550d VAF-txi filter problem

[Rewind]

Recieved the Mosaic Engineering VAF_TXi filter recently. Installed on my 550d, but when switching on or activating LV shutter pops and gives me an Err 20.
Anyone had the same problem with t2i?

[xNiNELiVES]

Recieved the Mosaic Engineering VAF_TXi filter recently. Installed on my 550d, but when switching on or activating LV shutter pops and gives me an Err 20.
Anyone had the same problem with t2i?

I believe you installed it wrong. Look at the website for instructions. You are supposed to enter LV mode, and then put it in.

[Rewind]

I believe you installed it wrong. Look at the website for instructions. You are supposed to enter LV mode, and then put it in.

I've re-checked and verified every step i did of cause.
Somewhere in my mind there is a small glint of info, that there were some similar problem discussed, the author states that vaf txi filter works perfectly with canon 600d but gives an error with 550d, but i believe, nobody solved that situation.

Now i wonder, are there any successful examples of installation this filter on 550d AT ALL? ))
I'm searching the web for this info, but no results yet. That's strange.

Oh by the way, i've tested it on two different bodies, and i've got a couple of random successful attempts with one of them... It just worked for a moment. After the camera turning on, shutter pops and there were no error, shot some test, turned it off, and then the problem comes back.

[Rewind]

Is there anybody who tried mosaic engineering filters on 550d?
Or at least anybody who heard anything about such dare people?
Some information at all? O_o

[Zed3891]

I also got a VAF-Txi earlier this year and found that it wouldn't work on my T2i (550d).

I talked to Mosaic Engineering about it and they said that it usually works on the T2i, but they have had a couple of cases where it didn't work and they're not sure why.

He suggested to me that Magic Lantern may be causing it, but I told him that I hadn't installed Magic Lantern on this camera.

From my attempts to make it work, I've discovered that the problem seems to be related to the lens electronics.
When I put an old, adapted Nikon SLR lens on it it worked (no electronics), but none of my EF or EF-S lenses would work (they all have electronics).

The people from Mosaic Engineering said they might work with Magic Lantern to develop a solution.
They also suggested I try downgrading the firmware to the previous version, but they didn't know how I could do that.
I haven't heard from them for quite a while and they haven't been returning my e-mails lately.
I might just return the filter because it was a bit expensive, the aliasing isn't usually that bad in 1080 mode, and the filter doesn't do anything for 720 mode (where it would be most helpful).


Here are some observations I made while trying to get the filter to work:

•  If the VAF-TXi is in the camera and a lens is attached, the camera will immediately give the Err 20 code if the camera is set to video mode or Live View is enabled (including upon startup while set to Video Mode).
        -  The still photo mechanism works and does not throw the error code in this configuration, unless I use Live View or Video Mode (although the viewfinder doesn't work because of the mirror being locked up by the VAF-TXi and Live View throws the Err 20 error).

•  If I turn on the camera without the VAF-TXi in it, put it in live mode or video mode, and install the VAF-TXi, it doesn't immediately throw the error.   The camera will tell you to attach a lens.
        - If a Canon (or compatible) electronic, EF/EF-S lens is installed, the camera will tell you to push the Live View button to shoot video.  Pressing the Live View button will throw Err 20.
        - If I attach my old, adapted, non-electronic Nikon lens in this configuration, the camera does NOT throw Err 20 when I press Live View, and it allows me to shoot video until I push the shutter button, which causes Err 20 to be thrown.
        - If I attach the old, adapted, non-electronic Nikon lens while the VAF-TXi is installed, then turn the camera off, turning it back on has the same result as turning it back on with the VAF-TXi and any of the other lenses installed.

•  If the VAF-TXi is in the camera, and a lens is NOT attached, the camera will remind you to attach a lens when you turn it on, and tell you to press the Live View button to begin shooting.   
   - At this point, regardless of whether or not you attach a lens, pressing the Live View button will cause the camera to give you the Err 20 code.

Any time I attach an electronic lens to the camera, it makes a motor sound.  The non-electronic Nikon lens (obviously) doesn't.
The inability of the Camera and the Nikon lens to communicate seems to trick the camera into allowing it to work until you turn the camera off and back on or press the shutter button.

