Premiere Pro CC Adds CinemaDNG support

Started by stevefal, September 09, 2013, 09:37:16 PM

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stevefal

Steve Falcon

chmee

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CinematicSyndicate

Think of it this way - premiere used to cost around a grand by itself, right? Then you had to buy After effects if you wanted to use that with Premiere...same with the other programs etc. If you bought the software, that would be equivalent to about 20 months of subscription - for one single program. After about 20 months, you would probably want to upgrade anyway. Thus it is an amazing deal and you get a helluva lot more (ALL the CC programs...). Just my 2 cents.

stevefal

Comparing the cost of one program to the whole suite is like apples and oranges. I buy Production Premium which is a suite containing Premiere Pro, After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, Audition, Speedgrade, Encore, and more. Upgrading that suite every few years has been far cheaper than the $500-600 USD per year Adobe wants to lock me into. I don't need to upgrade constantly. These tools are already very powerful and pretty mature.

But worse than the money short term is the idea that an Adobe subscription locks you into paying Adobe whatever they decide. You want to re-open an old PPro CC project five years from now? You'll have to pay Adobe. That is not an issue when I own the software.

Adobe has incentive to be nice to customers now - bring as many people into CC as they can. But down the road, when everyone is invested in the Adobe tool chain, and switching costs are high, Adobe can easily start charging more, and delivering less. They will have a monopoly on tools for opening Adobe projects, and they will be able charge more and more.

Not offering standalone licenses is only in Adobe's interest. I think the decision is driven by greed. If they actually cared about the consumer (silly notion, I know), they would offer a choice of standalone licenses as well. Let consumers decide if the subscription model is preferable, not the stockholders.

Steve Falcon

arrinkiiii

Quote from: stevefal on November 04, 2013, 07:06:40 AM
Not offering standalone licenses is only in Adobe's interest. I think the decision is driven by greed. If they actually cared about the consumer (silly notion, I know), they would offer a choice of standalone licenses as well. Let consumers decide if the subscription model is preferable, not the stockholders.


Indeed !!!

Midphase

I think that you all better get used to it because I get the feeling that many other companies will adopt Adobe's strategy. The way I see it is that things will split up two ways, either completely free or ridiculously low priced apps like the ones that Apple makes which are subsidized by hardware sales or advertising, or subscription models.

I think it's reasonable to gripe about the Adobe CC pricing, particularly if one is using only a handful of the apps they give you for $50/month. If I could pay $5-10 per app/month, I think most users would be ok with that.

Perhaps with wider adoption they will drop the pricing? $50/month is a bit steep for most hobbyists and casual users.

CinematicSyndicate

I concur...there's not alot of options. I suppose I'm biased because I use about 2/3 of their apps so I don't mind - but some people just use Photoshop, for example, and they shouldn't be penalized for that. Anyway...perhaps a little bird from Adobe is listening here and heed our words....

dmilligan

Quote from: stevefal on November 04, 2013, 07:06:40 AM
Adobe has incentive to be nice to customers now - bring as many people into CC as they can. But down the road, when everyone is invested in the Adobe tool chain, and switching costs are high, Adobe can easily start charging more, and delivering less. They will have a monopoly on tools for opening Adobe projects, and they will be able charge more and more.

I see this argument made a lot and I don't buy it. If Adobe increases prices once some people (you used the word 'everyone' which is impossible, and is the main logical fallacy of this argument) are 'locked in', no one else will join, this will stagnate Adobe's earnings. There is no way to have 'everyone' subscribed to CC. Even if every human on earth bought a CC subscription, there would still be 300,000 new potential customers born each day, that have no 'lock-in'.  There will always be more potential customers (until we reach the day that earth's population tops out, but there will be much more to be worried about when that happens than creative cloud) that Adobe can attract, and Adobe will always be looking to attract them.

I imagine that the price for CC will actually go up (after all gas was less than 25 cents/gal in the 50s), but if it goes up more than the rate of inflation, it means that Adobe has more demand for their product, which means they have a better product (than the competition), which means that even though I'm paying more, I'm also getting a better product. (This could be good or bad for me, I might not need a better product).

Basic economic principals will keep the scenario you describe from actually happening. Adobe's own greed means they must set their prices based on supply and demand in order to make as much money as they can.

