Author Topic: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III  (Read 107683 times)

alikapadia

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Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« on: October 19, 2013, 03:03:34 AM »
It is my understanding so far that even with the Magic Lantern, the Canon 5D Mark III can not do a full 1080p HD 60fps slow-mo. Can someone explain why this is not possible? (or if there is a way to do this, some instructions will be great!). I know that it can do a smaller resolution 60 fps so that you can scale it up in post, which doesn't sound like a great thing to do, but I don't see anything on 1920 x 1080.

Is this something that is even at least possible in the future through Magic Lantern or is this a hardware limitation?

I did come across this video with some slow mo shots in it:

Here the poster claims they did a 1920 x 1080 full HD 60 fps in the description, using a Canon 5D Mark III with magic lantern. In the comments, he mentions that if your card is fast enough, it can do 10 seconds of slow mo as he was able to. However, I don't see anything online to support this. I thought that the Canon 5D Mark III could not write fasted than 100 mbps, so after a point, your card speed shouldn't really matter. Can anyone clarify?

Thank you in advance!

RenatoPhoto

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2013, 03:36:37 AM »
1920x672 in RAW mode at 60 fps requires 129 Mb/s
Not possible to write that fast.
I have a 1000x Lexar pro and only get about 5 seconds or recording.

At 48 fps it requires 103.3 MB/s  I can get about 30 second or recording with raw_rec, and with new development of mlv_rec get 40 seconds.
at 48 fps and 1856x650 is possible to get continuous recording.

More info here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5472.0
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mrnv45

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2013, 04:14:51 AM »
when i import into final cut. i set my image length to 0.1 it does a pretty cool slow motion effect. without having to create it slowmotion

alikapadia

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2013, 08:23:05 AM »
@mrnv45 I understand that there are options to slow down footage in post but I think it's best to keep them as secondary or fallback options. Best to get as much out of the camera as possible.

1920x672 in RAW mode at 60 fps requires 129 Mb/s
Not possible to write that fast.
I have a 1000x Lexar pro and only get about 5 seconds or recording.

At 48 fps it requires 103.3 MB/s  I can get about 30 second or recording with raw_rec, and with new development of mlv_rec get 40 seconds.
at 48 fps and 1856x650 is possible to get continuous recording.

More info here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5472.0

@RenatoPhoto Thanks. Is it just the CF Card's speed that's the limitation, or the Camera's ability to write that fast? Lexar advertises the 1000x Lexar Pro's write speed as 145 MB/s. So, shouldn't 60 fps work for you?

PressureFM

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2013, 10:29:33 AM »
Stop making multiple threads about what is essentially the same topic, whether you should buy the Canon 5D Mark III or the new Sony A7R, please.

Read a little about Magic Lantern to understand its limits and why the CompactFlash or SD card isn't always what is making the limitations.

RenatoPhoto

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2013, 01:01:13 PM »
@RenatoPhoto Thanks. Is it just the CF Card's speed that's the limitation, or the Camera's ability to write that fast? Lexar advertises the 1000x Lexar Pro's write speed as 145 MB/s. So, shouldn't 60 fps work for you?
I dont think anyone has gotten a write speed to the CF Card that exceeds 105 MB/s.  Is it the card or is it the camera?
Since these high speeds are just reaching the new CF cards there seems to be a gray area.

For example I have a USB 3.0 Lexar card reader and a raid configuration with Sata 6GB/s and can only write at 90 to 100 MB/s from my computer to my card.  So it would seem to me that the card is not capable of faster write speeds.  I tested this with actual RAW files.  With the same set up I can copy files from my card to the computer at 110 to 120 Mb/s.

I have not seen any card benchmarks (in camera) that support faster writing speeds than 100-103 MB/s
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alikapadia

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2013, 06:43:51 PM »
Since these high speeds are just reaching the new CF cards there seems to be a gray area.
@RenatoPhoto Makes sense. Thanks a lot!

Stop making multiple threads about what is essentially the same topic, whether you should buy the Canon 5D Mark III or the new Sony A7R, please.

Read a little about Magic Lantern to understand its limits and why the CompactFlash or SD card isn't always what is making the limitations.

@PressureFM my A7R questions is way different, for a different section, focusing on all the capabilities of these new cameras and where the innovation is leading in the future, and what it means for the 5D3 ML space in its entirety. It is aimed to pick on what the ML pros think (isn't that what this forum is about!?). This thread is about understanding the technical reasons behind the existing 60 fps full HD limitations on the 5D3 with ML. Wouldn't you have been more helpful if you had just written out these said limitations, instead of saying "Read a little about Magic Lantern".

I already have read plenty about ML. It was this lack of discussion on why the 1080p 60 fps was not possible that got me curious. I also know that the 5D3 by default can write 100 MB/s to a CF card. What I couldn't find, was in what ways can the ML hack push this limit, for example, the kind of affects the buffer size hack can have, enabling few more seconds of full 1080p HD slow mo. I can see here that the buffer when hacked, is changed from 32x4 to 32x6. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQ2MOkAZTFHdFFIcFp1d0R5TzVPTVJXOEVyUndteGc#gid=5 I was hoping to learn more about what that meant, especially for slow mo.

