Author Topic: Disable ML by default  (Read 6560 times)

msavard

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Disable ML by default
« on: August 13, 2013, 11:30:55 PM »
I share my 600D with my wife. I want to use all the fun ML features, she wants to just click and go. Can we have a setting that will allow one to disable ML by default? It would be just like being able to hold SET while booting up to disable ML but instead have a toggle that would allow you hold SET while turning the camera on to enable ML.

So in a nutshell, allow ML to be disabled by default but enable it with keypress on power on.

Audionut

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2013, 10:12:18 PM »
Tell the missus not to touch the trash can button.  Or buy her a P&S.

SDX

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2013, 11:03:39 PM »
This is the kind of feature that will make every newbee cry. We all know this: we got some new Hard/Software and we instantly have to try everything. No setting will be let unset and no feature untested. Which is great, this is how most of us like to learn and learn best.

That someone turns this feature on and doesn't know how to undo it is unavoidable and will result in dozens of threads here.
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Walter Schulz

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2013, 11:29:10 PM »
Just an idea:

Script will rename Magic.cfg to stored.cfg, copy ML_OFF.cfg (all ML features OFF) as magic.cfg. After restart it doesn't matter if ML is loaded or not.
I suppose (IANAP) this one will be an easy task for someone familiar with scripting.

Ciao, Walter

jbeen1313

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2013, 12:14:22 AM »
Is it not easier just not to load ML on the memory card when you don't need it or want it used, or format card and remove ML. When you want it back copy it on the card again...

Francis

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 12:23:52 AM »
Keep 2 cards, 1 with and 1 without.

Marsu42

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2013, 06:53:57 AM »
So in a nutshell, allow ML to be disabled by default but enable it with keypress on power on.

Even if every ml enthusiast might think this is crazy, imho it makes sense and would make more people try ml if you could say you have to "opt in" with a key press instead of "opt out" like now - people would just feel more secure that ml doesn't interfere if something doesn't work as they expect, they blame ml and are in a hurry or in "my camera will be bricked" panic. Yes, you do need some human empathy to understand the op's wife other than the a blunt ml nerd capability :->

The real problem is: How do you reliably change the behavior again to "opt out" if ml isn't loaded? Maybe a small flag file "ml.disabled" on the card would be feasible, if you delete this ml loads again w/o user intervention. Since this change is really minor I'd +1 the idea.

stoopkid

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Only run ML when commanded, default vanilla firmware
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2013, 06:44:45 AM »
I would really really like if the "hold set to bypass ML" could be reversed so that ML normally doesn't run but will start up if you are holding the set button (or something like that).

A similar feature has been requested but in a much weirder way (ML still runs but all of it's features are bypassed). I was thinking that having the option to simply reverse this already existing feature would be easy to implement.

In fact this would be easy to script if they made a "turn_off_ML" function in the TCC API. (By the way would it be considered a double post if I request this feature in the scripting subforum? Technically it could be used for other scripts)

I don't mean to pretend that I know how much work it would be, I'm not too knowledgeable beyond arduino coding and simple .net coding. But I am hoping that this is a much less demanding request than usual and that I could see it implemented if it doesn't take too much time or work.

Rewind

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Re: Only run ML when commanded, default vanilla firmware
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 09:04:14 AM »
Why in the world you would need such a feature? ))
Don't get me wrong, but ML is exactly what we are all about here. Can't recall any situation, when i'd like to switch it off.

stoopkid

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Re: Only run ML when commanded, default vanilla firmware
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2013, 12:02:31 PM »
I like ML for video but I only do that very rarely. I only need ML about 2% of the time. My video SD cards are my good cards so I still want to use them for photos the rest of the time, so I can't just switch cards.

I don't want to have to switch around a bunch of options every time I switch between them. Also there are other concerns, power saving and power usage. The extra power usage of ML is low but it is still a waste for 98% of the time. Plus I am using nightly builds for video and I don't want to take the risk of bugs messing up anything (a risk I am willing to take with the extra effort and caution I put into video, my video is always scripted, my photography is not). And the functions of the camera are different and inherently less intuitive(canon simply didn't design the cameras for ML).

I know it's not a huge deal but it simply boils down to this: as much as I love ML I rarely need it so all else being equal, if I could default out of it that would be really helpful to me. My hopes are that it would be a very simple tweak, I could even do it myself if turning off ML was included in the picoC API. So that despite most people here probably agreeing with you, the few who feel the way I do could benefit with hopefully little sacrifice.

stevefal

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2013, 01:29:24 AM »
It seems there are two types of users - those who occasionally don't want ML, and those who occasionally do. I am sympathetic to the latter, as my first experience with ML was like some describe. There are so many mysterious settings, many of which can screw up your shooting. At very least you fear they can. It takes time to get over that hump.

Assuming it's possible, how about a option in Preferences:

Preferences
     Override startup >
          Hold SET to unload ML                      (default)
          Hold SET to load ML

If in the 'Hold SET to load' mode, it could display a prompt while bailing, that says, "Hold SET during power-up to load Magic Lantern". This would address the issue of users locking themselves out.

So far, I also use ML only for video. If I had this option, I would use 'Hold SET to load' (opt-in) most of the time, and 'Hold SET to unload' during video projects.
Steve Falcon

deletedAcc.0021

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2013, 01:57:28 AM »
Keep 2 cards, 1 with and 1 without.

Exactly ... its not rocket science people.

Marsu42

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2013, 07:51:34 AM »
Exactly ... its not rocket science people.

It's not about natural science, but social science (psychology) and lowering the _perceived_  barrier to put ml on the camera. I'm very well aware that most programers are more versed in one type of science than the other :-p

ted ramasola

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2013, 07:54:53 AM »
use 2 cards.

5DmkII  / 7D
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stoopkid

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2013, 01:53:00 AM »
That solution completely ignores my main point though. I only use ML about 2% of the time so now I've got a card (a good one, because it's for video) that I can't use 98% of the time.


The thing is, this feature already exists. I am just hoping for an option to swap a single parameter. Turn on ML instead of turn off.

Can someone who actually develops for ML explain how much coding this would require? I am tempted to just look at it myself, I just don't have linux set up at the moment.

Marsu42

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Re: Disable ML by default
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2013, 06:41:04 AM »
Can someone who actually develops for ML explain how much coding this would require? I am tempted to just look at it myself, I just don't have linux set up at the moment.

It would require minimal coding (add a menu option, a flag on the card that tells ml to opt-in & make the bootloader check for that). Obviously it's just that people who are enthusiastic about ml have a hard time understanding the issue and won't participate in disabling ml :-)