Author Topic: Canon 70D  (Read 499640 times)

DeafEyeJedi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3391
  • 5D3 | M1 | 7D | 70D | SL1 | M2 | 50D
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #375 on: December 30, 2014, 10:28:53 AM »
@nikfreak -- send me a PM if you need help with beta testing and troubleshoots regarding 70D...
5D3.113 | 5D3.123 | EOSM.203 | 7D.203 | 70D.112 | 100D.101 | EOSM2.* | 50D.109

janoschsimon

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #376 on: December 30, 2014, 10:42:57 AM »
great work nikfreak :-) also thx nanomad's amazing times :-)

gsanchez922

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #377 on: December 30, 2014, 10:45:21 AM »
that's really Nice.. I just get it the Brushless 3 axis Gimbal handheld and now this.. My video quality gonna be 10 time better. Thanks guys and I hope U have the beta soon because I wanna try it

Skjd

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #378 on: December 30, 2014, 03:28:28 PM »
Perfetto  :D Sto per acquistare la 70D non vedo l'ora di poter provare a riprendere in RAW e poter abilitare l'uscita cuffie. Speriamo  ;D

Aaberg

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #379 on: December 30, 2014, 05:17:49 PM »
Thank you so much for your effort, Nik and Nano. Do you have a link for a donation page for you?

theboywithfluffyhair

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #380 on: December 30, 2014, 11:38:38 PM »
Thank you so much for your effort nanomad, nikfreak and all who donated to support the port.

I really look forward to seeing what Magic Lantern can do to enhance the already great 70D.. :)

nikfreak

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1170
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #381 on: December 31, 2014, 04:56:29 PM »
one more:



some additional facts:
  • Write speed for UHS-I sd card is max ~40MB/s (no difference to 6D / 700D)
  • Unfortunately we will encounter this same bug as on 6D (in fact actually it's a usable 8-10 seconds)
  • a pre-alpha build for bug-testing will be available once I did some tests on my own. Didn't even try out much myself while verifying some code stuff. ML has huge feature set and if I am able to find  bugged ones then I will disable 'em. Maybe i need to talk to one of the core devs before... I guess you can expect this in about a timeframe max ~1week - maybe less, maybe more  :P
70D.112 & 100D.101

DigitalVeil

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • 70D, 700D
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #382 on: December 31, 2014, 07:21:24 PM »

  • Write speed for UHS-I sd card is max ~40MB/s (no difference to 6D / 700D)
  • Unfortunately we will encounter this same bug as on 6D (in fact actually it's a usable 8-10 seconds)

The 40MB/s is disappointing, but expected.  This is Canon after all, and they know good and well what they're doing.  They could have easily put a SDR104 (UHS-I 104MB/s) slot/bus in this camera for likely the same or minimally higher production cost, but they're aware of ML and they'll make sure it's literally impossible to shoot full 1080p raw on anything other than that $3.5K 5D3 (and maybe now the 7D2).  Even if there's some way to get clean 422 HDMI out of the 70D (highly unlikely), I dont think touch-focus will work with it, and it's still 8-bit.  Do you know yet if it's possible to go beyond 1728 width? Being able to shoot 1920 wide would be cool, even if that meant heavily cutting the video height.  I'm at least excited to shoot h264 All-I combined with 3x bit rate.  Should end up around 35MB/s and look a bit better than my 700D's IBP 3x compression.

All I want is a Canon camera that has both the dual-pixel CMOS touch-AF awesomeness of the 70D combined with the ability to shoot 1920x1080p24 raw.  I'm guessing the 7D Mark II will be able to shoot max res raw because of its CF slot, but the lack of a touchscreen really limits what the dual-pixel AF can do.  If there was a Canon camera like this in existence, I'd probably pay the huge price for it.  Guess I'll just keep waiting =P

Also, does the ML menu timeout occur every time the menu is accessed, or just sometimes? This same problem happens on my 700D, but only the first few times accessing the menu after boot.  After that, it stops timing out.

Oh, and great work again  :D
Glass: EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM, EF 50mm f/1.8, EF-S 55-250mm IS STM, EF-S 18-55mm IS STM

skanter

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #383 on: January 01, 2015, 08:18:07 AM »
Great news for the new year to hear that ML is progressing on the 70D. I had it on previous Canon cameras, but am missing it on 70D. Thanks for the hard work...i will be contributing.

ShootMeAlready

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #384 on: January 01, 2015, 06:44:53 PM »
DV at 40 MB/s, expect for 1080p only in crop mode: @ 11fps continuous, and aspect 2.35 @17 fps continuous, and if memory buffer of 70D if its same as 6D, @ 24 fps for 5s.

