Author Topic: Modified settings menu  (Read 24525 times)

a1ex

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Modified settings menu
« on: August 25, 2013, 11:25:55 PM »
Here's a little experiment that should help with usability: a dynamic menu that shows only the settings that you have modified. You can use it to review the settings before a shoot, for example (e.g. to make sure you don't have some esoteric setting enabled by mistake).

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/12faa2c544c7

@stevefal: what do you think about it? maybe you can suggest a better icon?

Marsu42

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 11:35:01 PM »
Sounds like a good idea, having some "esoteric" setting screw up my shot and me unable to find out the problem quickly was always one of my worries about using ml.

But the items displayed should probably only include or at least highlight config vars that actually enable features and not settings like the lens delay for focus stack that are to be modified by the user anyway since the default value is just a rough guess. I know this isn't as easy to implement, but otherwise the menu would get spammed with useless information and you'd not be able to discover what the problematic feature is.

arrinkiiii

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 11:44:06 PM »

Quite useful

RenatoPhoto

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 01:55:26 AM »
Thanks, nice menu and usability.  Since you can make changes in this menu it is like a new menu of the things that I use most.  This simplifies and provides quick access to what I use most.
 :)
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stevefal

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 02:13:29 AM »
@stevefal: what do you think about it? maybe you can suggest a better icon?

I'm still not able to build, so can't try it...
Steve Falcon

stevefal

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 02:33:03 AM »
In either case I'll propose an icon, plus a new one for Modules.
Steve Falcon

stevefal

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 02:47:33 AM »
Here is a custom "modified" icon: 
Steve Falcon

stevefal

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 02:57:52 AM »
And an idea for "modules":
Steve Falcon

arrinkiiii

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 03:03:43 AM »
Since you can change the settings maybe making 3 or more costumes presets for different settings?


Also if i got the cropmarks off it will show the submenu (blue square) with my on cropmark that i change in the dinamic menu, even if is off in the overlay menu. It's  nothing just saying...

a1ex

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 07:10:47 AM »
The delta icon is interesting, though maybe not very intuitive at first sight (but I'm not sure what else to suggest). The module icon looks great!

Presets are unrelated.

About submenus: if the main menu is disabled, would you prefer to hide the individual settings? (they don't normally affect the functionality).

There are some exceptions: e.g. even if auto ETTR is turned off, the parameters from submenu are still used for the ETTR hint on the histogram. Or, the settings from submenu (e.g. Prefs), which don't have a master setting.




Audionut

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 07:17:27 AM »
I'd personally prefer the submenu to remain seen if it's parameters affect functionality.

e.g. even if auto ETTR is turned off, the parameters from submenu are still used for the ETTR hint on the histogram. Or, the settings from submenu (e.g. Prefs), which don't have a master setting.

a1ex

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 11:45:20 AM »
Tweaked the interface a bit, seems a bit cleaner to me:



(submenu items are shown with smaller font, and with context info, so you know where they came from; same for My Menu; top level menus are shown normally)

Now I'm not sure whether to gray out the submenu settings if the master entry is disabled.

Audionut

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 11:56:54 AM »
Grey out the master entry (if it's off) but leave the submenu entry highlighted to show its active?

a1ex

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 12:04:17 PM »
Something like this?



(if anything is modified in the submenu, shows the master entry too, even if the master was not modified)

Audionut

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2013, 12:37:13 PM »
Yes.  But for this instance with ettr, it makes sense to me to hide the entry completely, as slowest shutter doesn't affect any other functionality.

Where as if the hint parameters are changed, both entries would show like your last example, because it affects another function.

You could go as far as to hide the hint entry also if raw histograms were disabled.  As the hint parameter is then only affecting a disabled function.

Global draw off - hide all other functions that only have a direct affect with global draw.  Raw based overlays, cropmarks etc etc.

That should help keep it clean. 

a1ex

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2013, 12:40:04 PM »
Or, even better:



which starts to look like this: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=4386.msg50515#msg50515

Hiding stuff based on functionality is a bit more complicated. Right now I'm only looking things up in the config file - if they were modified, they are displayed.

Marsu42

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2013, 01:06:21 PM »
Hiding stuff based on functionality is a bit more complicated. Right now I'm only looking things up in the config file - if they were modified, they are displayed.

Indeed, it's basically a variation of the colored modified settings you once had. It's just that the delta adheres to the default values hardcoded in the core or in the modules, and these are chosen by the devs and are not necessarily the only safe values.

As I understand this feature is for the user though, and not in the first place for ml debugging purposes - so if I decide I want some minor setting changed like the "Zoom x5" in your screenshot ml really shouldn't bug me about it anymore. The rationale is that if the menu becomes too large the practical usefulness will disappear, at least it would for me.

