Author Topic: 550d VAF-txi filter problem  (Read 25214 times)

Rewind

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550d VAF-txi filter problem
« on: July 23, 2013, 04:22:22 AM »
Recieved the Mosaic Engineering VAF_TXi filter recently. Installed on my 550d, but when switching on or activating LV shutter pops and gives me an Err 20.
Anyone had the same problem with t2i?

xNiNELiVES

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 06:53:08 AM »
Recieved the Mosaic Engineering VAF_TXi filter recently. Installed on my 550d, but when switching on or activating LV shutter pops and gives me an Err 20.
Anyone had the same problem with t2i?

I believe you installed it wrong. Look at the website for instructions. You are supposed to enter LV mode, and then put it in.

Rewind

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2013, 09:24:22 AM »
I believe you installed it wrong. Look at the website for instructions. You are supposed to enter LV mode, and then put it in.
I've re-checked and verified every step i did of cause.
Somewhere in my mind there is a small glint of info, that there were some similar problem discussed, the author states that vaf txi filter works perfectly with canon 600d but gives an error with 550d, but i believe, nobody solved that situation.

Now i wonder, are there any successful examples of installation this filter on 550d AT ALL? ))
I'm searching the web for this info, but no results yet. That's strange.

Oh by the way, i've tested it on two different bodies, and i've got a couple of random successful attempts with one of them... It just worked for a moment. After the camera turning on, shutter pops and there were no error, shot some test, turned it off, and then the problem comes back.

Rewind

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 01:24:31 PM »
Is there anybody who tried mosaic engineering filters on 550d?
Or at least anybody who heard anything about such dare people?
Some information at all? O_o

Zed3891

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2013, 12:58:13 AM »
I also got a VAF-Txi earlier this year and found that it wouldn't work on my T2i (550d).

I talked to Mosaic Engineering about it and they said that it usually works on the T2i, but they have had a couple of cases where it didn't work and they're not sure why.

He suggested to me that Magic Lantern may be causing it, but I told him that I hadn't installed Magic Lantern on this camera.

From my attempts to make it work, I've discovered that the problem seems to be related to the lens electronics.
When I put an old, adapted Nikon SLR lens on it it worked (no electronics), but none of my EF or EF-S lenses would work (they all have electronics).

The people from Mosaic Engineering said they might work with Magic Lantern to develop a solution.
They also suggested I try downgrading the firmware to the previous version, but they didn't know how I could do that.
I haven't heard from them for quite a while and they haven't been returning my e-mails lately.
I might just return the filter because it was a bit expensive, the aliasing isn't usually that bad in 1080 mode, and the filter doesn't do anything for 720 mode (where it would be most helpful).


Here are some observations I made while trying to get the filter to work:

•  If the VAF-TXi is in the camera and a lens is attached, the camera will immediately give the Err 20 code if the camera is set to video mode or Live View is enabled (including upon startup while set to Video Mode).
        -  The still photo mechanism works and does not throw the error code in this configuration, unless I use Live View or Video Mode (although the viewfinder doesn't work because of the mirror being locked up by the VAF-TXi and Live View throws the Err 20 error).

•  If I turn on the camera without the VAF-TXi in it, put it in live mode or video mode, and install the VAF-TXi, it doesn't immediately throw the error.   The camera will tell you to attach a lens.
        - If a Canon (or compatible) electronic, EF/EF-S lens is installed, the camera will tell you to push the Live View button to shoot video.  Pressing the Live View button will throw Err 20.
        - If I attach my old, adapted, non-electronic Nikon lens in this configuration, the camera does NOT throw Err 20 when I press Live View, and it allows me to shoot video until I push the shutter button, which causes Err 20 to be thrown.
        - If I attach the old, adapted, non-electronic Nikon lens while the VAF-TXi is installed, then turn the camera off, turning it back on has the same result as turning it back on with the VAF-TXi and any of the other lenses installed.

•  If the VAF-TXi is in the camera, and a lens is NOT attached, the camera will remind you to attach a lens when you turn it on, and tell you to press the Live View button to begin shooting.   
   - At this point, regardless of whether or not you attach a lens, pressing the Live View button will cause the camera to give you the Err 20 code.

Any time I attach an electronic lens to the camera, it makes a motor sound.  The non-electronic Nikon lens (obviously) doesn't.
The inability of the Camera and the Nikon lens to communicate seems to trick the camera into allowing it to work until you turn the camera off and back on or press the shutter button.