Anyways, thanks for the help. RenatoPhoto's answer was somewhat what I was looking for.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2013, 04:00:41 AM »
Its not so much the speed as ive read the cf card reader in the 5d3 can write at 150mbs last i herd. of course the card needs to be quick too. and you cant trust the speed they say on the front of the pack. theres a possibility that the card speed could reach that but cant sustain it.

as was mentioned a while back the resolution limitation is something implemented by canon. the raw live view feed changes as soon as you put it in 60p mode. its probably canons way to speed up the sensor reed out so that its possible to hit 60fps.

I can shoot a lot of frames at 48fps 1920x508 (2:35:1) with 5d3 and 128 gig 1050x komputer bay card oct 8 nightly. It says continuous. It looks really good too.

1:08-1:13, 1:33-1:43, 2:11-2:18 ect its all better then canon 720 60p mush thats for sure. in fact ML slow mo is sharper then canons normal 24p so its a major improvement.


alikapadia

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2013, 08:18:02 AM »
Thanks hjfilmspeed, and nice video! What's the maximum fps you have ever gotten while maintaining the 1920 x 1080?

hjfilmspeed

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 08:34:17 PM »
Well its hard to say theres alot of variables. 5d3 doesnt flinch at 24p thats for sure. how far above that depends on what card you use and what you have enabled. I think i was able to get 5 seconds or more at like 32fps (fps overide in canon 30p mode. In that mode fps override maxes out at 34.4 something) but i cant remember.  Also once you go into 60p mode the maximum height you can get is 672. Thats why i like to shoot at 2:35:1 cuz i can bounce around to different frame rates and not have to worry to much about buffer.

Robi

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 02:04:39 PM »
Lexar® Professional 1066x CompactFlash® card 256GB & 512GB

Haven't found any vid tests for the write speeds.

*Up to 160MB/s read transfer, write speeds lower. Speeds based on Internal testing. Actual performance may vary.

**When paired with a UDMA 7-enabled reader, sold separately.

***Image or other data recovery is not 100% guaranteed.

carlosm86

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2014, 04:47:06 PM »
seeing as the Ninjablade was announced a few days ago, would shooting 1080P @ 60fps be possible now as its a recoding format now supported by the Atomos Recorder?

mixmastermike

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2014, 07:06:53 PM »
Here's the Benchmarks for a 64Gb Lexar 1066x CF.



The card would not do Full HD at 30p, Member "Markus" got hold of a 1200x Komputerbay that had faster benchmarks than the 1066x and that card would not do Full HD @ 30P.

Quoted data rates and data rates achievable by the camera are different, it's not the card it's the camera that bottlenecks the write speed.

MLV_REC when working will be able to push this further by utilizing and extra 20MB/s write from the SD card (Card Spanning) If I'm correct, that looks like the only possible way that faster data write speeds will be achievable.

ibrahim

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 01:54:29 PM »
What is the 5d3's CF-card interface limited to in MByte/s write speed?

What write speed is required for a CF-card to record at 60fps at a resolution of 1920x1080 (or close to) continuously on a 5D3?
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Walter Schulz

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 02:06:11 PM »
I told you the math before. Okay, here we go again:
1920 x 1080 x 60 x 14 / 8 = 217 728 000 Byte/s -> 207,7 MByte/s

- There is no such CF-card and never will be one.
- UDMA 7 is specified for 167 MByte/s
It simply won't work for continuous recording.

Benchmark test runs by DeafEyeJedi (and others): http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12630.msg133459#msg133459

ontheset

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 01:26:47 PM »
What if you use an external HD recorder?

Walter Schulz

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 01:48:27 PM »
HDMI?

JADURCA

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2015, 02:13:57 PM »
Can anyone picture an Atomos looks like product, that uses a costume CF cable that connect one end to the Mark3 and the other to an external fast SSD with a hot shoe? Maybe someone that design such a product could make some money. Two models, one with external monitor (more expensive) and the other without monitor (cheaper). Maybe like that we can achieve the fastest writing speeds and the camera will be the limitation. Just dreaming...  :)

budafilms

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2015, 07:45:58 AM »
  ;)

ARankin

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2017, 09:01:19 PM »
What if I want to have higher fps, but don't care about/need raw? FPS override is only giving me 38 are there any other options? surely by ditching RAW you reduce the write speeds back down to something manageable? or does rolling shutter become an issue? does anyone know?

dfort

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2017, 07:39:00 AM »
What if I want to have higher fps, but don't care about/need raw?

Have you looked into the crop_rec module with H.264?


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Skyfilm

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Re: Full 1080p HD 60p Slow Mo in Canon 5D Mark III
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2017, 10:44:58 AM »
Can I record 1080 50p on 5D markIII not in RAW?
Thanks.