Author Topic: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?  (Read 18333 times)

l_d_allan

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HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« on: September 02, 2013, 03:30:39 AM »
I've got the Sep 1 nightly build, and attempted to read thru 37 pages of thread related to dual-iso, with links to a 52 page thread for raw-rec. Mea culpa, I guess I'm slow, but I'm baffled on how to get it to work.

I've got the raw_rec module loaded, and found what seems to be the ML menu item related to dual-iso:
* Video / HDR video (changed from default 100/1250 to 100/1600)

And then?

EDIT:
Almost resolved? See reply #5 of this thread below.  Turns out nightly build for Sep 1 (and others) didn't include DUAL_ISO.MO

As of Sep 10, it appears none of the nightly builds include DUAL_ISO.mo, for any of the DSLR's I checked (5d2, T3i, 5d3). However, for the 5d2, there will be a zip file with filename consisting of 12 random letters and digits that so far has contained all or most modules, including DUAL_ISO.mo (thanks tron). Look at the following link:
http://bitbucket.org/a_d_/magic-lantern/downloads.

Resolved: 5d2 NightlyBuilds now include latest/greatest DUAL_ISO.MO  (thanks!) 
.zip from /downloads not necessary (?)


Wow, not a single sample from 5D2?!

HA!.... i was right! :D Dual Iso running on my 5Dmkii... whooo,

is there a compiled 5d2 dual iso module I can test?


Can you explain how to use Dual ISO ...


PressureFM

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2013, 10:32:44 AM »
Make sure the DUAL_ISO.MO module is loaded in the Modules menu in Magic Lantern, then enable it under the Expo menu.

You need to download the cr2hdr program for post-processing the .CR2 pictures to DNGs.

Please read the white paper for Dual ISO or read the FAQ.

A quick example:



l_d_allan

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 09:29:01 PM »
Make sure the DUAL_ISO.MO module is loaded in the Modules menu in Magic Lantern, then enable it under the Expo menu.

Sorry for being so slow.

I haven't been able to find a pre-compiled-built DUAL_ISO.MO module for the 5d2. Does this exist? I did look at what I think are "the usual suspects" as far as where such a file could be downloaded. Is it inside some .zip?

Would this rusty desktop C++ developer have to build from DUAL_ISO.c ?

Or is my assumption that a 7d/5d3 module would not work for 5d2 ... incorrect?  Flawed? Should I attempt to track down a DUAL_ISO.mo and try  it, and hope my 5d2 didn't brick?

I got no search result "hits" from:
dual_iso.mo 5d2 magic lantern download module

Quote
You need to download the cr2hdr program for post-processing the .CR2 pictures to DNGs.

OK. Already done. Didn't contain DUAL_ISO.mo (which is probably "as expected" as this is for the desktop post-processing, I believe)

Quote
Please read the white paper for Dual ISO or read the FAQ.

I've read the rather long "white paper" from July 14, which I recall starts off being pretty emphatic that DUAL_ISO only works for 7D and 5d3. Also, I don't recall there being much if any content about how to actually get it to work, as far as something like:
* Step 1: acquire DUAL_ISO.MO for model [fill in the blank  ... 5d2 and T3i in my case]
* 2: Get DUAL_ISO.MO on my flash-card and loaded at boot time
* 3: Set option or options in ??? tab (Expo?) to ???
* 4. Take pictures
* 5. For Windows, drag-n-drop .cr2's into directory with expanded contents of cr2hdr.zip (mis-named cr2hdr.exe)
* Steps 6 thru n ... ???
* Very likely several steps left out of above out of ignorance / inexperience on my part

I realize that the whole DUAL_ISO capability is very much "bleeding edge" and evolving very quickly.

I also have attempted and re-attempted to read the "Massive increase ... " thread, but it is comprised of 900+ posts, with references to threads of 1500+ posts. (sorry for the whining).

I am especially interested in getting it to work because a definite interest of mine is doing panoramas. With panos, there is typically plenty of resolution, but dynamic range is a real problem. I'm trying to use less and less HDR with panos, and DUAL_ISO looks like it would be VERY valuable to me.


1%

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 11:10:45 PM »
I think 5DII has been supported for a while. You can pretty much use any pre compiled module.

PressureFM

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 11:11:33 PM »
Just download the newest version of Magic Lantern for the 5D Mark II here.

Replace all the files with the ones of your old ML installation :)

If need be I can make a video but it should be straightforward.

l_d_allan

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 08:12:07 AM »
Just download the newest version of Magic Lantern for the 5D Mark II here.