[Zed3891]

Additional notes:
"Err 20" normally indicates that there's a problem with your camera's mirror mechanism (and the VAF-TXi does hold up the mirror).

I have seen videos online of footage shot with the VAF-TXi on a 550d, so it does seem to work for some people (as Mosaic claims it does).

Also, yes, I installed the filter correctly.
I even sent pictures to Mosaic Engineering to be sure, and they told me it was correct.

[FrankLad]

I'm also having the Error 20 issue with the Canon t2i and Mosaic Engineering's VAF-TXi.

Recently sold my Canon 7D and VAF-7D filter in favor of getting three Canon t2i cams to shoot with.  Got a VAF-TXi recently (was hoping to order another in the near future) but got the "Err 20" screen.

Tried it on multiple bodies, with both electronic and fully-manual lenses (and no lens at all), to no avail.

I've looked for generic / non-VAF specific ways to "trick" the camera as it relates to the mechanical shutter (because I thought surely someone out there would know a way to use their DSLR in video mode, even after they get a real Error 20 for shutter failure) ...but haven't found anything useful yet.

Hoping someone can suggest ideas.

Thanks, guys!

[John Kesl]

I don't have one, but it seems you should raise the mirror, then install the filter?

[FrankLad]

I don't have one, but it seems you should raise the mirror, then install the filter?

Hey John!  Actually, that's part of the installation process.  The mirror has to be raised for the filter to fit properly:

http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/txi/install.html

(Camera is placed in Live View mode, raising mirror, VAF-TXi is installed, which holds the mirror up.)

[FrankLad]

The folks at Mosaic Engineering are looking into this and will be calling me within a day.  I'm hoping for a workaround, which I'll gladly post here.

In the meantime, I've been able to do some test shots with the Canon t2i + VAF-TXi by installing the filter just after the camera goes into Live View, and just before putting the lens on.
Cumbersome, and not ideal in a real filmmaking scenario (eventually the camera will pop out of Live View mode and you'll have to remove the lens, remove the filter, get back into LV, pop everything back on, etc.) but to be honest, I really don't like the idea of shooting without one, so I may end up doing this each time.

Will try and post some test shots soon.

[FrankLad]

Here's the t2i + VAF-TXi test video:

https://vimeo.com/73831395

This was shot running the ML nightly build from yesterday.
Standard MOV/H.264 video clips but, of course, the difference is more pronounced in RAW footage.

[John Kesl]

Hey John!  Actually, that's part of the installation process.  The mirror has to be raised for the filter to fit properly:

http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/txi/install.html

(Camera is placed in Live View mode, raising mirror, VAF-TXi is installed, which holds the mirror up.)

Copy that. That's what it is for the 7D too.

[FrankLad]

Just thinking out-loud...

Is there a way for Magic Lantern to catch the Error 20 condition and ignore/bypass it?

[FrankLad]

I'm curious about downgrading from Canon firmware 1.0.9 to 1.0.8 and running an older version of Magic Lantern. 

I spoke with David at Mosaic Engineering (who's become aware the Error 20 situation is not just an isolated incident, given the increased frequency of reports) and he says their in-house t2i - which works fine with the TXi filter - is running Canon firmware 1.0.8.

Found the link with information on downgrading (http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Firmware_downgrade) but am a bit unsure about disabling the bootdisk flag, AND not totally sure about ML functionality for 1.0.8 as opposed to 1.0.9, so would appreciate any thoughts on that.

Thanks for any suggestions!



P.S. Here's the text from the CRASH.LOG, which is generated when Canon's Error 20 is displayed:

Code Select Expand


ASSERT: dwDeadLine != 0xFFFFFFFF
at LVState.c:5842, task LiveViewMgr
lv:1 mode:20


Magic Lantern version : v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep04.550D109
Mercurial changeset   : 91c8e0493489 (unified) tip
Built on 2013-09-04 00:22:33 UTC by [email protected].
Free Memory  : 225K + 1697K


[Rewind]

I've tried vaf-filter on 1.0.8 firmware. Same error.

[a1ex]

That's a LiveView error, probably generated by the err20 handler.