Kharak

Quote from: stevefal on November 04, 2013, 07:06:40 AM
Comparing the cost of one program to the whole suite is like apples and oranges. I buy Production Premium which is a suite containing Premiere Pro, After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, Audition, Speedgrade, Encore, and more. Upgrading that suite every few years has been far cheaper than the $500-600 USD per year Adobe wants to lock me into. I don't need to upgrade constantly. These tools are already very powerful and pretty mature.

But worse than the money short term is the idea that an Adobe subscription locks you into paying Adobe whatever they decide. You want to re-open an old PPro CC project five years from now? You'll have to pay Adobe. That is not an issue when I own the software.

Adobe has incentive to be nice to customers now - bring as many people into CC as they can. But down the road, when everyone is invested in the Adobe tool chain, and switching costs are high, Adobe can easily start charging more, and delivering less. They will have a monopoly on tools for opening Adobe projects, and they will be able charge more and more.

Not offering standalone licenses is only in Adobe's interest. I think the decision is driven by greed. If they actually cared about the consumer (silly notion, I know), they would offer a choice of standalone licenses as well. Let consumers decide if the subscription model is preferable, not the stockholders.



Hear hear!!

We are the 1% who don't get CC :)
once you go raw you never go back

1%

Well at least your CC and info is safe.... unlike everyone who bought in.

stevefal

Some people like to rent, some like to buy. This goes for houses, cars, all sorts of stuff.

I like to buy. I like to make the decision, on that day, that the product is worth the money, and then buy it. I don't like monthly bills, and I don't want to have to justify the expense every month over and over again. I won't.

I also like to buy things for other people. I have bought Adobe products for my children. I will never do that again because I will be buying them new monthly bills. That's evil.

By "everyone" I don't mean everyone in the world. I mean everyone who's going to buy. I don't need to justify Adobe's business model for them. That's their problem. I am justifying why I won't buy into CC. Whether they will or won't raise prices is unknown. All I know is that they could raise prices, and it would affect me. Having to pay over and over again affects me. Also, I don't want Flash, or Dreamweaver 17 or lots of other stuff that I'd be paying for. That affects me.

I seriously doubt that Adobe will convert 99% of existing customers to CC. I'm sure they doubt it too. But they certainly hope to come out ahead financially in the long run. However if all those users who will convert actually *prefer* the subscription model, then people like me who refuse it represent an additional market for Adobe. Adobe give us the choice, and you'll sell more software!

I would be fine with paying a subscription for UPDATES to the products, but not to keep using them, for dog's sake. So Adobe, offer Production Premium for the old price, including one year of updates and a perpetual license, and I'll be on board.

Steve Falcon

CinematicSyndicate

As crucial as this debate is, perhaps it's best to move it to a new thread. There are several of us with as-of-yet unsolved Cinema DNG issues in Premiere CC...with no help in sight. Help!

stevefal

Steve Falcon

dmilligan

Quote from: stevefal on November 05, 2013, 01:26:48 AM
By "everyone" I don't mean everyone in the world. I mean everyone who's going to buy.
Same difference, the fallacy still applies. There will always be more potential customers. If Adobe manages to sell a subscription to 'everyone who's going to buy' on November 5, 2013, there will be more potential new customers entering the market on Nov. 6, and in just a matter of a year or two marketshare would have dropped from 100% to maybe 80% without loosing a single existing customer, just from new customers entering the market. Growth - everything in econmics is based on this idea. There is no equlibrium you can reach. The same principal is why money just sitting in your bank account (or under the mattress) is loosing value.

Kharak

Quote from: dmilligan on November 05, 2013, 01:42:34 PM
Same difference, the fallacy still applies. There will always be more potential customers. If Adobe manages to sell a subscription to 'everyone who's going to buy' on November 5, 2013, there will be more potential new customers entering the market on Nov. 6, and in just a matter of a year or two marketshare would have dropped from 100% to maybe 80% without loosing a single existing customer, just from new customers entering the market. Growth - everything in econmics is based on this idea. There is no equlibrium you can reach. The same principal is why money just sitting in your bank account (or under the mattress) is loosing value.

