Author Topic: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison  (Read 13566 times)

creased

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Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« on: September 04, 2013, 06:09:29 AM »

Best viewed as downloaded file - manually scrolling the timeline yourself - or, at least, at full screen HD.

Disclaimer ;) This vid is intended to show off a comparison of two different formats for capturing video on a Canon 7D (not as an example of shooting and / or editing abilities (or lack of...))

NOTE - Magic Lantern is an incredible "movement". I'm forever indebted to its team for giving my 4 year old camera a full on rebirth!

- CF Card, Sandisk Extreme 32GB, 60MB/s
- Clips limited to 59 frames - slowed down 50% in After Effects
- Shot with Silent Burst Mode
- Minimal colour correction applied to raw clips to try to more closely match the colours of the H264 footage
- Lens correction filter applied to raw clips to correct focal length associated distortion
- Most clips are 1/50th, iso160 and between f11-16
- No tripod - slightly wobbly footage
- No text: it's quite evident which footage is raw :)

I needed to read and understand this page on the forums (magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7503.msg65223#msg65223) before starting off. The shooting workflow for this comparison demanded the use of a variable zoom lens. Most importantly, however, it had to have a constant aperture so as to minimise the effect on the DOF when zooming (though this changes a little, anyway). Therefore I chose my Tamron 17-50mm f2.8. (...although focal length changes still, obviously, distorted the image to varying, different, degrees - I fixed some of this in AE).

I shot a video clip at 40mm and would then pull back to full wide (17mm), punch the zoom button to take me in to 5x crop mode and then hold down the shutter button to recored the 59 frame, silent-burst, sequence.

Music - The Universal, Blur

maxotics

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Re: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 03:13:14 PM »
Nice video!  You may not get much feedback.  Or you may be surprised, going forward, that more people aren't as excited as you.  This is what I concluded, after a while of doing similar videos, if you observe similar.

1. Most people have expensive cameras that only shoot native H.264.  It's hard to like anything that may a.) make your investment seem worthless, b.) make you feel inferior because the technology (ML) is too hard c.) make your workflow five to ten-times harder in time/energy c.) make your images, at first glace, look worse in sharpness and contrast.

2. Most people prefer high sharpness, contrast and saturation. 

3. Very few people have the time/energy to shoot RAW.  I shouldn't spend as much time as I do.  So, difficult for them to see for themselves. 

So people like me, will look at your video and think, why is it even a question :)  Others may think you're trying to prove you're smarter than they are.  The real thing that needs to be proved is that shooting RAW can be as easy as similar processes in H.264.  That's when everyone will SEE IT.  Or when a new "Blair Witch" film comes out, shot in ML RAW, and then everyone gets motivated by fame and fortune ;)

Again, nice video.


zuzukasuma

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Re: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 03:36:40 PM »
great comparison, I'd like to know your workflow for effects.

*next time, it'll be nice to have small watermarks indicating h264 and raw shots
in a complicated relationship with eos m.

pointbob1

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Re: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 04:37:18 PM »
You had no probs doing 1080p on the sandisk cf 60mbs card? I have a 5d2 and that card chokes on me - would the 7d be a faster camera - or the fact that the 7d is a smaller sensor suggest less data would be recorded on the card then the 5d2?

zuzukasuma

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Re: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 02:53:34 PM »
You had no probs doing 1080p on the sandisk cf 60mbs card? I have a 5d2 and that card chokes on me - would the 7d be a faster camera - or the fact that the 7d is a smaller sensor suggest less data would be recorded on the card then the 5d2?

7D has dual processors and ML team trying to reverse engineer it for years. I don't know if you aware but here is the chart of all cameras; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQ2MOkAZTFHdFFIcFp1d0R5TzVPTVJXOEVyUndteGc#gid=5
in a complicated relationship with eos m.

creased

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Re: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2013, 02:22:16 AM »
Nice video!  You may not get much feedback.  Or you may be surprised, going forward, that more people aren't as excited as you.  This is what I concluded, after a while of doing similar videos, if you observe similar.

1. Most people have expensive cameras that only shoot native H.264.  It's hard to like anything that may a.) make your investment seem worthless, b.) make you feel inferior because the technology (ML) is too hard c.) make your workflow five to ten-times harder in time/energy c.) make your images, at first glace, look worse in sharpness and contrast.

2. Most people prefer high sharpness, contrast and saturation. 

3. Very few people have the time/energy to shoot RAW.  I shouldn't spend as much time as I do.  So, difficult for them to see for themselves. 

So people like me, will look at your video and think, why is it even a question :)  Others may think you're trying to prove you're smarter than they are.  The real thing that needs to be proved is that shooting RAW can be as easy as similar processes in H.264.  That's when everyone will SEE IT.  Or when a new "Blair Witch" film comes out, shot in ML RAW, and then everyone gets motivated by fame and fortune ;)

Again, nice video.

Thanks Maxotics, totally hear your points and understand them. Maybe next vid should be a WorkFlow option, yeah? Loike you say, we gotta show people how easy this is now that ML have done all the hard work :)

Thanks again...

creased

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Re: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2013, 02:26:03 AM »
great comparison, I'd like to know your workflow for effects.

*next time, it'll be nice to have small watermarks indicating h264 and raw shots

Thanks Zuzukasuma - I deliberately removed the watermarks I had, cos I felt A). it wasn't necessary (the raw is exponentially better) and B) it got in the way

Workflow was really basic:

- wrangled the clips off cam
- converted them to another form of DNG which Mac OSX could preview
- import into After Effects as Image Sequence
- tweak colour a little with Levels (if I remember correctly)

Cheers again, for your comment Zuzu




creased

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Re: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2013, 02:26:51 AM »
You had no probs doing 1080p on the sandisk cf 60mbs card? I have a 5d2 and that card chokes on me - would the 7d be a faster camera - or the fact that the 7d is a smaller sensor suggest less data would be recorded on the card then the 5d2?

occasional problems but nothing tooo messy - the cam would always show up the problem and so I knew to reshoot the shot.

twocik

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Re: Canon 7D raw v. H264 side by side comparison
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2013, 09:43:59 PM »
Can any other program(s) be used besides AE to compile them into a Pro Res HQ ?

What's the safest 7D hack to date  ?