You need to investigate how err20 messages appear (where they are triggered from, where they can be killed). If you can find a way to reproduce without a VAF filter, I can take a look.

[Rewind]

If you can find a way to reproduce without a VAF filter, I can take a look.

You can just hold the mirror in raised position by pencil or smth.

[a1ex]

Good point; I've tried with the finger, but didn't trigger the error.

[Rewind]

Good point; I've tried with the finger, but didn't trigger the error.

Seems like not all of the 2ti's are exactly identical )

[FrankLad]

a1ex:  Thank you for reading!  I would have suggested the same as Rewind: to manually hold the mirror up, since this is basically what the filter does.

You need to investigate how err20 messages appear (where they are triggered from, where they can be killed). If you can find a way to reproduce without a VAF filter, I can take a look.

With the filter installed, the error is generated right after you turn the camera on in Video mode.  (or after the Live View button is pressed in photo mode.) There's a slight click (trying to lift the mirror) followed immediately by "Err 20... cannot continue, etc."

The only way I can shoot with the VAF-TXi on my t2i cameras is to let the mirror pop up, THEN insert the filter and pop on a manual lens.  ...but that's not ideal.

I can see that Magic Lantern DETECTS this error condition... I was just wondering if it can basically override and allow the camera to still function.

(Seems like this would also be useful for people with actual shutter failure, apart from filter conflicts... to allow them to still get video life out of their cameras.)

Seems like not all of the 2ti's are exactly identical )

It really seems like it.

[3pointedit]

Does error 20only occur with auto lens on front. You can't test that with finger on mirror then. Can you prop the mirror open with lens on? If manual lens is ok, perhaps it is an aperture call that triggers the error, like a exposure simulation event.

[FrankLad]

Does error 20only occur with auto lens on front. You can't test that with finger on mirror then. Can you prop the mirror open with lens on? If manual lens is ok, perhaps it is an aperture call that triggers the error, like a exposure simulation event.

Hi, 3pointedit!  I'm only able to shoot with manual lenses using the trick above.  Auto/electric lenses will not work in that scenario, as you point out.

But the Error 20 itself occurs simply when the mirror is held up, regardless of whether a lens is on the front or not.

[FrankLad]

Ok, I had the chance to put together a quick video showing the problem...

https://vimeo.com/73916093

[FrankLad]

Just received the following email from Dave Cubanski (Mosaic Engineering founder).
He has been really helpful, and is keen on trying to figure out a solution to this.

Here's some additional information for you:  Earlier this morning,
we went ahead and upgraded the firmware in our T2i, from 1.0.8, to
1.0.9.  Happily, the camera still works fine with our filter; no
hint of this error condition.  By the way we did get your email
about the downgrade process; thanks for that; it may come in handy
still...

Later today, LiLi (here) is going to be installing Magic Lantern also;
I'll let you know if we run into any error conditions in relation to
that.

I'm still keenly interested to know, if the error occurs on your third
T2i, once you get it back, so let us know as soon as you discover
anything either way.

Lastly: Now that the 1.0.9 firmware seems to be working fine here, I'm
increasingly interested in swapping our T2i for one of yours which
produces the error.  As I had said, if we could access one of these
malfunctioning camera bodies for something like a couple of months, it
might give us the chance we need to find a way to make real headway
against this increasingly troubling issue - either through a modification
to the ML firmware, or by some other way.

This seems to confirm there ARE variances in t2i cameras.

The question remains... is it possible to bypass "Err 20" through Magic Lantern?

[FrankLad]

Just wanted to confirm I've now tried the VAF-TXi on three Canon t2i cameras, with no success.  (At least, not without using the clumsy workaround mentioned above.)

The last camera I received had the 1.0.8 firmware which, as alluded to earlier, made no difference; still got "Err 20."

I've since updated it to 1.0.9 w/ latest Magic Lantern, CineStyle, etc. so at least it's up to par with the rest of my cameras... though I dread the idea of shooting a film without an optical anti-aliasing filter.  (While technically I can use it, I can't see it working well for the camera guys on-set, having to (cleanly) open/close/open the camera so many times, carefully installing the filter so frequently.)