Like the 700D/6D expect for 720p no crop: @ 24 fps continuous, and at aspect 2.35 @ 30fps continuous.

For 1152x350 no crop aspect 2.35 (stretch mode) @ 60fps continuous. Never tried crop with stretch mode, so perhaps with crop some higher res. @60fps is possible.  Probably avoid raw video @60fps for projects other than QHD.

And that's iff you have cards that actually write 40 MB/s.
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

JesusChrysler

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #385 on: January 01, 2015, 08:26:39 PM »
I am new to this great forum. I am anticipating ML for the 70D. In case this question has already been asked, forgive, but here goes. Does anyone have any idea when the final release will be? Can I donate to the developers?

Many thanks for your intellect and hard work.

walter_schulz

  • Contributor
  • Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 396
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #386 on: January 01, 2015, 08:31:33 PM »
Top of page -> User Guide -> FAQ -> Last one in section Troll Questions

DJHaze596

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #387 on: January 01, 2015, 11:09:19 PM »
You guys are overreacting.  40MB/s is good enough especially since the 6D is the same and i have gotten some great RAW video on the 6D.  If i remember correctly,  With a 64GB 95MB/s Sandisk card,  i was able to shoot over a minute at 1600x600 and roughly 45-55 seconds at 1792xXXX with 2:35:1 aspect ratio.  I went from a 45MB/s card and was told on this forum it would not be much of a difference but it was.  it doubled my recording time.  So the Card you put into the camera does matter.  Lets just hope the Dual AF works well with RAW video.

DigitalVeil

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • 70D, 700D
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #388 on: January 02, 2015, 02:53:33 AM »
You guys are overreacting.  40MB/s is good enough especially since the 6D is the same and i have gotten some great RAW video on the 6D.  If i remember correctly,  With a 64GB 95MB/s Sandisk card,  i was able to shoot over a minute at 1600x600 and roughly 45-55 seconds at 1792xXXX with 2:35:1 aspect ratio.  I went from a 45MB/s card and was told on this forum it would not be much of a difference but it was.  it doubled my recording time.  So the Card you put into the camera does matter.  Lets just hope the Dual AF works well with RAW video.

It's not "good enough" when UHS-1 slots can reach 104MB/s.  I'm not even talking about UHS-II, this is the UHS-I slot that is already in the 70D and other less expensive Canon DSLRs.  I think it's kinda bullcrap that the 7D Mark II has an SD card slot that reaches 75MB/s in addition to its CF card slot (redundant) while the 70D only has the 1 SD slot and it's limited to 40MB/s.

I almost wish these Canon DSLRs shot raw at 12-bit instead of 14-bit.  Obviously that makes them worse for still photography, which is their primary purpose, but when it comes to video the most noticeable improvement comes from 8-bit to 10-bit, above that it's hard to notice.  I know if these cameras shot raw video at 12-bit instead of 14-bit, we could definitely fit higher resolutions through that 40MB/s bus.  This is why I wish we could set higher than 3.0x bit rate for h264 shots.
Glass: EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM, EF 50mm f/1.8, EF-S 55-250mm IS STM, EF-S 18-55mm IS STM

ShootMeAlready

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #389 on: January 02, 2015, 03:48:32 AM »
Just wondering if anyone has tried ML with one the usb to CF or SDHC card writers.
It seems that if you avoid using the internal SD card writer and output to the usb, things might be faster ???

http://www.walmart.com/ip/All-in-1-USB-3.0-Compact-Flash-Multi-Memory-Card-Reader-CF-Adapter-MicroSD-MS-XD/40995370

Its a bit outside the box, not sure what the internal card writer does vs ML functionality in that department.
If we are lucky perhaps just a driver is needed???
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

pa0los

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #390 on: January 02, 2015, 04:12:56 AM »
How would you connect a USB card reader to the camera? Does it support USB host? I doubt it.

DJHaze596

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #391 on: January 02, 2015, 04:51:03 AM »
It's not "good enough" when UHS-1 slots can reach 104MB/s.  I'm not even talking about UHS-II, this is the UHS-I slot that is already in the 70D and other less expensive Canon DSLRs.  I think it's kinda bullcrap that the 7D Mark II has an SD card slot that reaches 75MB/s in addition to its CF card slot (redundant) while the 70D only has the 1 SD slot and it's limited to 40MB/s.

I almost wish these Canon DSLRs shot raw at 12-bit instead of 14-bit.  Obviously that makes them worse for still photography, which is their primary purpose, but when it comes to video the most noticeable improvement comes from 8-bit to 10-bit, above that it's hard to notice.  I know if these cameras shot raw video at 12-bit instead of 14-bit, we could definitely fit higher resolutions through that 40MB/s bus.  This is why I wish we could set higher than 3.0x bit rate for h264 shots.