Zed3891

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2013, 01:05:06 AM »
Additional notes:
"Err 20" normally indicates that there's a problem with your camera's mirror mechanism (and the VAF-TXi does hold up the mirror).

I have seen videos online of footage shot with the VAF-TXi on a 550d, so it does seem to work for some people (as Mosaic claims it does).

Also, yes, I installed the filter correctly.
I even sent pictures to Mosaic Engineering to be sure, and they told me it was correct.

FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 02:17:00 AM »
I'm also having the Error 20 issue with the Canon t2i and Mosaic Engineering's VAF-TXi.

Recently sold my Canon 7D and VAF-7D filter in favor of getting three Canon t2i cams to shoot with.  Got a VAF-TXi recently (was hoping to order another in the near future) but got the "Err 20" screen.

Tried it on multiple bodies, with both electronic and fully-manual lenses (and no lens at all), to no avail.

I've looked for generic / non-VAF specific ways to "trick" the camera as it relates to the mechanical shutter (because I thought surely someone out there would know a way to use their DSLR in video mode, even after they get a real Error 20 for shutter failure) ...but haven't found anything useful yet.

Hoping someone can suggest ideas.

Thanks, guys!

John Kesl

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 02:28:42 AM »
I don't have one, but it seems you should raise the mirror, then install the filter?

FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 02:34:32 AM »
I don't have one, but it seems you should raise the mirror, then install the filter?

Hey John!  Actually, that's part of the installation process.  The mirror has to be raised for the filter to fit properly:

http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/txi/install.html

(Camera is placed in Live View mode, raising mirror, VAF-TXi is installed, which holds the mirror up.)


FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2013, 04:30:52 AM »
The folks at Mosaic Engineering are looking into this and will be calling me within a day.  I'm hoping for a workaround, which I'll gladly post here.

In the meantime, I've been able to do some test shots with the Canon t2i + VAF-TXi by installing the filter just after the camera goes into Live View, and just before putting the lens on.
Cumbersome, and not ideal in a real filmmaking scenario (eventually the camera will pop out of Live View mode and you'll have to remove the lens, remove the filter, get back into LV, pop everything back on, etc.) but to be honest, I really don't like the idea of shooting without one, so I may end up doing this each time.

Will try and post some test shots soon.


FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 05:20:56 AM »
Here's the t2i + VAF-TXi test video:

https://vimeo.com/73831395

This was shot running the ML nightly build from yesterday.
Standard MOV/H.264 video clips but, of course, the difference is more pronounced in RAW footage.

John Kesl

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 06:51:38 AM »
Hey John!  Actually, that's part of the installation process.  The mirror has to be raised for the filter to fit properly:

http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/txi/install.html

(Camera is placed in Live View mode, raising mirror, VAF-TXi is installed, which holds the mirror up.)

Copy that. That's what it is for the 7D too.

FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 04:19:11 PM »
Just thinking out-loud...

Is there a way for Magic Lantern to catch the Error 20 condition and ignore/bypass it?





FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2013, 10:55:08 PM »
I'm curious about downgrading from Canon firmware 1.0.9 to 1.0.8 and running an older version of Magic Lantern. 

I spoke with David at Mosaic Engineering (who's become aware the Error 20 situation is not just an isolated incident, given the increased frequency of reports) and he says their in-house t2i - which works fine with the TXi filter - is running Canon firmware 1.0.8.

Found the link with information on downgrading (http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Firmware_downgrade) but am a bit unsure about disabling the bootdisk flag, AND not totally sure about ML functionality for 1.0.8 as opposed to 1.0.9, so would appreciate any thoughts on that.

Thanks for any suggestions!



P.S. Here's the text from the CRASH.LOG, which is generated when Canon's Error 20 is displayed:

Code: [Select]
ASSERT: dwDeadLine != 0xFFFFFFFF
at LVState.c:5842, task LiveViewMgr
lv:1 mode:20


Magic Lantern version : v2.3.NEXT.2013Sep04.550D109
Mercurial changeset   : 91c8e0493489 (unified) tip
Built on 2013-09-04 00:22:33 UTC by [email protected]
Free Memory  : 225K + 1697K



Rewind

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2013, 11:01:43 PM »
I've tried vaf-filter on 1.0.8 firmware. Same error.

a1ex

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2013, 11:02:13 PM »
That's a LiveView error, probably generated by the err20 handler.

You need to investigate how err20 messages appear (where they are triggered from, where they can be killed). If you can find a way to reproduce without a VAF filter, I can take a look.