Still searching/experimenting and SERIOUSLY hoping for a solution to this.

[nanomad]

It would be helpful if you could upload a debug.log

[FrankLad]

It would be helpful if you could upload a debug.log

Hi, nanomad!  I've uploaded the most recent log here:

http://www.frankladner.com/pubimages/LOG027.LOG

Thanks for any help you can offer!

[nanomad]

Unfortunately that log seems incomplete. Make sure you turn off the camera *after* the red light turns off when error 20 comes up on screen.

[FrankLad]

Unfortunately that log seems incomplete. Make sure you turn off the camera *after* the red light turns off when error 20 comes up on screen.

Ahhhh, my apologies.  Here's a complete log:

http://www.frankladner.com/pubimages/LOG028.LOG

[FrankLad]

Update:  Mosaic Engineering had me ship one of my Canon t2i cams to their office for comparison against their own t2i that works with the VAF-TXi filter.

My gut feeling is that a solution will have to come through a software change (ie. Error 20 override/bypass) or some type of fairly drastic hardware change... but I'm hopeful they - or someone here in the forums - can figure out an answer.

Thanks for reading!

[donjames150]

Update:  Mosaic Engineering had me ship one of my Canon t2i cams to their office for comparison against their own t2i that works with the VAF-TXi filter.

My gut feeling is that a solution will have to come through a software change (ie. Error 20 override/bypass) or some type of fairly drastic hardware change... but I'm hopeful they - or someone here in the forums - can figure out an answer.

Thanks for reading!

I recently ordered a VAF filter from Mosaic (not received yet). This is what they wrote me yesterday regarding the err20 issue. I have the T4i, so I don't think it will be my issue, but for those who bought this who have the t2i and t3i.....

Thanks for your order of the VAF-TXi anti-aliasing filter, pending in our system as of today.  As you know we had some delay in shipping this filter as it had gone out of stock; we now have this filter available once again and are ready to ship your order to you at this point.

Before we ship this filter to you, however, we'd just like to confirm in advance with you regarding an emerging issue that has recently come to our awareness, with the T2i/550D and the T3i/600D - in case you are intending to use the VAF-TXi with one of these cameras.  (So far we do not know of this issue to occur with the T4i/650D or T5i/700D - only with the T2i/550D and the T3i/600D).

Here's the situation currently:  Occasionally, a photographer with a T2i or T3i will report an "Err 20" code when trying to use our VAF-TXi.  (This seems to be restricted to these two specific cameras, and their international counterparts, the 550D and 600D; we have not had it reported in connection with any other camera body.)  However, it's relatively easy to know in advance, whether this will be an issue with any of your cameras; basically this amounts to supporting the a camera's reflex mirror gently with your finger, in the same way that our filter will when installed.  Specifically, here's a quick check you can run, to test if it would happen with your camera:

1) Remove your camera's lens.

2) Put the camera in "movie" mode with the selector dial on top.

3) Turn the camera on; you will receive a message on the LCD screen to the effect that no lens it attached.

4) Press the "Live View" button.  The mirror will raise and the focal plane shutter will open, and you will see a blurry overexposed image of light on the LCD screen.  So far, this is all exactly the normal behavior.

5) Now, pretend to the camera that you've installed our VAF-TXi filter, by gently holding the mirror up with a finger.  Please see here - http://mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/txi/install.html - for a clear view of how our filter holds the mirror up.

6) Still holding the mirror gently up, turn the camera off, then back on.  Again you will receive a message on the LCD screen to the effect that no lens it attached.

7) Again still holding the mirror up, press the live view button:

8a) The focal plane shutter should click open, and again you should see a blurry overexposed image of light on the LCD screen.  This is the normal behavior that is generally seen, and indicates that the VAF-TXi will work fine with your camera!

8b) On the other hand, some photographers at this stage, have reported that the camera displays an "Err 20" message instead of going into Live View, preventing the recording of video.  (By turning the camera off and removing either your finger or the VAF-TXi, the camera returns to normal.)

Please let us know what happens, when you try this!  At this point, we're working with the Magic Lantern developers to try to find a solution to this problem where it occurs, but unfortunately this is still a work in progress.

