Author Topic: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III  (Read 103900 times)

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« on: October 27, 2013, 07:19:35 PM »

Here we go, finally our first 4K RAW video test made with the Canon 5D Mark III.  Following our 5D Mark II previous tests, we have exported the dng sequence in 3840x 2160 jpeg files directly from Lightroom. No moire and aliasing. We will make a tutorial about all of this soon, stay tuned!

Second 4K RAW video attempt made with the Canon 5D Mark III.  Following the previous handheld test http://youtu.be/gONtARNBrbw we have now shot on tripod, in order to get as much details as possible. The main experiment is to resize the 1920x1080 frames to 3840x 2160 from Lightroom.

IMPORTANT: Having analyzed and compared the original files with the re-sized ones, we have found no difference at all in terms of details. In conclusion, up-scaling the files is not going to actually "resuscitate" any "lost detail", not at all. But for sure, when we upload the video on Youtube (or Vimeo) and we then compare it with the HD version of it, it is clear enough that the "4K" version offers a superior and impressive quality, even when it is played in HD resolution. So, nothing revolutionary as some people is suggesting, unfortunately not at all. But worth a try. This is our definitive thought.

All the best.

The video has been shot on:
Canon 5D Mark III
Tamron SP 70-200mm f2.8 USD
CF Lexar Professional 1000x 32GB

Special thanks to EXIV

Music: "Yiourgh" by DoKashiteru (feat. Coblat)
http://ccmixter.org/files/DoKashiteru/21394
is licensed under a Creative Commons license:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/sampling+/1.0/

The video has been shot on:
Canon 5D Mark III
Tamron SP 70-200mm f2.8 USD
CF Lexar Professional 1000x 32GB

Special thanks to EXIV

Music: "Yiourgh" by DoKashiteru (feat. Coblat)
http://ccmixter.org/files/DoKashiteru/21394
is licensed under a Creative Commons license:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/sampling+/1.0

globalphotobank

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 07:32:09 PM »
So far so good :D

pascal

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 90
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 09:50:53 PM »
My monitor is 2k max :D

core_32

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 11:54:40 PM »
Quote
we have exported the dng sequence in 3840x 2160 jpeg files
I can export my dng sequence in 8k ;)

pascal

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 90
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 12:05:55 AM »
I should have read the description. The topic title is misleading. Yeah actually with upscaling you can achieve unlimited Resolution, haha.

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2013, 12:40:03 AM »
I should have read the description. The topic title is misleading. Yeah actually with upscaling you can achieve unlimited Resolution, haha.
But when you have the video on Youtube or Vimeo (that is the place where a corporate or a video like this is going to be) the "4K" video is actually and drastically better than the 1920x1080 version. So it make sense to test it and see if anything good can come from it. No miracles promised, just trying to push the footage at a relevant level. All the best.

2014-03-16 Update: the up-scaling experiment may really help when you plan to upload a video on the internet, since the HD version you get by uploading a 4K version of it (for example on Youtube) is always better then the one you get by uploading a video processed in HD (as all of us usually do). Here is a normal HD raw video, which I have just shot with the new ML version for the 5d Mark III 1.2.3 you can really see this is not as good as the HD version of the 4K tests. Because of the way Youtube compress the video, this seems less sharp than the one of the video posted above.

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2013, 01:42:22 AM »

djzigoh

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2013, 02:36:28 AM »
What's the point of this video? This is not a 4k raw attempt... Just footage scaled to 4k....I guess YouTube views??

Francis Frenkel

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
  • documentarist - filmmaker - DOP
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2013, 10:32:49 AM »
I should have read the description. The topic title is misleading. Yeah actually with upscaling you can achieve unlimited Resolution, haha.

You're totally right, Pascal !
But I like the idea of testing this aspect...

Because I've tried to compare 30 secondes of video shoot with a Canon 5D Mark3 in RAW .dng (1920x1080) and the same scene shoot with an Alexa 2K.
Then I've made a DCP and organised a comparaison in a small movie theater....
To be able to make the DCP we have upscaled the Magic Lantern Footage to 2k, and I was curious to see the result.
I've made some drastic modifications on the exposition and drastic color correction to compare the capacity of the 2  différent files (ARRIRAW and ML RAW)...

The result is just amazing.

The upscale does not destroy the quality of the ML file, it gives just a bit of sotness, wich is good for my point of view compare to the ARRIRAW wich is naturally soft.
Resolution, lattitude are same !
More than that, the upscale gives a cine  look to the image, compare to the "surgical precision" of the RED...

Thank you EXIV, your idea is not bad.

Fran6

Francis Frenkel
www.lucide-prod.com

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2013, 10:41:32 AM »
You're totally right, Pascal !
But I like the idea of testing this aspect...

Because I've tried to compare 30 secondes of video shoot with a Canon 5D Mark3 in RAW .dng (1920x1080) and the same scene shoot with an Alexa 2K.
Then I've made a DCP and organised a comparaison in a small movie theater....
To be able to make the DCP we have upscaled the Magic Lantern Footage to 2k, and I was curious to see the result.
I've made some drastic modifications on the exposition and drastic color correction to compare the capacity of the 2  différent files (ARRIRAW and ML RAW)...

