Author Topic: Canon 70D (Read 611583 times)

josepvm · « **Reply #225 on:** October 13, 2014, 06:39:08 PM »

The new 7D Mk II has Dual-Pixel AF and a CF card slot.

ShootMeAlready · « **Reply #226 on:** October 13, 2014, 07:46:39 PM »

Thanks Fletch for the video.

The 70D RAW video expect in 16:9 aspect 1280x720 @ 24fps continuous. If one changes the aspect to 2.35, then one can shoot 1280x544 @ 30fps continuous. If you use 2.35 aspect then you can shoot 1152x350 (1.4X post stretch to 1152x490) @ 60fps continuous. It will also do 1920x1080 @ 11fps (crop mode) and 1920 at 2.35 aspect 15fps, and at 2.67 aspect 17fps .... all of which is good for establishing shots with minimal motion. If we look at the 6D (which is closest in memory and controller speed) 1792x1008 (no crop) for 120 frames (5s) @ 24 fps with motion (I expect at 1920x1080 with crop it would be close to 5s). This is based on a 40 MB/s controller, so memory card write speed (which is unreliable as it says "up to") should be 50 MB/s+ to realize this.

FF have bitch of time to nail focus on moving subjects (all the Shallow DOF is too much), the 70D is the B camera for Rack focus shots and well lit action shots. The 5D mark iv rumoured for Q1 2015 release may do it all, have the FF & 70D focus system (or enhanced version), the tea leaves need consultation on that but some are suggesting it will. Even when it comes out, there will be some time before its shooting raw (1 year lets guess), as it will likely be a new code base for the ML team to ferret their way through - so the long and the short of it is the 70D will be the best HDSLR AF in town for a while.

fletch_cinebootcamps · « **Reply #227 on:** October 14, 2014, 07:32:01 AM »

Thanks, Shoot...

Is there a ML update for the 70D? I didn't think there was one yet to try out.

Best,

Fletch

nikfreak · « **Reply #228 on:** October 14, 2014, 02:21:24 PM »

Looks much better now. Had some headaches last days with one problem keeping me stucked in QEMU and btw I had some ppl writing me and wanting to help who later tried out some stuff on their own cams. Don't do this on your cam. I do everything on my local machine and need to push updates to bitbucket. You might brick your cam if you try experimental stuff on your cam

http://pastebin.com/bzy6a858

nikfreak · « **Reply #229 on:** October 14, 2014, 02:51:48 PM »

Last but not least: it boots up in QEMU now (in my virtualbox) but still showing ~~lots of~~ some errors but it boots

. Don't flood me now with PMs plz. I can't say for sure that this will work immediately on a 70D. For now it only does in QEMU.
I am planning to work on this in my spare time. This was a nice adventurous journey for me in regards of learning QEMU and learning how ML code parts are related to each other.

fletch_cinebootcamps · « **Reply #230 on:** October 14, 2014, 06:31:12 PM »

This is a deep question for someone whose been "under the hood" of these Canon DSLRs. Is the 70D's sensor noise (visible dancing in the gray tones when you get above ISO 800/1000 filming video) 1) just a function of the sensor itself and the 70D's ML RAW video will never look as good as the 5D M3's ML RAW video, or 2) a product of the cheaper components used for compression in the 70D (so if Canon put better components in, the "noise" would not be apparent until you reached ISO 1250 or even 2500), or 3) the processing path in the 70D is the same as the 7D's but Canon has turned off a few noise filters to degrade the image to align with the 70D's price point (and make the 7D seem like a "step up" in quality)?

I heard that often it costs so much to make a variety of chips that Japanese manufacturers had the same chips in their gear, and they would deactivate and activate features to make the higher priced gear appear better, but the innards are all the same.

With that said, here is my final question: So, has the ML update that's working in other Canon DSLRs helped other Canon DSLR sensors become more noise free? Or is the sensor/processing flow just "noisier" and the ML workaround won't bypass the "don't fix the noise" switches I'm guessing exist?

dmilligan · « **Reply #231 on:** October 14, 2014, 08:52:09 PM »

Noise is a very complicated (and often very misunderstood) subject. I hope you enjoy reading:
http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/index.html
http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/iso/
http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/evaluation-canon-5diii/index.html
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10111.0

fletch_cinebootcamps · « **Reply #232 on:** October 14, 2014, 09:31:18 PM »

Thanks, dmilligan.

I emailed Roger regarding this issue to get his response.

As you may know the Canon 70D has an incredible breakthrough in focusing which is excellent for motion picture people. See my tests of the rapid response of the 70D with a 70-200mm Canon lens.

And more appropriately this test of noise between the 70D and 5D M3.

So, I look forward to Magic Lantern unleashing the power of the 70D's sensor but I'm wondering if ML can do the whole job of removing noise or is the noise from the sensor itself (and not from compression and processing Canon does to the image) and ML will have little effect on it.