Anyway please let us know which of the camera bodies you have, and what you find, and if things look well we'll get the filter out to you as soon as possible.

Thank you any ways for your interest in our filters;

Best,

Max

[PaulHarwood856]

I can confirm as well that replacing the shutter on my Canon T3i fixed the Err 20 issue with the VAF-TXI. Mosaic Engineering told me this would most likely fix the issue, and it did! It's a bummer to have to replace the shutter, but according to Canon, it needed to be replaced anyway. Also, if you don't have the money to spend on this filter, you can purchase for $9, the Visiontech Picture Profile (You also get Visioncolor). Here is the link to purchase: http://www.vision-color.com/visioncolor-for-canon-eos/ This cuts down on moire and aliasing pretty well in 1080p mode. I am just happy that this filter works in 720p mode (Mosaic Engineering told me), as well as all my lenses but my Opteka 6.5mm fisheye. Mosaic Engineering confirmed the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 will work with this filter, but the Canon EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 doesn't work well. I also am finding this product very helpful for raw video. I hope this helps anyone out there trying to remove moire and aliasing.

- Paul Harwood

[PaulHarwood856]

Hey ZachGoodwin,

     So sorry to hear you are getting the error message again. I can feel your frustration, I know I was at least when I first experienced this error before having to replace the shutter. I would try calling Canon, and see if they can trouble shoot. It seems Mosaic Engineering has done everything they can do, but it's definitely worth a try to call Canon and tell them this error came up again, even after a little time passed since replacing the shutter. Please let us know how this goes.

     Just a thought, a Canon T2i is pretty affordable used nowadays, and this error seems to be a problem with only some of the Canon T2is and T3is, according to Mosaic Engineering when I spoke to them. I also spoke to FrankLad, and he said the same thing, if I remember correct.

     So, possibly spending money on replacing the shutter a second time, it might be a better idea to purchase a used T2i, and use your current one as a backup camera (so your main one has no aliasing). I hope this makes sense, and that everything works out for you. Please let me know if I can be of any help.

- Paul Harwood

[PaulHarwood856]

Hey ZachGoodwin,

    So glad to see you fixed your T2i error message. I wasn't telling you to sell your T2i, I'm aware it's perfectly fine. What I was saying was, if you were considering paying to replace the shutter again, you could buy one more T2i instead, possibly without the error message (since some T2is have it and some don't according to Mosaic Engineering).

- Paul Harwood

[Ottoga]

@zachgoodwin
So what did you do with the screw? Put a shorter/longer one in or something else?

A detailed explaination may help others with a similar problem.

[Brawl]

I didn't understand how that screw was the cause of the error 20. and how did you fixed it?

can you explain better please?


thx

[rsmith02]

I just got a VAX-TXi for use with my t3i. The error it is giving is an Error 30 which happens when after using the filter for filming I turn the power off. I also have an issue where I install the filter, and try to shoot but while the mirror is up, the shutter is still in the way (I can see it through the lens).

As a work around, if I switch to a photo mode and then back into video the shutter retreats and I can use the camera.

I can also get the camera to work after an error 30 by removing and reinserting the battery and then doing the same photo mode to video mode trick. It is annoying but not a huge issue.

The footage is a bit soft and it's hard to focus as the magnified views are really soft but the filter does remove aliaising and moire.

[PaulHarwood856]

Hey rsmith02,

     I'm glad you found a workaround for your T3i and VAF-TXI. I didn't try those options, but I did notice the Err 20 (I think you have Err 30) got worse and worse and I simply couldn't take it anymore. Did you try calling Mosaic Engineering? They might be able to troubleshoot with you. Worth a try.

- Paul Harwood

[PaulHarwood856]

Hey summervibes,

    I had the Error 20 issue with my Canon T3i when using the VAF-TXI. It was resolved when I got the shutter replaced by Canon. It cost $250, in 2015. My recommendation is get an estimate from this place in New York: https://phototech.com/digital-slr-camera-repair/

    Apparently it is cheaper to get a shutter replacement.

    I love shooting with VAF filters, they really do help remove aliasing and moire.

- Paul