The result is just amazing.

The upscale does not destroy the quality of the ML file, it gives just a bit of sotness, wich is good for my point of view compare to the ARRIRAW wich is naturally soft.
Resolution, lattitude are same !
More than that, the upscale gives a cine  look to the image, compare to the "surgical precision" of the RED...

Thank you EXIV, your idea is not bad.

Fran6

Thanks a lot Francis, I really support what you just said, also considering that when you open the file sequence on Lightroom you can also increase the sharpness of at least 60% (which is still amazing) without damaging the "softness" of the image. You see how testing with this technology is so important for all of us. By the way, please have a look at a more "tripod" kind of test made on the same landscape, and read my definitive thoughts about all of this.


Second 4K RAW video attempt made with the Canon 5D Mark III. Following the previous handheld test http://youtu.be/gONtARNBrbw we have now shot on tripod, in order to get as much details as possible. The main experiment consist in resizing the 1920x1080 dng frames to 3840x 2160 from Lightroom.


IMPORTANT: Having analyzed and compared the original files with the re-sized ones, we have found no difference at all in terms of details. In conclusion, up-scaling the files is not going to actually "resuscitate" any "lost detail", not at all. But for sure, when we upload the video on Youtube (or Vimeo) and we then compare it with the HD version of it, it is clear enough that the "4K" version offer a superior and impressive quality, even when it is played in HD resolution. So, nothing revolutionary as some people is suggesting, unfortunately not at all. This is our definitive thought.

Francis Frenkel

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
  • documentarist - filmmaker - DOP
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 08:01:44 AM »
Quote
you can also increase the sharpness of at least 60% (which is still amazing) without damaging the "softness" of the image

I dont think so EXIV...
On your exemple the sharpening is too much visible on the upscale sequence.
> Try to make the same experiment on a face, with hair on a solid color background and it will be visible and it will look ugly.

If you sharpen to much on the original image, and then upscale after : you upscale the "sharpening lines" on the borders of the objects in the image...and make it visible.
Try to sharpen a bit after (if you need too sharpen), not before.

Francis
Francis Frenkel
www.lucide-prod.com

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 01:19:31 PM »
I dont think so EXIV...
On your exemple the sharpening is too much visible on the upscale sequence.
> Try to make the same experiment on a face, with hair on a solid color background and it will be visible and it will look ugly.

If you sharpen to much on the original image, and then upscale after : you upscale the "sharpening lines" on the borders of the objects in the image...and make it visible.
Try to sharpen a bit after (if you need too sharpen), not before.

Francis

Hi Francis, thanks a lot for the suggestion. With the Canon 5D Mark II I couldn't really try to attempt that much, but with the Mark III it is actually working. By the way, have you got any idea of when will be available an official ML version for the Mark III?  I really would like the possibility to shoot more than HD in RAW...

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 03:04:30 PM »
Guys, why don't you make some test as well and then post it here, so we all can watch?! :)

pascal

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 90
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 12:25:21 AM »
By the way, have you got any idea of when will be available an official ML version for the Mark III?
Like Canon taking ML and releasing it as firmware?

painya

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
  • 6d 50d 550d 5dc
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 04:09:16 AM »
By the way, have you got any idea of when will be available an official ML version for the Mark III?
http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/faq
The very bottom of the page has the release date  ;D
Good footage doesn't make a story any better.

KieranEllisJones

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 08:48:12 AM »
Stunning!

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2013, 01:14:49 PM »

shahed26

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2013, 09:56:06 PM »
Wow. Awesome stuffs

guilhermemartins

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • 5D2+KB x1000 32gb+ some Nikkor Lenses
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2013, 01:02:19 AM »
I get great results exporting to 3k+ an than downscaling to 1080 on my MKII. I'm actually quite frustrated that ACR 8.2 does not give you "suggestions" of up and downscale anymore. Before it would give you from 3 to 5 different default options. On an usual MKII cr2 file would be 21mp (default) 25mp (upscale) and 18mp and 12mp downscale. Now you have to do the math yourself. What the f... Is wrong with this adobe people anyway?

I have been using ML for all my production company`s jobs since the release of 2.3. most of them available at.
www.mariachisaudiovisual.com.br

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2013, 02:46:27 AM »

1%

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5936
  • 600D/6D/50D/EOSM/7D
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2013, 04:48:14 AM »
This is cool because 600D and other SD cams have to make do with less and always upscale. I guess this is what happens when you do it to 1080P footage, wonder how 50D and 7D would compare.

Quote
Now you have to do the math yourself. What the f... Is wrong with this adobe people anyway?

I know, I enjoyed default up-scaling options too.

kgv5

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2013, 09:26:10 AM »
Does ACR ver 7 have upscale feature? I cannot find it anywhere...
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

Rewind

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2013, 10:02:20 AM »
Does ACR ver 7 have upscale feature? I cannot find it anywhere...


Andy600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1851
  • Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2013, 12:44:56 PM »
Do you guys not see this or something?  ???


Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

EXIV

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: First ever 4K raw video attempt on a Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2013, 11:55:00 AM »
Do you guys not see this or something?  ???



Andy, would you like to make a test as well and share it here? We would love to see others experimenting on this.