Author Topic: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom  (Read 184990 times)

SteveScout

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2013, 03:02:58 AM »
Hey, Steven, thanks again for your great work on VISIONLOG.

For everyone interested in working with this preset I put together a detailed workflow description on how to process the files in After Effects and how to de-log the images later in color correction or in editing.

Check it out and let me know if I can make improvements to the article!

http://hackermovies.com/hackermovies-magic-lantern-raw-workflow-guide


Steffen

Andy600

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #101 on: December 05, 2013, 02:18:22 PM »
@Steven Griffith - Hey Steven. I've been using your very useful Log DCP on the 50D but it has issues with red highlights turning vibrant pink. It's definitely the DCP that causes the issue because it doesn't happen with Canon DCP recipes or in Davinci Resolve. Hope you can fix it because the log profile in ACR gives the best results.

See this thread: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9461.msg90793;topicseen#msg90793


Cheers

Andy
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

hmcindie

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #102 on: December 08, 2013, 04:05:59 PM »
Remember guys that if you don't change the color output in AE to Trillions of colors, it will still render in 8 bits (inside a 10 bit file). It's not enough to change the codec to 10bits and make sure the project is 16. The output setting has to be Trillions instead of Millions.

I wonder how many people have actually been rendering 8-bit all along thinking it was 10-bit and never noticing any problems.

evanamorphic

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #103 on: December 14, 2013, 07:36:01 PM »
Great work @simulacro, @hjfilmspeed! Really glad you find VisionLog beneficial to your workflow. (And as a non-photographer it's certainly good to see the profile amounts to more than just a bunch of color matrices)  ;)

Are there any plans of releasing something like VisionLOG for Resolve 10? While I do love the ACR output of VisionLOG files, the workflow and length of time it takes to process the DNGs is rather impractical...

Midphase

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2014, 08:40:21 AM »
Are there any plans of releasing something like VisionLOG for Resolve 10? While I do love the ACR output of VisionLOG files, the workflow and length of time it takes to process the DNGs is rather impractical...

There is a VisionLOG Lut in this package, you could use that in Resolve.

http://vision-color.com/m31/

Midphase

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2014, 09:03:05 AM »
I'm kinda confused. So I just bought the M31 LUT package hoping that this would get me a similar result in Resolve as I am in ACR, but unfortunately this is not the case.

When I use Vision LOG in Aftereffects, I get this:



When I use Vision LOG in Resolve I get this:



And when I use the regular Resolve ML raw settings (CinemaDNG, BMD Film) I get this:



What exactly is going on here?

I'm trying to export ProResHQ files as close to LOG as possible from a shoot we just did using ML raw on 7D's and 5D3's. There is (unfortunately) a pretty good chance that the project will stick with ProResHQ all the way through the color grading stage and finishing. I would like to give the production as much information in those ProResHQ files as possible since there's a pretty good chance they will not go back to the CDNG files for final grade.

I would prefer to do all the conversions in Resolve. Using Aftereffects and ACR is not particularly desirable as it could add days to my work schedule and they have definitely not budgeted for that. In Resolve I can bring everything in, set it up for export and it's easy and fast.

Any ideas?

Many thanks!

avasarin

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2014, 10:07:56 AM »
I would prefer to do all the conversions in Resolve. Using Aftereffects and ACR is not particularly desirable as it could add days to my work schedule and they have definitely not budgeted for that. In Resolve I can bring everything in, set it up for export and it's easy and fast.

Any ideas?

Many thanks!
Hi Midphase,
I agree with you when you want to do all the conversions in Resolve.
I think that ACR and resolve manage differently the RAW information of DNGs. Have you try to balance the shot after the LOG or BMD film conversion? I mean, if you want a starting point bright as the ACR one, can't you simply raise your gain and highlight and push them where you want? I'm just supposing. You can always refer to the scopes.
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Midphase

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #107 on: January 19, 2014, 04:34:48 PM »
if you want a starting point bright as the ACR one, can't you simply raise your gain and highlight and push them where you want? I'm just supposing. You can always refer to the scopes.

Sure, but the question is...is this going to give the largest amount of information to the colorist or am I actually doing more damage by increasing noise and possibly blowing out highlights?

I'm trying to figure out the most efficient, yet truest to the original CDNG way to create ProRes files for the post production pipeline.

avasarin

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2014, 11:17:11 PM »
I'm not a technician, so I can't tell you which LOG conversion will give you the most of the image information, but I can share my experience.
I'm grading in Davinci resolve natively DNGs, with BMD raw conversion, and then I apply a custom LUT, and you can find it here:
.
I suppose that you can convert all your footage with BMD and export it let's say PRORES 4444, and then you can give the colorist this LUT here as a starting point. Results are quite impressive. And I think that PRORES 4444 will give you and the colorist all the latitude you need.

