Author Topic: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)  (Read 33393 times)

usasikh1

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3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« on: August 05, 2013, 08:09:14 AM »
Working in Windows Environment.

1ST Workflow (#1)  5d raw ->DNG->Premiere(using Ginger Wrapper)->export xml to Resolve(link to DNG footage)-> Grade in Resolve->output to final Media.

THE 1ST WORKFLOW OFFERS ME ACCESSES TO COLOR TEMP,TINT & EXPOSURE ,IF I CHOOSE TO INTERPRET 5D RAW AS BMD FILM. This workflow also has a PLUS that Resolve offers color grading work-space that is much faster than after effects or premiere(looks,Colorista II,etc)

2nd Workflow (#2) 5D raw -> DNG->Cineform Raw->Premier->->export xml to Resolve(link to Cineform Raw footage)-> Grade in Resolve->output to final Media.

THE 2ND WORKFLOW DOES NOT OFFER META DATA ACCESS IN RESOLVE,UNLIKE LIKE THE 1ST METHOD. BUT IT DOES OFFER IN THE STAND ALONE GO-PRO UTILITY APP.  Someone did post that there is a hack or workaround for accessing cineform raw metadata in Resolve but stated it changes the Resolve default Demosiacing(not sure what that means or if it effects the footage)if anyone know please explain. However  cineform Compression saves space so there is clear PLUS to the workflow as well.


3rd Workflow(#3)5D raw -> DNG->Adobe Camera RAW->After effects->Premiere(edit&grade)-> output to final media

THE 3RD WORKFLOW OFFERS THE USE OF ACR WHICH MANY STATE OFFERS BETTER RAW VIDEO COLOR CORRECTION (HIGHLIGHT RECOVERY,COLOR CAST REMOVAL ETC.), THAN CINEFORM UTILITY AND DAVINCI RESOLVE (ANY ONE AGREE OR DISAGREE). however color grading in premiere or after effects seems tedious, (nodal structure of resolve seems easier) and colorista II and looks seem relatively slow in comparison to resolve.


Sorry ended of asking lot of questions within each workflow, but Id be happy with just your input to the best workflow and maybe why.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to reply.

danielschweinert

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2013, 11:16:02 AM »
Do you really need to grade RAW files? Elsewhere I would choose 2nd workflow with CineForm 444 instead and get the job done. You still have a much higher quality than the normal H.264 from the camera. I've done some extensive tests and right now there is no "optimal" workflow without quirks.

DNG to Resolve 9.1.5: On my footage I clearly see jumping "green fringing" on bright edges. See my previous post.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7399.0
Seems like Resolve is optimized for speed and is interpreting the DNGs or cDNGs differently than Adobe Camera RAW. This fringing is not always visible but it's annoying.

The same fringing is visible in CineForm clips when using the "Despeckle/Dead Pixel Fix" slider (set to anything above 0) in the GoPro Studio Premium Advanced Settings.

On the other side the Adobe Camera RAW workflow results in much cleaner output (due to noise reduction, sharpening...) but it's not really a RAW workflow. You can only adjust once when importing the files. And no realtime scrubbing...

kgv5

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2013, 11:36:02 AM »
I am testing my new, easy and pleasant workflow which is:

DNG >>> resolve  - BMD profile, highlights recovery, Hunter's LUT, >>> export DNxHD 444 >>> Premiere - very fast and fluid editing >>> Selecting all - replacing with AE composition >>> stabilizing, adding effects (optical flares, additional CC with looks, colorista II etc) >>> final h.264 export from Premiere.

This workflow for me has the best quality/speed ratio for now. Final image quality is awesome  thanks to very high quality 444 10bit footage which works flawlessly in premiere.

I dont use XMP export from premiere back to resolve because i was having some problems with transitions. I am not an expert in CC so for now I prefer easier ways like looks etc.

EDIT: when you are making those XML roundtrips how are you guys dealing with effects like stabilizing footage, adding flares or other plugins?  I suppose there is no way to make such things in davici via XML so you have to back to AE anyway and make final export from there, am i right? In such case the fact is that your final movie is not from resolve but AE/premiere, right?
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

danielschweinert

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2013, 09:52:58 PM »
Hi kgv5,

this workflow would be fine but I get horrible image quality inside of DaVinci Resolve with jumping green fringing artifacts around bright edges. Though it's not always visible. Don't you have the same problems? Are you using MAC or Windows version of Resolve?

usasikh1

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 10:44:40 PM »
danielschweinert,


Will it be possible for you to send a DNG file that you saw the artifacts with. I wanna test it with resolve. Another thing, is it possible to intial balance or color correct in ACR and than save as a balanced DNG and then grade is Resolve. This way the balance is ready to just be graded and has already been color corrected .