Thanks!

The Aug 30 file (af839274b1fa.zip) has six modules, including DUAL_ISO.MO
arkaniod
autoexpo
dual_iso
ettr
file_man
raw_rec
(not pic_view)

Seems odd, but the Sep 1 nightly build I attempted to get to work for the 5d2 also has six modules, but not including DUAL_ISO.MO
arkaniod
autoexpo
ettr
file_man
pic_view
raw_rec
(not dual_iso)

Also, I just checked the Sep 4 nightly build, and it also appears to NOT include DUAL_ISO.MO    Or am I doing something wrong?

But I suppose "such is life on the bleeding edge".


tron

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 11:48:48 AM »
You are correct :(  So I put the original 2.3 ML to my CF card, updated with af839274b1fa.zip files and then updated with Sep 4 nightly build...

It worked (DUAL_ISO).

EDIT: For Sep 4 a new file exists: 6bb97bcbc0f4.zip  at https://bitbucket.org/a_d_/magic-lantern/downloads
It contains dual_iso module. So:

original 2.3 ML  + Sep 4 nightly build  +  6bb97bcbc0f4.zip seems to day's 5D2 latest ML


Africashot

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 12:53:46 PM »
I am not sure if I am missing something on the implementation or if I am not processing them correctly but while initially it looks all great at any zoom level beyond 33x the two lines of pixels become visible, below at 100x
ML 5D2 & T3i

pointbob1

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 03:16:39 AM »
newb question' does dual iso on work at iso 100??

ie. 100/1600 ~ when i tired in low light it took the shot in iso 100 w slow shutter spped..and really should have been iso 800...

help

Doyle4

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 03:55:31 AM »
I am not sure if I am missing something on the implementation or if I am not processing them correctly but while initially it looks all great at any zoom level beyond 33x the two lines of pixels become visible, below at 100x


These files need converting with cr2hdr

Doyle4

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 03:58:01 AM »
newb question' does dual iso on work at iso 100??

ie. 100/1600 ~ when i tired in low light it took the shot in iso 100 w slow shutter spped..and really should have been iso 800...

help

Something i am still baffled with, do i shoot at 100 or 1600 metering? so what i do is: shoot the settings if shooting 100 and 1600 (2 separate images) then take a shot with double of the 100 and half the time 1600 says, i then choose what i thnk is the best, but i do mainly go by the iso 100 setting as im still unsure on the perfect metering when shooting dual iso.

Audionut

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 04:03:19 AM »
It depends if you want to meter the highlights and enable shadow recovery, or meter the shadows and enable highlight recovery.

Using a lower ISO as the base ISO, you meter for the highlights (no overexposure) and then use the required recovery ISO to raise your shadows from the noise floor.
Using a higher ISO as the base ISO, you meter the shadows (to bring them out of the noise floor) and then use the required ISO to recover your highlights (no over exposure).

You should always strive to have the lower ISO @ 100.  The biggest gains in dual ISO are always from ISO 100 as the low ISO.
If you meter the highlights and your choice of shutter/aperture requires ISO 800, you should probably forget about dual ISO.  The dynamic range gains drop significantly when the lowest ISO you use for dual ISO is a rather large ISO, say ISO 800 or more.  If you then try and use dual ISO say ISOs 800-3200, you gain very little in dynamic range while still suffering all the negatives (reduced resolution, aliasing, moire).

pointbob1

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 06:23:30 AM »
ah ok ..that makes sense ..thanks so much for the help..

Africashot

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 07:33:34 AM »
These files need converting with cr2hdr

I had the feeling; however this is what I got when I initially dragged the .cr2 file onto cr2hdr.exe... therefore I was under the impression these images had been processed, where can be the mistake?
ML 5D2 & T3i

Doyle4

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 01:25:04 PM »
I had the feeling; however this is what I got when I initially dragged the .cr2 file onto cr2hdr.exe... therefore I was under the impression these images had been processed, where can be the mistake?

Ok.. make sure you have the latest version.
I would make a folder calledcr2hdr and place all the files you downloaded for cr2 into there, then you MUST have the image that needs converting in the SAME folder as cr2hdr.exe.

Also the cr2 file wont be changed, it will create a separate dng file.

Hope this helps.

Doyle4

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2013, 01:26:41 PM »
It depends if you want to meter the highlights and enable shadow recovery, or meter the shadows and enable highlight recovery.