How about letting the user chose settings to hide, just like we can hide menu items? Another option would be to let the user save his own "base" config that overrides the ml built-in defaults and then display the delta from this user-chosen base.

a1ex

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2013, 01:09:38 PM »
Having a default base config should do the trick. But this can be completely decoupled: once the config backend recognizes the base config file as "default", the menu will just work as you said.

Marsu42

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2013, 01:21:09 PM »
Having a default base config should do the trick. But this can be completely decoupled: once the config backend recognizes the base config file as "default", the menu will just work as you said.

Sure, but at least this way you can get rid of some things you know you've changed once according to your preferences and that are safe, or are supposed to be safe :-p

I wouldn't mind having the "hide menu" option in addition to that for options that are often changed, but also not important enough - for example I often change the bracketing # of frames, but I also wouldn't want that to show up in the delta menu.

If you'd add both approaches, the delta entries would be slimmed down to the things that really matter and that have the potential to screw up everything. But every one of the above would be "good enough", and you're the one to implement it :->

a1ex

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2013, 01:32:52 PM »
A little unrelated: I was also thinking to monitor some usage counters, and generate an automatic junkie menu, for example (which should only contain what you use often). With a forgetting factor, things that you have set once and never touch after that will disappear.

I use the junkie mode if I have to shoot something a little more serious (and then I select most stuff from Expo, some basic overlays, and a few tweaks from here and there, in total around 15-20 functions). But having to re-setup that menu every time after restoring defaults or changing cards isn't very funny, so I thought some automatic option might work.

Marsu42

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2013, 02:02:49 PM »
But having to re-setup that menu every time after restoring defaults or changing cards isn't very funny, so I thought some automatic option might work.

For once, I don't see the problem - you can already hide settings from junkie menu independent of the old school menu, can't you? So if you know what couple of options you use you can just slim down the junkie menu to it.

Personally, any "intelligent" approach by software usually makes me nervous as I want to set everything myself, and don't want to think if experimenting with software makes some algorithm make the wrong guesses about what I want w/o knowing it :-o ... note: not everything that can be done has to be done.

arrinkiiii

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2013, 02:58:44 PM »
The delta icon is interesting, though maybe not very intuitive at first sight (but I'm not sure what else to suggest). The module icon looks great!

Presets are unrelated.

About submenus: if the main menu is disabled, would you prefer to hide the individual settings? (they don't normally affect the functionality).

There are some exceptions: e.g. even if auto ETTR is turned off, the parameters from submenu are still used for the ETTR hint on the histogram. Or, the settings from submenu (e.g. Prefs), which don't have a master setting.

*I see this dynamic menu like a check right before star to record, with the possibility to change the settings right there. And normally the things that i mistake more is the fps, pal or ntsc, audio is on or off, picture style, etc... i know that some things is not from ML but from canon but would be good to see this things, because can ruining your work.

For example picture style, i know that im note use this in raw but im not record raw everytime, like so many users. If i go to my nephews birthdays i don't go record raw, h.264 is more then enough, if a client only have a small budget im not going to record raw but h.264 but i want my best picturstyle with the most dinamic for i work in pos and note the picture style from nephews birthdays, normally a regular from canon for not make color corrections in pos.

Is just a example of something that for me is more tragic for ruining a video/clip and my humble opiniao about what i check every time i go record something... fps, picturstyle, pal or ntsc, audio. 

*Yes, now the new menu is more pleasant, you can hide and short the menu, put what is your "best settings that can go wrong"

I'd personally prefer the submenu to remain seen if it's parameters affect functionality.

Indeed  :D but if i don't use cropmarks why should be there? and other settings i need scrool know?


-------

Beautiful dynamic menu... awesome work!!! thank you !!! :D

a1ex

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2013, 03:06:51 PM »
For picture style, try REC picstyle. That one is from ML and will appear in that menu.

Something like this:



So, the menu will show whatever you have modified from ML settings, and you can tell if the cropmarks will be used or not. You can also tell what cropmark you'll get when you'll enable it.

P.S. Nanomad is making great progress with the new nightly build page ;)

arrinkiiii

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2013, 03:31:17 PM »
For picture style, try REC picstyle. That one is from ML and will appear in that menu.

Thank youuuu  :D

I can not experiment now because my autoexec.bat don't have the dinamic menu. Brunonick fix the bug for the Lv freeze in the 7D but the compile that he make don't have dinamic menu... need to wait that some one compile the fix bug with the new autoexec.bat.

stevefal

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Re: Modified settings menu
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2013, 04:09:15 PM »
Proposal to combine MyMenu and Modified:

- add a "star-delta" option to the Customize Menus mode - <blank>, "X", "star", "delta-star"
- delta-star means "include in MyMenu if the value is non-default"
- ML ships with critical/worthy items set to delta-star by default (this is the optimized Modified menu)
- Users can set an item to "star" if then always want it in MyMenu
- Users can set an item to <blank> if they think it is non-critical

This combines the two features and makes MyMenu a one-stop shopping "important settings" menu.
Steve Falcon