vikado

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 10:57:39 PM »
unless you've got a beast pc, i highly wouldn't recommend grading in premiere, especially if its for a shorts or longer.
playback with many effect levels will hinder realtime playback.
so i would not recommend #3.

edit:
i've never found any green fringing inside resolve. i've been using raw2cdng.exe
5d2 user

usasikh1

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 11:08:15 PM »
unless you've got a beast pc, i highly wouldn't recommend grading in premiere, especially if its for a shorts or longer.
playback with many effect levels will hinder realtime playback.
so i would not recommend #3.

edit:
i've never found any green fringing inside resolve. i've been using raw2cdng.exe


I agree with you Vikado, about grading in Premiere . But I have heard the noise reduction and initial color correction is more accurate in ACR for 5D raw files. SO I am hoping to somehow incorporate ACR for white balance and highlight recovery and noise reduction and then color grade in Resolve. Don't know ifs possible though.

vikado

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 11:26:55 PM »

I agree with you Vikado, about grading in Premiere . But I have heard the noise reduction and initial color correction is more accurate in ACR for 5D raw files. SO I am hoping to somehow incorporate ACR for white balance and highlight recovery and noise reduction and then color grade in Resolve. Don't know ifs possible though.
i absolutely agree with you too.
it kills me that i can't use ACR when working with resolve.
ACR is much faster workflow when white balancing.
although, i wouldn't use ACR to denoise, its too aggressive, imo.
neatvideo does a better job of chroma denoising from what i've seen.

someone mentioned this workflow.
RAW>>dng sequence>resolve>export proxies>import proxies to premiere>>dynamic link to After effects (or open premiere file into AE)>>relink dng sequence>ACR inside after effects>export XML>>import XML to Resolve>>>grade>final render.

im going to see if this idiotic workflow will work.
if it does, im going to smile and cry at the same time.


5d2 user

danielschweinert

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2013, 12:12:32 AM »
@usasikh1

here is a DNG frame from the clip with artifacts:

http://www.schweinert.com/upload/M02-2100_C0000_00010.dng

teedidy

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2013, 12:16:52 AM »
I have had the best luck with the following to use ARC.

RAW -> DNG -> Lightroom4 -> PSD* (or Jpg) -> Premier pro -> SpeedGrade


*Lightroom4 does not convert to 16bit Tiff that Premier pro can read, I have read/seen lightroom 5 does this better.

DNG import to after effects -> any format useable via Premier pro takes a LONG time. (24 hour)

kgv5

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2013, 12:34:22 AM »
Hi kgv5,

this workflow would be fine but I get horrible image quality inside of DaVinci Resolve with jumping green fringing artifacts around bright edges. Though it's not always visible. Don't you have the same problems? Are you using MAC or Windows version of Resolve?
Hi
i am using windows ver, found some tutorial on YT how to get rid of pink artifacts (fringing) (didnt see the green ones yet) and with this picture quality is brilliant.  I tried ACR workflow before but it was so slow, with this one i have made my two last videos and i am very satisfied with the results.
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

usasikh1

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2013, 01:31:16 AM »
Hi
i am using windows ver, found some tutorial on YT how to get rid of pink artifacts (fringing) (didnt see the green ones yet) and with this picture quality is brilliant.  I tried ACR workflow before but it was so slow, with this one i have made my two last videos and i am very satisfied with the results.


Kgv5,


I tried the DNG file from danielschweinert(thanks for that) in resolve and I also get the green artifacts on the bright edges of the table. ANd in ACR its not the case. Must be the Debayering algorithm in Resolve (not sure).

usasikh1

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2013, 01:48:59 AM »
I am testing my new, easy and pleasant workflow which is:

DNG >>> resolve  - BMD profile, highlights recovery, Hunter's LUT, >>> export DNxHD 444 >>> Premiere - very fast and fluid editing >>> Selecting all - replacing with AE composition >>> stabilizing, adding effects (optical flares, additional CC with looks, colorista II etc) >>> final h.264 export from Premiere.

This workflow for me has the best quality/speed ratio for now. Final image quality is awesome  thanks to very high quality 444 10bit footage which works flawlessly in premiere.


Kgv5,

           Would you say the DNxHD 444 is equivalent in quality to prores 444? The reason I ask is because , some of my friends who own Arrie Alexa almost always shoot Prores 444 rather than Arrie RAW (quality vs storage ).

kgv5

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2013, 07:09:24 AM »
Kgv5,

           Would you say the DNxHD 444 is equivalent in quality to prores 444? The reason I ask is because , some of my friends who own Arrie Alexa almost always shoot Prores 444 rather than Arrie RAW (quality vs storage ).

