are lossless compressible as well)
i dont see any benefit, sorry..

Agreed, there is very little benefit with using psd over tiff, if any. Tif's are far more standard than psd, can be used with just about any software, and I am not sure what restrictions that might exist for exporting to psd anyway. Going to psd is a personal preference and is not really necessary. Besides to write out tif's one would want to go through ACR or Resolve to debayer the raw's so it is just as easy to export psd as it is tiff, at least with ACR. The only way it would be useful would be if you could extract psd's from the raw file directly, but the debayers in ACR and Resolve are the best and relying on something like dcraw for a direct raw to psd app would have a loss in performance and quality.

 I see a lot of confusion on this forum about DNG's, raw, and debayering. People just don't seem to get what makes raw different from regular images. I have seen several posts suggesting that DNG's could be re-exported out of AE, which is impossible since no app can re-bayer the data to get it back to raw not to mention that there would be no point in doing so.

[hjfilmspeed]

Cliphouse would be awesome! color correcting ml raw files directly would be amazing. only cliphouse is only for mac. BAAAAAAHHHH.