[Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable

Started by g3gg0, August 19, 2013, 01:52:01 AM

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g3gg0

i tried this module:
http://upload.g3gg0.de/pub_files/f31d34a7b7f7a7498e52d3eb4ca5c00c/raw_rec_mlv.zip
(it contains the latest 5D3 autoexec.bin and symbol file. 2 months ago we added a new symbol to 5D3 binary)

plugged in, started camera, went into audio menu, enabled SMPTE and pressed Q.
there is selected Test and i got a clean sound.
same when starting raw recording.

in both scenarios the module wrote 101 audio frames.
make sure you use a 25 fps video mode, but others could work too.


it just came into my mind that i probably have the fps counter wrong.
so the devices may not synchronize correctly
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AnotherDave

Well... I'm trying to get a sync with my "new" (used) Tascam HD-P2, and it isn't giving me a useable signal now...

Before, (using TC Toolbox) I was getting a readout that was TOD based free run... but now I get counting from 1 to 10 before the test shuts off.  Also, the frames are always reading :39??

so maybe I have something set wrong?  I'm set to 25fps, canon audio off...

g3gg0

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AnotherDave

With this one, I'm not getting a reading from either my TC Toolbox on my iPad or the HD-P2...?

g3gg0

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stevefal

@g3gg0: I'm not sure if any of your recent responses were directed to me. My latest results are as previously posted. Tell me if you want me to try anything else.
Steve Falcon

stevefal

Quote from: AnotherDave on August 27, 2013, 08:28:44 PM
Before, (using TC Toolbox) I was getting a readout that was TOD based free run... but now I get counting from 1 to 10 before the test shuts off.  Also, the frames are always reading :39??

This sounds similar to my results with the rawrec-integrated experiment, except all mine read :07.
Steve Falcon


AnotherDave


g3gg0

its hard to debug if i have to upload it, wait some hours and check the response in forum that says "nope".
it would help to have a smpte decoding device.
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3pointedit

550D on ML-roids

AnotherDave

Makes me wish I didn't give my nephew my old iPod touch.  Any iOS or Android device can be used as a TC reader.  Do you have access to anything like that?

g3gg0

thanks, this tool is working fine.
didnt have to change *anything* to my module to make it work.

i just changed some things back, so it is now showing the RTC time again.

uploaded a video:
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3pointedit

Omg so we could jam tc to an external audio recorder?! ;D where do you derive first value? Can we jam a free run sync tc value in there somewhere? To sync multiple cameras, also  is this available for h264 via audio channel?
550D on ML-roids

stevefal

Quote from: g3gg0 on September 07, 2013, 03:11:25 PM
i just changed some things back, so it is now showing the RTC time again.

That's great. Let me know if I can help.
Steve Falcon

oddname

As a newbie in some areas of filmmaking, what does one use TC for?
Is it to sync audio and video?

Dannington

What is TC for?

If you use pro audio gear, or even just a simple external recorder, it's a massive time saver to have a master timecode clock.

For example - although ML has greatly improved the existing audio capabilities of canon cameras, it's still not that great.  A step up is to use an external audio recorder - an ok one will give you decent mixing control, xlr inputs with phantom power etc meaning you can use boom mics, radio mics etc.  You can also have huge multi channel setups where you might have up to 16 radio mics plugged in to a hard disk recorder.  This is all very good but without a means of synchronising this audio with the video it all gets very time consuming when it comes to the edit.  You might also have several cameras which all need to use the same timecode clock but that's another story.

Timecode can be encoded into an audio-compatible track and recorded on any device which records audio.  A pro camera usually has a socket marked LTC out and whichever timecode the camera is using, be it a preset timecode or 'time-of-day' timecode is generated and 'played' through this device.  You plug this into your audio recorder on a spare channel and then you've got a rock solid frame accurate sync track for use in editing.

I use avid and if theres an LTC track on any of my audio feeds I can just click 'read audio timecode' and auxiliary timecode tracking info is made available.  Meaning if I jump to 13:21:11:03 on the video track, I can jump to the same place in the audio and instead of using 2 ropey audio tracks I can choose from 16 radio mics, boom mics and whatever else they might have plugged in.

This saves time because otherwise you have to line up the audio to the video by ear - easier if you shot using clapper boards but still pretty time consuming.  I shot something a few months ago using a Roland recorder stuck on the top of my 5Diii.  I experimented with an iphone app which produced TC audio through the iphone's speaker (I waved it in front of my boom mic and the canon's built in mic whenever i started recording).  It was a bit rubbish and I got bored of doing it.  The following week I spent a good day synching up my audio with my video before even starting my edit.  Something else i noticed is the camera's internal clock wavers quite a bit throughout the day.  I was recording audio in hour or two chunks but recording video in 1 to 5 minute chunks and the offset between the audio and video wavered by up to a 2 seconds over an hour.

So, this particular implementation of timecode would involve you plugging a line from the headphone jack of the camera into a spare channel of your audio recorder and enjoying painless editing.

Anyway - TC is really handy depending on what you're shooting.

Midphase

Or you can use Pluraleyes or Premiere Pro CC/   :P

AnotherDave

I've been out of the loop for a little while.

It's working?  Is there a new module, or did I have something set wrong?

Will there be a version that outputs 24p smpte?

Thanks!

3pointedit

Midphase , I'm not sure how Pluraleyes would go with RAW footage that has no scratch sound to sync up ;) The point of TC is to provide another point of reference for both audio and video sources.
550D on ML-roids

Midphase

That's my point....I think it'd be best to see if we can get built-in audio to work again.


stevefal

Also interested in 24fps. Is the source code available?
Steve Falcon

g3gg0

it is already in repository, see:
https://bitbucket.org/g3gg0/magic-lantern/src/tip/modules/smpte?at=unified

24 fps could work also, just after some seconds there may be a glitch, as the rate is not decimal
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stevefal

Thanks.

Not sure I understand. Are you saying that 25fps works without glitches, but 24 can't? Or are you referring to 23.976?

Is your vision that this module would sync with time written to MLV frames, leading to timecode in converted cinemaDNG? Are there  concerns with it working?
Steve Falcon

stevefal

Is it correct that the smpte module requires the raw_rec module from the same repo?
Steve Falcon