I believe they are comparable. On windows i don't have prores natively.
http://www.avid.com/static/resources/US/documents/dnxhd.pdf

"Avid DNxHD 444: For highest color fidelity and
image quality in 1920x1080 progressive projects.
Full resolution, 10-bit 4:4:4 RGB video sampling
and high bit-rate is excellent for multi-generational
finishing and mastering. Absence of subsampling
or averaging of chroma information preserves the
original color information ensures visually lossless
compression"

DNxHD 1920x1080 29,97 - 440 MBps
Prores 4444 1920x1080 29,97 - 330Mbps

DNxHD 444 is 10 bit while Prores 4444 is 12 but i don't think it will give any significant visual difference.
www.pilotmovies.pl   5D Mark III, 6D, 550D

nico

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2013, 10:32:10 PM »
Hi, I am new in the magic lantern world, just got a brand new 5d m3, I was wondering, what kind of a computer do I need to process all this data? Thanks!

usasikh1

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2013, 09:21:46 PM »
Hi, I am new in the magic lantern world, just got a brand new 5d m3, I was wondering, what kind of a computer do I need to process all this data? Thanks!


That is a very broad question.

joeyxoto

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2013, 03:01:44 PM »
I am testing my new, easy and pleasant workflow which is:

DNG >>> resolve  - BMD profile, highlights recovery, Hunter's LUT, >>> export DNxHD 444 >>> Premiere - very fast and fluid editing >>> Selecting all - replacing with AE composition >>> stabilizing, adding effects (optical flares, additional CC with looks, colorista II etc) >>> final h.264 export from Premiere.

This workflow for me has the best quality/speed ratio for now. Final image quality is awesome  thanks to very high quality 444 10bit footage which works flawlessly in premiere.

I dont use XMP export from premiere back to resolve because i was having some problems with transitions. I am not an expert in CC so for now I prefer easier ways like looks etc.

EDIT: when you are making those XML roundtrips how are you guys dealing with effects like stabilizing footage, adding flares or other plugins?  I suppose there is no way to make such things in davici via XML so you have to back to AE anyway and make final export from there, am i right? In such case the fact is that your final movie is not from resolve but AE/premiere, right?

I'm trying this exact workflow right now, and am having an issue... When I import the DNxHD clips into premier, they come in but when I play them back I just get a white screen... what I doing wrong? I've installed the DNxHD codec, not sure what else I could be doing wrong?

Any  help would be massively appreciated!

mo7ies

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2013, 08:11:01 PM »
For improved workflow, check out this raw utility.

RAW 2 CF RAW quickly converts large raw frames into the video raw files, ideal for real-time previews and edit. Automatic audio merge!
Support on Kickstarter: http://kck.st/16j9MRP

mrnv45

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2013, 06:07:41 AM »

painya

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2013, 07:11:39 AM »
Hi, I am new in the magic lantern world, just got a brand new 5d m3, I was wondering, what kind of a computer do I need to process all this data? Thanks!
Speed speed speed. No matter what you are going to be asking an incredible amount from your computer, and the faster the processor (3.2ghz would be optimal) the less you will have to wait during exports/ rendering and whatnot. SSD's are the best, but expensive. Make sure your hardrive has 7200rpm (should be a given), and at the bare minimum 8gb of RAM (I have 16 on my laptop and it's amazing.) Hope that helped
Good footage doesn't make a story any better.

dickson

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2013, 03:39:17 AM »
I've been using workflow #3, and have a question about the final step, exporting from PP. I've been going the highest quality route (avi uncompressed), and ending up with a ridiculously large file - 15 gb for 2 minutes - that won't even play back properly on my computer. Any thoughts?

mrnv45

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2013, 03:43:19 AM »
h.264
Custom Size
choose your export size
12,000/mbs
progressive scan
highest quality

thats what i choose

dickson

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2013, 05:49:18 PM »
Thanks, that really worked. Weirdly enough the 300 mb file that results looks a bit better than the original monstrosity. What's up with that?

sammyb

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2013, 06:15:28 PM »
From the tests I'v been doing I have processed the RAW files in RawMagic, opened the DNG's up in ACR within After Effects, applied vision-log and adjust the white balance then I export all my shots from AE as ProRes 4444. I then bring all my shots into Premiere.

Been working great for me so far, on windows the best alternative to Prores is Avid's DnxHD codec.

dickson

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Re: 3 Good Workflows for 5D RAW footage (which one is optimal?)
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2013, 08:15:29 PM »
Thanks for the tip about vision log, I'm going to try that. But I'm not sure why you'd exit AE in a compressed format. The big-ass files don't give me any issues in Premiere, so it seems to make sense to leave compression for the last step.