Using a lower ISO as the base ISO, you meter for the highlights (no overexposure) and then use the required recovery ISO to raise your shadows from the noise floor.
Using a higher ISO as the base ISO, you meter the shadows (to bring them out of the noise floor) and then use the required ISO to recover your highlights (no over exposure).

You should always strive to have the lower ISO @ 100.  The biggest gains in dual ISO are always from ISO 100 as the low ISO.
If you meter the highlights and your choice of shutter/aperture requires ISO 800, you should probably forget about dual ISO.  The dynamic range gains drop significantly when the lowest ISO you use for dual ISO is a rather large ISO, say ISO 800 or more.  If you then try and use dual ISO say ISOs 800-3200, you gain very little in dynamic range while still suffering all the negatives (reduced resolution, aliasing, moire).

Sweet thanks, i had been metering the highlights most of the time but wasnt sure if there was a good way of doing it, but reading this makes alot more sense thanks.

Africashot

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2013, 02:57:52 PM »
I had the feeling; however this is what I got when I initially dragged the .cr2 file onto cr2hdr.exe... therefore I was under the impression these images had been processed, where can be the mistake?
Yep; guilty of not putting the .exe in the same folder... thanks for pointing that out! Should spend more time reading the the documentation on ML developments, just too hard to keep up! Thanks again Doyle4!
My verdict now that it works for me; it is good for time-lapse or video (although not working yet on my 5d2 so I can't really tell) but as far as stills go there is too much aliasing and other stuff to be using it for payed work imo at least...
ML 5D2 & T3i

Audionut

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2013, 03:21:34 PM »
@Africashot

Try using sane settings (100/400) where ISO 100 allows you to place the highlights at the right hand side of the histogram (within shutter/aperture limits).

The further apart the 2 ISOs are that you use, the more aliasing and such become a problem.  And you can get around 2EV of extra dynamic range with just ISOs 100/400.

Africashot

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2013, 05:37:36 PM »
@Africashot

Try using sane settings (100/400) where ISO 100 allows you to place the highlights at the right hand side of the histogram (within shutter/aperture limits).

The further apart the 2 ISOs are that you use, the more aliasing and such become a problem.  And you can get around 2EV of extra dynamic range with just ISOs 100/400.

Thanks Audionut! I mainly photograph real estate & holiday estates, thus I often have to battle extreme differences for interiors of rooms etc... hdr is mainly the only way to go, I had high hopes for dual ISO to replace the tedious tone mapping and exposure brushing but currently can's see it happening, probably because 2EV simply won't be enough, to further explain it see the following samples:
This is as much as I could make of the Dual ISO shot (in terms of DR)

This is the tonemapped HDR:

This is a 100% detail of the Dual ISO shot:

Here is the hdr detail:
ML 5D2 & T3i

Audionut

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2013, 06:04:40 PM »
Are you using the latest cr2hdr app?  http://acoutts.com/a1ex/cr2hdr.zip

With ISOs 100/400 I net around 13.3EV of dynamic range.  ISOs 100/800 should get it up around 14EV.

This is ISO 100/800 no noise reduction




+5EV in LR. 
With those lights in that room in your photos, there wouldn't appear to be shadows as extreme as my example above?

For reference, here is ISO 100 shot with same LR settings.

Africashot

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2013, 06:15:11 PM »
@Audionut - thanks! The problem is I can not recall to 100% what ISO setting I used... I know I used base 100 but the other may have been 400 or 800 - not sure; I will have to test this further!

I used the cr2hdr app posted on a.d. thread - downloaded today, not sure if it can be outdated, anyway, thanks for all your help!
ML 5D2 & T3i

a1ex

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2013, 07:35:13 AM »
@Africashot: may I see that CR2?

Africashot

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2013, 08:12:10 AM »
@Africashot: may I see that CR2?

Thanks for looking into it a1ex... the original cr2 file will be online here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/89342563/yyy.CR2
(as soon as my slow and tired Kenyan internet connection will manage to push 30 mb into the world wide web...)
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a1ex

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2013, 08:34:06 AM »
It looks overexposed to me. Use raw zebras to see where everything is blown out and where it's likely to get aliasing.

In my dual ISO shots I brighten the shadows by 5-6 stops (sometimes more, sometimes less). Now I'm curious how the latest ETTR will expose (didn't try it on real shots yet).

Audionut

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Re: HowTo? Baffled on using dual-iso with 5d2?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2013, 08:43:37 AM »
It looks overexposed to me.

Indeed.  And cr2hdr is reporting an ISO difference of 4.2EV (100/1600?)

The shadows aren't that dark.  100/400 would have been fine for this shot imo.