Here you can see the BMD flat.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9ifu08jc69dcze/BDM%20flat.png

Here with the Hunter's LUT applied.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pdin95o7ex1127b/BDM%20LUT%20applied.png

And here with some grading.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vg02zacl2vnun3g/BDM%20LUT%20graded.png

This is done working with DNG, but I think that PRORES 4444 will give you the same results.
5dmk2 - Nikkor set(20-28-35-50-105mm), Vivitar 85-105 - BMPCC
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Midphase

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #109 on: January 20, 2014, 01:23:47 AM »
I get what you're saying.

I'm dealing with two issues here:

1. The production might grade on the ProRes files I give them as opposed to going back to CDNG's and I'm concerned about doing some damage to the video image by applying the wrong LUT or wrong settings in Resolve.

2. The Blackmagic/BMD settings in Resolve yield a really crappy image to edit to. Not flat mind you, just extremely dark.

3. I really would prefer to drag everything into Resolve to output rather than go through ACR. There are hundreds of files that I need to covert and it's simply not feasible for me to use ACR which adds that much extra work for each shot.

I am not expecting perfection, but I would like to use Resolve and export Quicktime ProResHQ files (ProRes 4444 seems like a waste since there isn't an alpha channel on the footage) that contain as much information from the CDNG files as possible. I am really liking the look I'm getting in ACR with VisionLOG, now how do I get close to that with Resolve?

FWIW, I am finding that by changing the settings in Resolve as follows:

CinemaDNG
Color Space: Rec709
Gamma: sRGB
Highlight Recovery: On

and inserting the VisionLOG LUT I get an image that is considerably closer (but not quite) to what I get in ACR....but is it true LOG or even close to containing the amount of information needed for a good grade?


avasarin

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2014, 07:53:41 AM »
When you can output in a lossless codec(PRORES 422 HQ, f.e.) you will be just fine while color grading.
The point is that if you have a starting image with deep color information and wide color latitude and you can export preserving them (with PRORES 422 you can do this), you'll have this information on the exported files to play with in Davinci. Once again, I'm not a technician, I rely just on my experience.
5dmk2 - Nikkor set(20-28-35-50-105mm), Vivitar 85-105 - BMPCC
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iaremrsir

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #111 on: January 27, 2014, 08:49:12 PM »
If I understand correctly, you're using the M31 LUT trying to convert your footage to log? Is it a utility LUT like the one that comes with OSIRIS, called REC709 to Log? Or is it M31 Log? Because the latter will take a log input and transform it to REC709 with the M31 color transform, while the former takes REC709 and puts it into a log color space.

Alex Parkinson

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #112 on: January 28, 2014, 12:06:34 PM »
Hi all,

I'd love some help. I'm sure it's a simple issue but has anyone got any ideas on what I'm doing wrong as I can't access the vision log profile in either After effects or lightroom.
I've put the vision log folder in Hard Drive/library/application support/adobe/cameraRaw/cameraProfiles/visionLOG

Any help would be awesome.

Ta

nick.p

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #113 on: January 28, 2014, 12:28:21 PM »

Hard Drive/library/application support/adobe/cameraRaw/cameraProfiles/visionLOG
You have to put it in the user library. Try hd/yourusername/library/youknowtherest

Alex Parkinson

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #114 on: January 28, 2014, 01:07:27 PM »
Got it now.

I had to unhide my hidden folders.

All good. Thanks

Steven Griffith

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #115 on: January 31, 2014, 04:40:34 PM »
Midphase,
sorry for not responding earlier but I just came across your posts. We've actually created a very accurate LUT to get BMD Film to the VisionLOG gamma and color space. While the resulting images are almost identical low light color response in the ACR-debayered versions is slightly better. Here's an example my colleague prepared to demonstate the effect of the LUT and the gradeability of the resulting image (compressed source, obviously).

(1 - BMD Film color space & gamma in Resolve, 2 - BMD2VisionLOG LUT added in a node, 3 - Primary CC with an Osiris LUT thrown in):


We'll add a free download link to the VisionLOG page (www.vision-color.com/visionlog) within the next few hours.
Steven Griffith | VisionColor
www.vision-color.com
support@vision-color.com

rtf

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #116 on: February 08, 2014, 09:17:49 AM »
Is there already a solution for the raw2dng converter not embedding the camera EXIF data in ACR? I get the canikon, like some others here.

Steven Griffith

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #117 on: February 10, 2014, 08:44:04 PM »
Quote
Is there already a solution for the raw2dng converter not embedding the camera EXIF data in ACR? I get the canikon, like some others here.
We've actually included a Canikon (capital C) profile but I'm not sure if there are other restrictions that would prevent VisionLOG from showing up. In case your exif data lables the camera model "canikon" (no capital C) try to add this profile to the folder and see if it shows up in ACR: http://www.mediafire.com/download/8rbw7rnp77wibma/VisionLOG_canikon2.dcp
Steven Griffith | VisionColor
www.vision-color.com
support@vision-color.com

jacktortuga

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #118 on: February 11, 2014, 09:31:32 AM »
help guys, i tried downloading the vision log and copied it my CameraRaw folder. i opened lightroom 5 but it still wasnt there at the Camera Calibration.
tried restarting lightroom multiple times with no avail. it wont load.