Rewind

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2013, 11:05:03 PM »
If you can find a way to reproduce without a VAF filter, I can take a look.
You can just hold the mirror in raised position by pencil or smth.

a1ex

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2013, 11:06:42 PM »
Good point; I've tried with the finger, but didn't trigger the error.

Rewind

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2013, 11:09:00 PM »
Good point; I've tried with the finger, but didn't trigger the error.
Seems like not all of the 2ti's are exactly identical )

FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2013, 03:29:29 AM »
a1ex:  Thank you for reading!  I would have suggested the same as Rewind: to manually hold the mirror up, since this is basically what the filter does.

You need to investigate how err20 messages appear (where they are triggered from, where they can be killed). If you can find a way to reproduce without a VAF filter, I can take a look.

With the filter installed, the error is generated right after you turn the camera on in Video mode.  (or after the Live View button is pressed in photo mode.) There's a slight click (trying to lift the mirror) followed immediately by "Err 20... cannot continue, etc."

The only way I can shoot with the VAF-TXi on my t2i cameras is to let the mirror pop up, THEN insert the filter and pop on a manual lens.  ...but that's not ideal.

I can see that Magic Lantern DETECTS this error condition... I was just wondering if it can basically override and allow the camera to still function.

(Seems like this would also be useful for people with actual shutter failure, apart from filter conflicts... to allow them to still get video life out of their cameras.)

Seems like not all of the 2ti's are exactly identical )

It really seems like it.

3pointedit

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2013, 04:37:23 AM »
Does error 20only occur with auto lens on front. You can't test that with finger on mirror then. Can you prop the mirror open with lens on? If manual lens is ok, perhaps it is an aperture call that triggers the error, like a exposure simulation event.
550D on ML-roids

FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2013, 05:57:56 AM »
Does error 20only occur with auto lens on front. You can't test that with finger on mirror then. Can you prop the mirror open with lens on? If manual lens is ok, perhaps it is an aperture call that triggers the error, like a exposure simulation event.

Hi, 3pointedit!  I'm only able to shoot with manual lenses using the trick above.  Auto/electric lenses will not work in that scenario, as you point out.

But the Error 20 itself occurs simply when the mirror is held up, regardless of whether a lens is on the front or not.







FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2013, 07:16:28 AM »
Ok, I had the chance to put together a quick video showing the problem...

https://vimeo.com/73916093




FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2013, 05:58:00 PM »
Just received the following email from Dave Cubanski (Mosaic Engineering founder).
He has been really helpful, and is keen on trying to figure out a solution to this.


Quote
Here's some additional information for you:  Earlier this morning,
we went ahead and upgraded the firmware in our T2i, from 1.0.8, to
1.0.9.  Happily, the camera still works fine with our filter; no
hint of this error condition.  By the way we did get your email
about the downgrade process; thanks for that; it may come in handy
still...

Later today, LiLi (here) is going to be installing Magic Lantern also;
I'll let you know if we run into any error conditions in relation to
that.

I'm still keenly interested to know, if the error occurs on your third
T2i, once you get it back, so let us know as soon as you discover
anything either way.

Lastly: Now that the 1.0.9 firmware seems to be working fine here, I'm
increasingly interested in swapping our T2i for one of yours which
produces the error.  As I had said, if we could access one of these
malfunctioning camera bodies for something like a couple of months, it
might give us the chance we need to find a way to make real headway
against this increasingly troubling issue - either through a modification
to the ML firmware, or by some other way.


This seems to confirm there ARE variances in t2i cameras.

The question remains... is it possible to bypass "Err 20" through Magic Lantern?


FrankLad

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Re: 550d VAF-txi filter problem
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2013, 02:04:32 AM »
Just wanted to confirm I've now tried the VAF-TXi on three Canon t2i cameras, with no success.  (At least, not without using the clumsy workaround mentioned above.)

The last camera I received had the 1.0.8 firmware which, as alluded to earlier, made no difference; still got "Err 20."

I've since updated it to 1.0.9 w/ latest Magic Lantern, CineStyle, etc. so at least it's up to par with the rest of my cameras... though I dread the idea of shooting a film without an optical anti-aliasing filter.  (While technically I can use it, I can't see it working well for the camera guys on-set, having to (cleanly) open/close/open the camera so many times, carefully installing the filter so frequently.)

Still searching/experimenting and SERIOUSLY hoping for a solution to this.