5D Raw vs. Alexa vs. BMCC

[Midphase]

I shot this test to see how the 3 cameras would do. I imagine a scenario where the main body of footage would be shot with an Alexa, while the BMCC or the 5D raw would be used on some shots. I wanted to see how these cameras would cut together and compare (not necessarily in quality, but overall visual continuity).

EDIT by SDX: use vimeo url with http:// instead of https://

[Canon eos m]

Are they then comparable from a visual quality perspective? I could not spot major differences. How much was attributable to post.

[Midphase]

I found that the Alexa and the 5D raw could probably cut together quite well. The 5D's dynamic range and the way it handles highlights isn't quite as polished as the Alexa, but if used as a B camera on certain types of shot, I don't think anyone would really spot any major discrepancies.

The biggest disappointment was the BMCC, it was noticeably softer and handled the highlights much worse than the other two cameras. I don't know if the 4K Blackmagic improves on this at all, my understanding is that the dynamic range on the new camera is more limited than the older one.

[CaptainHook]

Hi, had you shot with the BMCC before? I've shot as b cam on the BMCC alongside the Alexa on a couple of TVCs and i was able to get them to match pretty well.

Would you be willing to share a couple of the original Alexa/BMCC files with me? I'm working on a LUT to help make it easier to match the two.

Cheers.

[Perfelti]

Nice footage! I'm surprised how well those three cameras cut together!

If I were to guess, I'd say:

1. Alexa
2. BMCC
3. 5DmkIII

In the garage, #1 kept the highlights from outside quite nicely, leading me to believe it is the camera with the most latitude, the Arri. Also in the garage, camera #3 had a light blue strip where the highlight met the midtone, which leads me to guess that it is the 5D, due to the fact that pulling DNG files from the live view was not canon's intended video recording method And finally, by process of elimination, I'm guessing the BMCC was camera #2!

If I weren't told that it were three different cameras, I don't think I would have even noticed! (excluding the candle lit sequence, but that's just because it's the same camera angle with all three cameras)

I'd love a PM with the answers if you don't want to post them in the thread! Thanks!

[Midphase]

No I don't mind ID-ing the cameras and you're spot on.

I ended up doing some power-window grading on the highlights on both the 5D and the BMCC. I was able to recover some information from the 5D (albeit with some haloing), while the BMCC doesn't have much to recover once you clip it.

In the low light test, I actually think we over-exposed the 5D and I bet I could get much more detail. The 5D was by far the cleanest in the low light test, with the BMCC being almost unusable (especially if you look at the full res Resolve file).

I'm a bit conflicted about the 5D3 honestly, image-wise it can achieve some gorgeous looking footage, but it's not the most production friendly workflow (no audio recording, difficult to monitor, and no real playback). The BMCC is the worst looking of the cameras to me, yet for the price it's probably the one which is most production ready.

Of course, if I could shoot with the Alexa all the time, that is one great looking camera.

[MonteNero]

I was thinking camera 2 was Canon... I'am surprised how low the DR is on 5d. I can bear with burned highlights, but those crashed edgy pitch black shadows on the girl's hair and guy's jeans are just horrible. But may be the blacks were crashed during grading.

[Midphase]

I'm not a colorist so it's possible that in better hands the footage and dynamic range would be better.

[dude]

No one in the world is able to judge material that was uploaded and compressed by vimeo.

[peoplemerge]

@MonteNero - Had an offline discussion with @Midphase.  It's been pretty well supported that 5d3 owns low light territory (with the possible exception of the new Nikon and other FF dslrs that don't do raw video), so after seeing the footage, I had the same comment.

From what we can tell and if I can remember the convo we had (@Mindphase correct me if I'm wrong), ISO on 5d3 was cranked up high as you would expect to do with a DSLR.  Alexa really has just one fixed iso: 800.  If they had had more time to research, it would have been informative to shoot with the same iso, or a variety.  Also worth noting all the iso/sensor improvements this year.

It would be fun to reshoot the candlelight scene.  Hey, everybody's got access to a candle, right?

[Midphase]

The more I work on Alexa shoots, the more I feel that the 5D3 with ML raw can easily act as a B-camera. The footage will intercut fairly seamlessly.

The Alexa is a fine camera, and it would be my #1 choice for a serious shoot, but the 5D3 has matching detail with the ability of getting very useable footage up to 3200ISO which is almost unheard of on any other camera.

Of course, shooting on a camera that was really never designed for video has some substantial disadvantages, but the small form factor, large sensor, high ISO performance and ML raw capability makes it a very good contender for many uses, and IMHO a better option than the Blackmagic cameras in many cases.

[extremelypoorfilmaker]

Thanks Midphase to prove my point.

On cinematography.com I boldly state this: "If you do your homework, nobody will be able to tell the difference between magic lantern and an Alexa" And, of course, I got a BARRAGE of abuse. xD

That said, if I had the choice, I would go for an alexa. No brainer. Why? to put it simple, EVERYTHING else. the 5D3 doesn't have 4 SDI, It's not heavy enough, doesn't have a number of screw holes to securely tight it to whatever support, (I was never a fan of LOG footage), etc. etc.

[hmcindie]

I recently did just this. I shot with the Canon 5d mark III on RAW as a b-cam and had it intercut with the main shooting unit where they used the Red Epic. Haven't seen the edit yet but I've heard really positive things about my b-cam footage.

A couple of things that are better with the 5d raw:

+ Lowlight
+ "the look" (this includes color and full frame look)
+ small size (I can get a shot from any angle, anywhere)

[Surin Dmitriy]

The worst grading (or may be exposure problems) of 5d. Something goes wrong...As was mention above the blacks and highlights too much crushed...

[poromaa]

I would guess

1. Alexa
2. 5DmkIII
3. BMCC

Anyway. I prefer the look of 1 over 2 and 2 over 3. If choosing between 1 and 2 (assuming my guess is right above) I would go for 2 (my guess this is the 5D). Cam 1 has a un-natural or over-realistic IMHO sharpness that I dislike. Also like the colors the most on the 2.

Wrong/right/partly right?

[dfort]

This was answered a long time ago on Vimeo:

Kays Alatrakchi   3 years ago

1: Alexa
2: BCC
3: Canon raw

I need to see about upgrading to a pro Vimeo account because the 720p res really doesn't do this justice.

These tests don't really prove much because there are so many variables like lenses, ISO setting, etc. then it all gets compressed to stream online.

[poromaa]

Saw this was old. anyway thanks for replying. Still, the end result is what counts, and impressed by the skin tones of the BMCC.