Im using a Macbook Pro 2011 with a Lightroom 5

rtf

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #119 on: February 11, 2014, 02:18:30 PM »
We've actually included a Canikon (capital C) profile but I'm not sure if there are other restrictions that would prevent VisionLOG from showing up. In case your exif data lables the camera model "canikon" (no capital C) try to add this profile to the folder and see if it shows up in ACR: http://www.mediafire.com/download/8rbw7rnp77wibma/VisionLOG_canikon2.dcp

Thanks. Got it all working by using the MLV Converter 1.8.1. and updating ACR. It's a great profile.

Steven Griffith

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2014, 11:47:18 AM »
BTW since the VisionLOG to Rec.709 LUT (www.vision-color.com/visionlog) outputs essentially the Prolost Flat gamma and gamut you can use it for a color accurate Filmconvert workflow!
Steven Griffith | VisionColor
www.vision-color.com
support@vision-color.com

chrishelms

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #121 on: February 19, 2014, 08:44:24 PM »
Hey there,

I'm just trying out the following workflow:

MLRAW -> CDNG -> DAVINCI (interpret as BMD Film for Color and Gamma) -> BMDFilm to VisionLOG -> Export to ProRes 422 HQ

When I use a LUT like M31 through LUT Buddy in Premiere the image has a lot of noise



Premiere applied LUT to VISIONLOG Davinci (bigger size http://i.imgur.com/Fb8cJTk.jpg)


Original DNG

The footage is very dark so not ideal to judge the noise but I noticed a strong noise pattern on shadows in correctly exposed footage as well.


UPDATE I just looked at the ACR workflow, applying the VISIONLOG LUT in After Effects to the same clip and the Noise profile is much less visible. The debayer definately still makes a big difference between Davinci and ACR. I still think I'm going to go with the Davinci worflow since we have quick turnarounds and lots of data to process. I guess I have to learn ETTR to avoid the noise!

joaomoutinho

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #122 on: March 06, 2014, 03:29:24 PM »
Hi guys,

So, I am trying to set a good RAW workflow, and it seems to be endless possibilities of doing everything before even start, I would like to give a wrap up of my understanding, just to make a review on what should be the "perfect workflow" 

1- Use rawanizer to convert .RAW into .DNG

2- Use AfterEffects to make the "videos"  (use the AdobeCameraRaw and choose VisionColor camera profile) - Open the neatvideo noise reduction and reduce the noise - Use a grain image (like rGrain stocks) and apply to the composition  -  Export in uncompressed mode (is this correct?!)

3- Inport this videos to Davinci resolve and, because you are working in the BMDFilm Color space - apply the BMDFilm-Visioncolor LOG lut  - than do the colour work and transform things like you want to.

4- Export in DNxHD 185mbit    And Voilá,   You have the video with the best possible Quality.


Am I completely wrong? Just because I never seem to get the quality I watch in some videos of the Magic Lantern community! It is really a bad feeling...  Hope we can talk about the "best universal way to get things done"


Thanks a lot guys!!

Luiz Roberto dos Santos

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #123 on: March 06, 2014, 05:03:04 PM »
Hi guys,

[...] Use a grain image (like rGrain stocks) and apply to the composition  -  Export in uncompressed mode (is this correct?!)

3- Inport this videos to Davinci resolve and, because you are working in the BMDFilm Color space - apply the BMDFilm-Visioncolor LOG lut  - than do the colour work and transform things like you want to. [...]

So, I use this workflow too, but, I believe there are two points where you went wrong in your flow: application of grain and color space.
Every type of texture is applied after the color grade, otherwise it will have a negative effect on texture.
What about the color space, you must work with the same color space throughout the flow. Note that you will initially use sRGB (set by defaut on AE), which is a very small space, and is subsequently you convert this to a larger profile. This way you are not taking advantage of all the information, on the contrary, after the first render you ruled out all this information.
Try to work the entire process from the BM space or work in ProPhoto RGB since the beginning...

Andy600

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Re: VisionLOG profile for ACR & Lightroom
« Reply #124 on: March 06, 2014, 05:32:53 PM »
I've looked at lots of 'dark' footage from ML users in the past few weeks and no matter if they use our Cinelog profile, VisionLog or go straight into Resolve and use BMDFilm the one common issue with all of it is under exposure.

ETTR is important in this context but users should also remember that their cameras have a limited dynamic range and some of the footage I have seen would extend well beyond what their camera is capable of capturing without using HDR or Dual ISO. In these scenarios a degree of clipping to highlights is needed in order to optimize the signal to noise ratio. Some users are also not using higher ISO's for some reason (noise?) and this actually leads to more FPN being noticeable. Don't be scared of using higher ISO values up to 1600 ISO! If you are using a 'slow' kit lens this is especially relevant because you can't get enough light through the aperture.

My advice, especially when shooting in available light is not to try and capture every last bit of highlight information at the expense of midtones and shadow information. Just because we can shoot raw doesn't change the hardware limit of your camera sensor. ETTR by all means but push exposure up and clip some highlights if your midtones are underexposed as a result, or your footage will suffer. It's much better to get this bit right when shooting than rely on heavy noise reduction in post.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com