Agree but it is what it is.  How do you know the 7D Mark II has 75mb/s?  Also I think Magic Lantern Chooses not to do 8, 10, 12 bit RAW and i think it should be an option.  It's silly and i do not believe their reasoning behind it.  I really think we can push these cameras to 1080p + if we had the ability to do 10 Bit RAW.

anthonykeane

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #392 on: January 02, 2015, 07:46:57 AM »
but they're aware of ML and they'll make sure it's literally impossible to shoot full 1080p raw on anything other than that $3.5K 5D3 (and maybe now the 7D2). 


This is a little paranoid. Canon decisions are not about us, it is about their bottom line and ensuring all part specs are as minimal as possible so they can max their profit. I suspect ML has improved Canon sales to those who know, but has no impact to their other products. Anyone believe or know otherwise?
20D, 70D, 50mm 1.4, 18-135

ShootMeAlready

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #393 on: January 02, 2015, 07:55:08 AM »
You could use an OTB (USB 3) cable to connect to the camera, and the writer.
The question becomes can ML use this device???  Perhaps a s/w driver is needed. I wonder if there is an Digic/ARM config. to use it.
I like the USB port connection because unlike the HDMI it doesn't blank the LCD screen, so if we can bypass the slow ass internal card writer ...
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

dmilligan

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3218
  • 60Da / 1100D / EOSM
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #394 on: January 02, 2015, 01:34:29 PM »
Also I think Magic Lantern Chooses not to do 8, 10, 12 bit RAW and i think it should be an option.  It's silly and i do not believe their reasoning behind it.
LOL! This is an open source project. All of the code is available for you to inspect and modify. If it's so easy, feel free to do it yourself.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13408.0

DigitalVeil

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • 70D, 700D
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #395 on: January 02, 2015, 04:01:07 PM »
You could use an OTB (USB 3) cable to connect to the camera, and the writer.
The question becomes can ML use this device???  Perhaps a s/w driver is needed. I wonder if there is an Digic/ARM config. to use it.
I like the USB port connection because unlike the HDMI it doesn't blank the LCD screen, so if we can bypass the slow ass internal card writer ...

Does the 70D have a 3.0 or 2.0 USB port? I assumed 2.0 but I could be wrong.  The maximum theoretical throughput of 2.0 is 60MB/s but for reasons beyond me (overhead etc) you pretty much never see any USB 2.0 connection ever going above 35MB/s, so we wouldn't gain anything there.

Agree but it is what it is.  How do you know the 7D Mark II has 75mb/s?  Also I think Magic Lantern Chooses not to do 8, 10, 12 bit RAW and i think it should be an option.  It's silly and i do not believe their reasoning behind it.  I really think we can push these cameras to 1080p + if we had the ability to do 10 Bit RAW.

Unfortunately it doesn't really work like that.  The image sensor in these cameras natively uses 14 bits to determine what color a pixel will be. Recording images in 12-bit color instead of 14-bit color would actually require the camera to do extra work. In fact it probably takes the same amount of processing work as converting to 8-bit like it already does.  Raw essentially works by taking the full sensor readout, bypassing the h264.ini, and dumping that data directly onto the card without any modification.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can just "drop" the 2 or 4 least significant bits of a color value without completely ruining the whole picture.  You wouldn't just lose the range, you'd end up with an entirely different color for every pixel.  To convert from 14-bit to any other bit-depth, you'd have to run through an encoder again, and I'm 99% sure the h264.ini cannot be modified to do anything other than 8-bit.

Oh yeah, 7D2 slot speed: http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/canon-7d-mark-ii/fastest-sd-cf-card-comparison/
Glass: EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM, EF 50mm f/1.8, EF-S 55-250mm IS STM, EF-S 18-55mm IS STM

dmilligan

  • Developer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3218
  • 60Da / 1100D / EOSM
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #396 on: January 02, 2015, 05:42:36 PM »
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can just "drop" the 2 or 4 least significant bits of a color value without completely ruining the whole picture. 
You're wrong ;)

You can just drop the least significant bits without loosing much image quality, b/c these bits are mostly just noise anyway (if you lost anything, it would mostly be very dark, noisy shadow detail). The "correct" or "best" way to reduce bit depth would be to round with a little bit of random noise thrown in (for dither), but there won't be a whole lot difference between that and just dropping the bits (it certainly wouldn't "ruin" the picture).

But even just doing something like dropping bits is too time consuming to be able to do it in real-time with the dinky little ARM CPU.