When you buy it, you've bought it. When you rent it, you keep paying for it.

When that new generation born on the 6th reaches their 20th birthday, who will have spent more money?
once you go raw you never go back

dmilligan

Quote from: Kharak on November 05, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
When that new generation born on the 6th reaches their 20th birthday, who will have spent more money?

Do you find your 20 year old version of photoshop very useful?

Kharak

Quote from: dmilligan on November 05, 2013, 05:19:06 PM
Do you find your 20 year old version of photoshop very useful?

Yes, as long as I stick to my Cerebral 5D RAW II integraded Brain augmentation. I'll be just fine.

I started writing a long reply explaining my idea of this, but it really doesn't matter. You like renting and thats cool. I like owning my own stuff and thats cool(er). ;)

CC just seems like enslavement to me.

once you go raw you never go back

Midphase

Quote from: Kharak on November 05, 2013, 06:05:17 PM
CC just seems like enslavement to me.

Really?    I think there are quite a few African Americans who would probably disagree with that sentiment.

You have a choice to not buy into the CC ecosystem and look for alternatives. For one you can purchase CS6 and be happy with what it offers you while increasing its capabilities by adding a multitude of 3rd party plugins that bring you closer to what CC offers. Secondly you can look for other apps like Apple Motion, or Nuke instead of AE, and Final Cut X instead of Premiere Pro. Photoshop has quite a few alternatives as well like Pixelmator and many others who are even free. Speedgrade is already been rendered kinda useless thanks to Resolve Lite. As a matter of fact, the biggest threat to Adobe is that Blackmagic purchases Nuke and gives it away for free.

I think Adobe knows that they're pushing the limit with their current pricing, anything higher will lead to many people looking for alternatives that ingenious 3rd party companies will be more than happy to offer.


I think the best thing Adobe could do is to offer a $9.99/month per app price, I think many video guys would get Premiere Pro, Aftereffects and Photoshop for a total of $30/month which seems reasonable even for hobbyists. If they wanted to throw in some freebees with that like Story and some cloud storage...even better!




CinematicSyndicate

QuoteI think Adobe knows that they're pushing the limit with their current pricing, anything higher will lead to many people looking for alternatives that ingenious 3rd party companies will be more than happy to offer.

I think the best thing Adobe could do is to offer a $9.99/month per app price, I think many video guys would get Premiere Pro, Aftereffects and Photoshop for a total of $30/month which seems reasonable even for hobbyists. If they wanted to throw in some freebees with that like Story and some cloud storage...even better!

Most sensible idea on this thread to me yet.

stevefal

They are offering that for Photoshop ($10/month), and a single app plan for $20/month: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html

I'm glad I already have Photoshop CS6 for PC and Mac. That product is so mature I doubt I'll ever need to pay for it again. I certainly wouldn't subscribe just to pick up a few new features.
Steve Falcon

AnotherDave

Seems the latest update to of Premiere fixes the pink issue with CDNGs... but the levels are way off.

timbytheriver

@AnotherDave Do I need to trash prefs or anything fancy to see the result of the PPro update? I'm still getting native pink cdngs on the timeline ... [without my fix of course! ;) http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9418.0]
5D3 1.1.3
5D2 2.1.2

AnotherDave

I'm not sure what happened, but maybe it was just a fluke... when I first installed it and opened a previous project that I had tested RAW clips with, it looked a lot better and I was able to adjust the levels and get a nice image out of it.  After I closed the program and reopened it, it was all pink again.

WTF, Adobe?

painya

Quote from: AnotherDave on December 14, 2013, 09:06:33 PM
I'm not sure what happened, but maybe it was just a fluke... when I first installed it and opened a previous project that I had tested RAW clips with, it looked a lot better and I was able to adjust the levels and get a nice image out of it.  After I closed the program and reopened it, it was all pink again.

WTF, Adobe?
You're not the only one. That happens to me all of the time.
Good footage doesn't make a story any better.

timbytheriver

Quote from: AnotherDave on December 14, 2013, 09:06:33 PM
maybe it was just a fluke... WTF, Adobe?

There must have been a 'z' in the month; a full moon, and North-Easterly breeze. It all helps... ;)

5D3 1.1.3
5D2 2.1.2