BTW, while I enjoy reading, I'd like your opinion.

I find myself in the position I was in when I asked an Alpine Electronics rep to tell me the things Alpine does behind the curtain to make their car stereos so much better than the competition. He just smiled and shook his head, "Let's just say that it sounds better." Later I found out the whole story (Alpine's the only car stereo manufacturer that doesn't make living room stereos. Hence Alpine uses only components designed to be in sub-zero and death valley temperature ranges, plus endure vibration tests, ambient noise in the car environment and on and on. Everything they put in the stereo was designed to be in a car.)

janoschsimon · « **Reply #233 on:** October 15, 2014, 01:23:28 PM »

great nikfreak hopefuly we can get ML to the 70D

i have a 70D happy to test something :-)

best janosch

dmilligan · « **Reply #234 on:** October 15, 2014, 02:14:30 PM »

Quote from: fletch_cinebootcamps on October 14, 2014, 09:31:18 PM

I'm wondering if ML can do the whole job of removing noise or is the noise from the sensor itself

The first link I posted details all the various sources of noise.

At high ISOs the largest noise component is usually not the electronics or even the sensor, but the light itself. This is known as "photon shot noise" and it's due to the discrete, quantized, particle nature of light. At high ISOs we say that the image is "photon noise limited". This type of noise is very difficult to remove, and removal is best done in post with a high powered computer (not a dinky ARM processor in the camera).

At lower ISOs, the largest noise component is typically FPN "fixed pattern noise". FPN is due to slight manufacturing imperfections (when CMOS chips are made, not every transistor is perfectly the same, so some sensels may end up having slightly more or less amplifier gain). This gain is "fixed" in that it doesn't fluctuate from frame to frame, so we see a fixed pattern of noise. This is the easiest type of noise to remove because it's not random, so we can simply take a dark frame (capture an image with the shutter closed, no light), which will show the FPN, and subtract it from a light frame. This is what the "long exposure noise reduction" option in your camera does. It takes a regular frame, and then after that's done, it take another identical one with the shutter closed and then subtracts them. You can also do this for raw video using ML, though you have to do it manually in post. You can capture a short video with the lens cap on and then use that in post to subtract it from your actual footage. This only works for raw data though, once the image has been demosaiced and "non-linearized" (and compressed, as in H.264), the subtraction doesn't work any more.

nikfreak · « **Reply #235 on:** October 15, 2014, 05:03:08 PM »

As promised in PM, here you go:

Jakobmen · « **Reply #236 on:** October 15, 2014, 05:25:11 PM »

DROOL!

janoschsimon · « **Reply #237 on:** October 15, 2014, 06:30:44 PM »

UHHHH more we need a dev with 70D

DeafEyeJedi · « **Reply #238 on:** October 16, 2014, 01:17:12 AM »

Hello-

I use a 70D at work (that I can take home for testing) for sports shooting (mostly on gimbal TYTO's) and it would be a dream come true to have ML installed on it.

Let me know if there's any way I can contribute to speed up the process on this magic...

*cheers*

fletch_cinebootcamps · « **Reply #239 on:** October 16, 2014, 07:38:49 AM »

Thanks, dmilligan.

fascinating.

FotoGraphr · « **Reply #240 on:** October 16, 2014, 01:02:56 PM »

Wow!

Are you telling me NikFreak and got this working in Qemu in a matter of days! This is outstanding and I for one am incredibly grateful for this work. €1500 euro went to the dev, and from what I can tell no work completed or present to the backers, you have amazed me in what you have displayed for free in a matter of days? Truly fantastic!

If there is anything I can do to help (70D owner) I am here to assist in any way I can. I am desperate for some of the ML features on my 70D such as Dual ISO, intervalometer, more FPS options for video (like the easy MP4 time lapse effect) M mode + Auto ISO with EC etc as these features would really allow me to do the creative things I want to do with my camera.

It would stop me from being confined by the arbitrary restrictions of the poor/lazy default firmware, and would allow me to get creative with my camera by removing the restrictions that are imposed on the hardware for no apparent reason.

It's features like ML that truly allow users to use the tool in a creative way, not just in the way we were told to.

This allows our imaginations to be the limit, not the firmware!

I can not wait for this to be available. If there is any thing I can do to help, please let me know. If anyone else can help, test, code, bug test, troubleshoot add features etc let's all assist nikfreak and make this a reality for the 70D!
It really would completely change the way I use this hardware. We could all probably benefit in some way from it

nikfreak · « **Reply #241 on:** October 16, 2014, 01:57:10 PM »

Quote from: FotoGraphr on October 16, 2014, 01:02:56 PM

Wow!

Are you telling me NikFreak and got this working in Qemu in a matter of days! This is outstanding and I for one am incredibly grateful for this work. €1500 euro went to the dev, and from what I can tell no work completed or present to the backers, you have amazed me in what you have displayed for free in a matter of days? Truly fantastic!