ML Raw recording doesn't even use the CPU to transfer the raw data from the raw buffer to the SD/CF card because the CPU is too slow for even that (just a direct copy). Instead we use some special hardware called the EDMAC. This special hardware device can move data around memory very quickly without incurring CPU overhead. Without the discovery of this hardware and figuring out how to use it, raw recording would not have been possible.

So, if we also want to do something like change the bit depth of raw data, we need to find some hardware that can do it for us fast enough, because while it would be very easy to write some code to do this, the code would never be able to run fast enough on the ARM CPU (b/c like I mentioned previously, even a simple direct copy isn't even fast enough). To date we haven't found such hardware or at least if it's there, we don't know how to use it. In the link I posted there is some indication it *might* be possible, should we ever figure out how to use the hardware mentioned in that thread to do this sort of thing.

ShootMeAlready

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #397 on: January 02, 2015, 07:29:32 PM »
While I have yet to read a Canon spec sheet that says its usb 2.0, the fact they have not noted it as usb 3.0, or provide clarification that such a compatible device is needed
it is probably usb 2.0.  More than a few folks have noted that actual usb 2.0 reader speeds max at 35 MB/s.

http://www.dslrfilmnoob.com/2014/02/01/usb-3-0-card-reader-speeds-matters/

So it looks like the next point of interest would be to connect to a SSD drive ???  That should maz. throttle the transfer rate.  Perhaps enough to get past 40 MB/s.
And if so that would work for even 550D and above cameras.

I do know that the 70D inherited the 90 MB/s All-I compression from the 5D MarkIII, so its got to have superior throughput processing somewhere? that can be tapped.
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"

DigitalVeil

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • 70D, 700D
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #398 on: January 02, 2015, 07:36:19 PM »
You're wrong ;)

You can just drop the least significant bits without loosing much image quality, b/c these bits are mostly just noise anyway (if you lost anything, it would mostly be very dark, noisy shadow detail). The "correct" or "best" way to reduce bit depth would be to round with a little bit of random noise thrown in (for dither), but there won't be a whole lot difference between that and just dropping the bits (it certainly wouldn't "ruin" the picture).

But even just doing something like dropping bits is too time consuming to be able to do it in real-time with the dinky little ARM CPU.

ML Raw recording doesn't even use the CPU to transfer the raw data from the raw buffer to the SD/CF card because the CPU is too slow for even that (just a direct copy). Instead we use some special hardware called the EDMAC. This special hardware device can move data around memory very quickly without incurring CPU overhead. Without the discovery of this hardware and figuring out how to use it, raw recording would not have been possible.

So, if we also want to do something like change the bit depth of raw data, we need to find some hardware that can do it for us fast enough, because while it would be very easy to write some code to do this, the code would never be able to run fast enough on the ARM CPU (b/c like I mentioned previously, even a simple direct copy isn't even fast enough). To date we haven't found such hardware or at least if it's there, we don't know how to use it. In the link I posted there is some indication it *might* be possible, should we ever figure out how to use the hardware mentioned in that thread to do this sort of thing.


Thanks for explaining all that  :)  Good to know that about bit depth.

The specs say USB 3.0, which means much faster than 40 MB/s. 

http://www.cameraegg.org/canon-eos-70d-specs-new-sensor-digic-6-usb-3-0-gps/


Now the DLRfilmnoob found that usb 3.0, wrote twice as fast to fast cards as usb 2.0.  Since more than a few folks have noted that actual usb 2.0 reader speeds max at 35 MB/s
this at first estimate suggests a 70 MB/s card write speed.

http://www.dslrfilmnoob.com/2014/02/01/usb-3-0-card-reader-speeds-matters/

Which by the way, assumes your USB 3.0 connects to a card writer, how about instead a SSD drive ???  Now that would be fast!

But perhaps with ML on a 70D, the USB 3.0 maybe fast enough to refresh EOS utility (as it runs on 5D MkIII) which gets you into AF raw video on a 27" touchscreen. 


Interesting.  Maybe there is some potential there? Seems unlikely the camera would be able to drive the device, but I'm no expert on this stuff (yet :P)
Glass: EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM, EF 50mm f/1.8, EF-S 55-250mm IS STM, EF-S 18-55mm IS STM

ShootMeAlready

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: Canon 70D
« Reply #399 on: January 02, 2015, 07:59:45 PM »
Sorry DV I updated my post on the usb 3.0, as it appears it was prior to official release.  However once released it did not materialize.
T3i+ML & 70D.112+ML, Tokina 11-16 2.8, Sigma 18-35 1.8, 50-150 II 2.8, 50 1.4, Canon 28 1.8, 35 2, 85 1.8 "Shoot Wide and Prosper"