how to get cinema-movement?

[dafassi]

Hi!
I know, the right light, using steady cams or stabilizers, the right sound ... everything is importend to have a good movie-like look.

But it doesnt matter how good the set is up- people and object movements allways look like VIDEO - not like cinema!

Why is this?

Decreasing the playback tempo or framerate will bring more cinema-feeling, but everything is moving slower.  Its not the same like we can see on a cinema-screen!
Is there any other option like a special shatter-setting or anything else to get that classic film-cinematic-feeling?

[chad_magnaye]

compose your shots then colorgrade.

[AnotherDave]

24fps, 180 degree shutter (1/48th), 24-70mm Lens standard, 50mm 1.2, 85mm 1.4

And know where you want to put the camera!

[scarluuk]

Do you have any examples for us to look at and criticize?
What i have learned over the few years i've been in the business is that you learn the most of letting your work evaluate by others.

[freakygeez]

24fps, 180 degree shutter (1/48th), 24-70mm Lens standard, 50mm 1.2, 85mm 1.4

And know where you want to put the camera!

24fps if your in America 25fps for just about the rest of the world. The 180 shutter is also slightly subjective but it does give the best motion blur.

Shots lengths is a purely subjective matter, don't think by putting on a 'nifty-fifty' you'll get a great look it's about lens quality. Zeiss are the entry level for cinematic quality with their primes starting around $1200 (on the extremely cheap side), next up you have canon with their cinema quality lenses at $5000-7000. To get true cinema quality though a simple prime will set you back $30,000

Having said all this, the difference between a videographer and a cinematographer is coverage not quality. Blair witch project.

A news and reality tv shooter is a videographer wherein they get in, get the story and get out.
A cinematographer plans the shot first (even if it is your kids football game... I'll come back to this actually), and then shoots, and then shoots some more. Notice I never mentioned multiple cameras.


So how are we going to shoot your kids football match without it being boring?

1. Mind map, think of all the crazy things you can do with a camera!
2. Storyboard (you know how a match goes so just plan shots around the key points)
3. If your a professional get permission before hand as even attempting an implied release on the day is still a legal nightmare
4. Ask the ref if you can go near the field of follow him around (or if you have something like a go pro get him or the kids to wear one)
5. Are there any tall buildings near by where you could get a cracking over head? No, then bring a ladder!
6. Tell us where the match is! Suck us in with a good establishing shot and don't you dare film a lock off of the clubs name! How about getting there 30 mins earlier and filming the staff prepping for the match?
7. Pov, OS, ROS, CU, RS, Reation, ECU - about the only English there is Reaction but they are all short for key camera moves
8. Shooting in flat is essential for good colour correction and then grading. Technicolour do an excellent profile for canon, Vision colour do two which you have to pay pittance for but in my opinion they are a tad too flat.

So here's how it could go:


1. A wide shot of the goal posts is in center screen, it's a cold and misty morning
2. Our hero's team comes appears screen right doing a warm up run to SL
3. Tracking shot of our hero (if you have a steadicam this would be great)
4. Close Up of the enemy team getting off bus, battle music starts
5. L-Cut of the ref saying something like 'ok lads, play nice', you would probably have to do a wide shot of this as it would be a fast one take
6. As the match progresses do action - reaction shots and if you can get in the field then follow some of the players ( not likely though)
7. stick the camera by a goal post
8. When they win the final goal would be the perfect time to get in on the action if you couldn't already

Great cinematography, therefore, is about making the right choices before and after the event in the editing program by shooting more you are only helping yourself create a better picture and giving yourself more fallback options if something doesn't work.

Get out there get shooting.

[Yuppa]

My 2 cents:

The term "filmic" (which is often used to describe a "cine" look) is HIGHLY subjective.

I shoot RAW (on a 60D with 21/mbs write speed limitation) at 2.35:1, 1344 x 572 @ 18 fps.  I get over 2,000 frames per take.  18 fps is very common in (older) film, like Super 8 (which is STILL used for trailers, shorts, and a few feature films in the UK).

I do NOT use a 180 degree shutter.  It destroys detail by way of excess motion blur.  Also, a 90 degree shutter (a la "Saving Private Ryan") is too staccato for my taste (@ 18 fps, I mean).  I use a happy medium of ~120 degrees (115 to be exact, 'cause that's as close as I can get with my ML config).

I up-res to 720p in Lightroom then export as 1080p @ 18 fps via Movie Studio 12.

Here is an 18 FPS motion test (I've also done testing @ 15 FPS, but 18 is NOW my go to config):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCsxLvvgTk

NOTE: YOUTUBE DESTROYS DETAIL!  The original is MUCH better.  It's not even close (for example, the white hair on my dog is totally blown out).

[iaremrsir]

Hi!
I know, the right light, using steady cams or stabilizers, the right sound ... everything is importend to have a good movie-like look.

But it doesnt matter how good the set is up- people and object movements allways look like VIDEO - not like cinema!

Why is this?

Decreasing the playback tempo or framerate will bring more cinema-feeling, but everything is moving slower.  Its not the same like we can see on a cinema-screen!
Is there any other option like a special shatter-setting or anything else to get that classic film-cinematic-feeling?

I'm assuming you're talking about motion artifacts within the frame that are sometimes subtle, but still give away the fact that you shot on a DSLR. I think it has to do with the actual motion cadence (I believe that's what it's called) of the sensor.

[dafassi]

Thank you for answers and Interesting stuff. Maybe its right. The Kind of Sensor records movment in an other way then Filmcameras does.
The question is.. How can i simulate this?

I found out that flat pic profiles help to give a better optic and Color grading look s just great on this.
And im sure that this things will subjective affect the way we See things.

So the movment is a Very little bit more like on real Film!

I also tryed to record with less fps to make it need to interpolate missing frames to about 24 fps. By this way i wanted to get a different motion style... I had to learn it isnt working :-D.

A good thing is adding a Post motion blur with high quality. I think reel smart is a good one.

The secret of cinematic motion is Very Interesting.. And Hard to explain what i mean.

I think the next days i make a short shot.. Me just working from one side to the other. Maybe some one finds out how to make this motion look like filmed on a real 35mm System ;-).

Good night @all.