Let's say it was 2 weeks - not days. And btw the dev you are mentioning deserves all credits. Maybe as a backer you didn't see what he did. He did a fantastic job - I know this cause I've picked up his work. I just added 10% to his work. So plz let's stop such discussions.

Quote from: FotoGraphr on October 16, 2014, 01:02:56 PM

I can not wait for this to be available. If there is any thing I can do to help, please let me know. If anyone else can help, test, code, bug test, troubleshoot add features etc let's all assist nikfreak and make this a reality for the 70D!
It really would completely change the way I use this hardware. We could all probably benefit in some way from it

Really, I would prefer to wait for nanomad to return and finish it. Actually QEMU isn't real hardware and I don't wanna risk to be flamed for bricked devices. On the other side, if a1ex agrees to provide a fir for installation then the risky ones of you could try it out.

FotoGraphr · « **Reply #242 on:** October 16, 2014, 02:47:37 PM »

Hi,
Wasn't meant derogatory, more that the amount of feedback, info, updates received from you in the last few days is way more than anything we recieved from the dev. My wording was poor and I can see how it looks like I'm having a dig. For that I appologise.

maitimaus · « **Reply #243 on:** October 16, 2014, 07:02:11 PM »

Nikfreak you did am amazing job

keep going

ShootMeAlready · « **Reply #244 on:** October 16, 2014, 08:25:57 PM »

Dmilligan

"You can capture a short video with the lens cap on and then use that in post to subtract it from your actual footage. This only works for raw data though, once the image has been demosaiced and "non-linearized" (and compressed, as in H.264), the subtraction doesn't work any more."

Do you have and videos shot where this was done right - ideally with a before and after?
I keep seeing astrophotography time-lapse stuff but not seen a RAW video that shows before or after.

Here is a link to one who claims to have used raw and probably at high ISO. Their attempt at Dark-Frame Subtraction (DFS) made it worse!

dmilligan · « **Reply #245 on:** October 16, 2014, 08:45:36 PM »

Quote from: ShootMeAlready on October 16, 2014, 08:25:57 PM

Do you have and videos shot where this was done right - ideally with a before and after?

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9861.msg94883#msg94883

PanzerMamba · « **Reply #246 on:** October 17, 2014, 12:08:58 AM »

Which camera will be better for video shooting? Im not good at manual focusing (im wearing glasses etc), but im a good at raw postprodction and color grading.

70D or 7d mk1? Is there any possibility, that in future 70d will be as good as in raw shooting (or not so far) as canon 7d?
I know- 7d has CF cards, dual processor, but 70d has new digit 5+, and MAYBE faster SD writer/reader than 6D or 60D?
I am doing a lot of documentaries, sport, traveling, but also music videos, very short movies or simply ads. Objects in focus are same important as colors, levels, blacks, wb, shadows and highlights....

Which one will be better?

ShootMeAlready · « **Reply #247 on:** October 17, 2014, 04:06:36 PM »

"Which camera will be better for video shooting? Im not good at manual focusing (im wearing glasses etc), but im a good at raw postprodction and color grading.

70D or 7d mk1? Is there any possibility, that in future 70d will be as good as in raw shooting (or not so far) as canon 7d?
I know- 7d has CF cards, dual processor, but 70d has new digit 5+, and MAYBE faster SD writer/reader than 6D or 60D?"

Read the last 6 pages or so, Ive made a number of posts on what the 70D can do, and should do when ML with RAW is available.
Basically focus is your most important concern before RAW with video. The 70D is hands down best. Check over last 6 pages my posts you'll find links to videos that show the 70D AF test vs 7D (Northrop video). The 7D is not that great as a primary video camera. I would suggest look at the 50D over the 7D for cheap RAW, of comparable quality. You might be able to afford both the 70D($900 new) & 50D ($400 used), which can share lenses.

Correction: Did not see the Northrup AF test links, I put them on another site. So here are the AF test links.

70D AF test, low-light test and comparison which puts the 7D to shame and shows that the 70D in low light is good to ISO 3200.

70D AF video, where it tracks a fast moving race-car.

And AF of race-car without the 70D's AF system.

janoschsimon · « **Reply #248 on:** October 18, 2014, 02:04:01 PM »

jep the 70D video AF is f...ing amazing :-) so when we could get clean hdmi that would be perfect for steadicam work :-)

rainless · « **Reply #249 on:** October 21, 2014, 02:54:38 AM »

Meh... Can't watch Northrup videos. To me he looks and sounds exactly like "Roger" from American Dad.

...too distracting.

I'll be curious about seeing ML on this camera though... It really seems to do a lot of things better than the 7D Mk II...

News:

Author Topic: Canon 70D (Read 611583 times)