Author Topic: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable  (Read 86425 times)

g3gg0

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2013, 09:35:39 AM »
i tried this module:
http://upload.g3gg0.de/pub_files/f31d34a7b7f7a7498e52d3eb4ca5c00c/raw_rec_mlv.zip
(it contains the latest 5D3 autoexec.bin and symbol file. 2 months ago we added a new symbol to 5D3 binary)

plugged in, started camera, went into audio menu, enabled SMPTE and pressed Q.
there is selected Test and i got a clean sound.
same when starting raw recording.

in both scenarios the module wrote 101 audio frames.
make sure you use a 25 fps video mode, but others could work too.


it just came into my mind that i probably have the fps counter wrong.
so the devices may not synchronize correctly
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AnotherDave

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #101 on: August 27, 2013, 08:28:44 PM »
Well... I'm trying to get a sync with my "new" (used) Tascam HD-P2, and it isn't giving me a useable signal now...

Before, (using TC Toolbox) I was getting a readout that was TOD based free run... but now I get counting from 1 to 10 before the test shuts off.  Also, the frames are always reading :39??

so maybe I have something set wrong?  I'm set to 25fps, canon audio off...

g3gg0

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #102 on: August 27, 2013, 11:48:40 PM »
this one has the bug i said fixed
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AnotherDave

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #103 on: August 28, 2013, 12:53:24 AM »
With this one, I'm not getting a reading from either my TC Toolbox on my iPad or the HD-P2...?

g3gg0

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #104 on: August 28, 2013, 01:23:45 AM »
sigh...
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stevefal

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #105 on: August 28, 2013, 01:36:42 AM »
@g3gg0: I'm not sure if any of your recent responses were directed to me. My latest results are as previously posted. Tell me if you want me to try anything else.
Steve Falcon

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #106 on: August 28, 2013, 01:39:28 AM »
Before, (using TC Toolbox) I was getting a readout that was TOD based free run... but now I get counting from 1 to 10 before the test shuts off.  Also, the frames are always reading :39??

This sounds similar to my results with the rawrec-integrated experiment, except all mine read :07.
Steve Falcon

AnotherDave

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #107 on: August 28, 2013, 04:49:30 AM »
sigh...

Don't give up!  It'll get there...

AnotherDave

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2013, 05:12:17 AM »
So I guess this is just dead, eh? :-/

g3gg0

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2013, 09:40:39 AM »
its hard to debug if i have to upload it, wait some hours and check the response in forum that says "nope".
it would help to have a smpte decoding device.
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3pointedit

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2013, 01:46:16 PM »
550D on ML-roids

AnotherDave

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2013, 07:50:35 PM »
Makes me wish I didn't give my nephew my old iPod touch.  Any iOS or Android device can be used as a TC reader.  Do you have access to anything like that?

g3gg0

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2013, 03:11:25 PM »
thanks, this tool is working fine.
didnt have to change *anything* to my module to make it work.

i just changed some things back, so it is now showing the RTC time again.

uploaded a video:
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3pointedit

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #113 on: September 08, 2013, 02:16:01 AM »
Omg so we could jam tc to an external audio recorder?! ;D where do you derive first value? Can we jam a free run sync tc value in there somewhere? To sync multiple cameras, also  is this available for h264 via audio channel?
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stevefal

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #114 on: September 09, 2013, 06:18:36 AM »
i just changed some things back, so it is now showing the RTC time again.

That's great. Let me know if I can help.
Steve Falcon

oddname

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #115 on: September 10, 2013, 03:49:12 PM »
As a newbie in some areas of filmmaking, what does one use TC for?
Is it to sync audio and video?

Dannington

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #116 on: September 10, 2013, 10:16:42 PM »
What is TC for?

If you use pro audio gear, or even just a simple external recorder, it's a massive time saver to have a master timecode clock.

For example - although ML has greatly improved the existing audio capabilities of canon cameras, it's still not that great.  A step up is to use an external audio recorder - an ok one will give you decent mixing control, xlr inputs with phantom power etc meaning you can use boom mics, radio mics etc.  You can also have huge multi channel setups where you might have up to 16 radio mics plugged in to a hard disk recorder.  This is all very good but without a means of synchronising this audio with the video it all gets very time consuming when it comes to the edit.  You might also have several cameras which all need to use the same timecode clock but that's another story.

Timecode can be encoded into an audio-compatible track and recorded on any device which records audio.  A pro camera usually has a socket marked LTC out and whichever timecode the camera is using, be it a preset timecode or 'time-of-day' timecode is generated and 'played' through this device.  You plug this into your audio recorder on a spare channel and then you've got a rock solid frame accurate sync track for use in editing.

I use avid and if theres an LTC track on any of my audio feeds I can just click 'read audio timecode' and auxiliary timecode tracking info is made available.  Meaning if I jump to 13:21:11:03 on the video track, I can jump to the same place in the audio and instead of using 2 ropey audio tracks I can choose from 16 radio mics, boom mics and whatever else they might have plugged in.

This saves time because otherwise you have to line up the audio to the video by ear - easier if you shot using clapper boards but still pretty time consuming.  I shot something a few months ago using a Roland recorder stuck on the top of my 5Diii.  I experimented with an iphone app which produced TC audio through the iphone's speaker (I waved it in front of my boom mic and the canon's built in mic whenever i started recording).  It was a bit rubbish and I got bored of doing it.  The following week I spent a good day synching up my audio with my video before even starting my edit.  Something else i noticed is the camera's internal clock wavers quite a bit throughout the day.  I was recording audio in hour or two chunks but recording video in 1 to 5 minute chunks and the offset between the audio and video wavered by up to a 2 seconds over an hour.

So, this particular implementation of timecode would involve you plugging a line from the headphone jack of the camera into a spare channel of your audio recorder and enjoying painless editing.

Anyway - TC is really handy depending on what you're shooting.

Midphase

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #117 on: September 11, 2013, 12:08:31 AM »
Or you can use Pluraleyes or Premiere Pro CC/   :P

AnotherDave

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #118 on: September 17, 2013, 04:08:22 AM »
I've been out of the loop for a little while.

It's working?  Is there a new module, or did I have something set wrong?

Will there be a version that outputs 24p smpte?

Thanks!

3pointedit

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #119 on: September 17, 2013, 05:24:21 AM »
Midphase , I'm not sure how Pluraleyes would go with RAW footage that has no scratch sound to sync up ;) The point of TC is to provide another point of reference for both audio and video sources.
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Midphase

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #120 on: September 17, 2013, 09:32:49 AM »
That's my point....I think it'd be best to see if we can get built-in audio to work again.


stevefal

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #121 on: September 20, 2013, 08:48:56 PM »
Also interested in 24fps. Is the source code available?
Steve Falcon

g3gg0

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #122 on: September 21, 2013, 04:19:56 PM »
it is already in repository, see:
https://bitbucket.org/g3gg0/magic-lantern/src/tip/modules/smpte?at=unified

24 fps could work also, just after some seconds there may be a glitch, as the rate is not decimal
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stevefal

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #123 on: September 21, 2013, 04:46:17 PM »
Thanks.

Not sure I understand. Are you saying that 25fps works without glitches, but 24 can't? Or are you referring to 23.976?

Is your vision that this module would sync with time written to MLV frames, leading to timecode in converted cinemaDNG? Are there  concerns with it working?
Steve Falcon

stevefal

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Re: [Module/5D3] SMPTE experiment, not usable
« Reply #124 on: September 21, 2013, 04:50:28 PM »
Is it correct that the smpte module requires the raw_rec module from the same repo?
Steve Falcon