Author Topic: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively  (Read 20690 times)

Shield

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Is there one?  I've been reading and searching for a while and I'm starting to get a headache.

From my own use, I can confirm that Adobe After Effects v6 will open and import a DNG sequence.

Premiere Pro 6 / Sony Vegas 11 will not.  Both will do other sequences, like .jpg sequences.

From what I've read the latest version of Davinci Resolve will do it.

Anyone have any others?  I don't want to spend all day extracting and converting to many other file formats, and the bummer about Adobe After effects (even the latest CC version) is it doesn't support CUDA for exporting H264.  It will use CUDA for 3d rendering and to speed up previews, but not for actual rendering.

Shawn

Shield

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 08:57:24 PM »
Like for example, does SpeedGrade CS6 support DNG sequence imports?  Anyone know?

chmee

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 10:50:41 PM »
The DNG's created by raw2dng are not supported because of the "odd" bitdepth of 14bit/sensel. Common bitdepths in videoworld are 8, 10, 12 and 16bit. resolve 9.1.5 is by now the only one app, that can work natively with the 14bit-DNGs. speedgrade does not work with them. Thats, why there are raw->cdng-converters. (the acr/aftereffects-way is not native, its converted once in the beginning and then you have no chance to re-adjust values)

regards chmee

kgv5

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 12:55:33 AM »
(the acr/aftereffects-way is not native, its converted once in the beginning and then you have no chance to re-adjust values)

yes, you can. You can adjust the values quite fast in AE- right click on the footage>replace footage>go to the same folder with dng's and select one dng>you're back in ACR so you can change the values anytime.
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chmee

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2013, 10:03:10 AM »
:D but not with keys, dynamically in the timeline - (and) you're losing all the benefits of having 14bit/colorchannel while you're heavy grading. thats not my understanding of "working with higher bitdepths", ACR is just a to8bit-converter.

--> just to repeat the important thing -> the cdng-converters are writing 10 12 or 16bit dng-files - they are mostly usable, IF the video app is supporting dng. (and there are not much video-apps understanding videodata higher than 10bit/channel!)

Shield

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 12:55:06 PM »
So which apps other than resolve / Adobe CC support DNG sequences?  Would love a nice easy to use (fast) NLE editor to import my footage into.  I pulled down Davinci Resolve Lite yesterday and it's very fast, but I sure miss the ease of use of Adobe After effects (and the ACR sliders).

Audionut

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2013, 02:30:10 PM »
(and) you're losing all the benefits of having 14bit/colorchannel while you're heavy grading. thats not my understanding of "working with higher bitdepths", ACR is just a to8bit-converter.

?

Quote
Editing images in Camera Raw

All the controls in Camera Raw are there for a reason. The basic philosophy is to let Camera
Raw perform those operations that are best done on the raw image. If you just use Camera Raw
at default settings to open images in Photoshop, then make all your adjustments there, you’re
making extra work for yourself, and almost certainly not getting the best possible results. The
fundamental difference between editing in Camera Raw and editing in Photoshop is that in the
former, you’re editing the conversion from the raw to a rendered image, while in the latter you’re
simply moving levels around in an already-rendered image. So learning your way around the
controls in Camera Raw is key to exploiting the raw format.

https://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_camraw3.pdf

ACR will output to 8-bit and 16-bit depths.

chmee

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2013, 03:22:16 PM »
@audionut once, you converted the raws/dngs, they're pseudo-baken into 8 or 16bit (yes, that happends, if acr has done his job) - if you're in 8bit, you've lost all benefits - to be honest, how many are working with 16bit?

so, to be gentle - yes, it works, its slow, you're using a compositing app for cutting videos with slight pic-editing - something, premiere would be obvious the better app - i still wait, premiere will work with the files natively. sorry i discuss the adobeworld, but i'm not nearly satisfied with this workflow.

regards chmee

Audionut

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2013, 03:54:40 PM »
pseudo-baken

?


into 8 or 16bit (yes, that happends, if acr has done his job) - if you're in 8bit, you've lost all benefits - to be honest, how many are working with 16bit?

Of course, if you reduce the bitdepth to 8 bits, you reduce the number of available tonal ranges quite significantly.  The bits aren't simply thrown away though.  And eventually, it has to be reduced to 8 bits.  Given that the input is 14bits and the only other output option is 16bits, sure, the data has to be mapped which can lead to rounding errors.  If you can see those rounding errors (in the output to 16bits), you should be grading feature films :P

Last I heard, Divinci resolve now supports 14bit DNG's, and that's cool, it honestly is.  But it's $1000 cool.  Not to mention the requirement of a Nvidia based graphic card, which not only leads to the (smallish) expense of the initial purchase of the card, you also reduce the list of devices capable of supporting the software considerably, and the on-going running costs.  Power is getting expensive these days.

The number of people who use 16bits output has nothing to do with the ability of the software.

sorry i discuss the adobeworld, but i'm not nearly satisfied with this workflow.

Stating that's it's a shitty workflow is one thing.  Giving the appearance that the software is limited (in it's accuracy), to support your ideals of what is a better workflow is!  This is ML, not middle management marketing ;)

chmee

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 04:18:41 PM »
(btw resolve doesnt need that much hardware you expect - its even less than after effects to work flawlessly :) )
Quote
14bits --> 16bits, sure, the data has to be mapped which can lead to rounding errors
no, you just add 2 bits on the msb-side - the way, both cdng-converters work and made possible, to work with ml-raw files in resolve the last 5 weeks..

coming back to the primarly question -
resolve did it in the last update 9.15 - its reading 14bit dngs (from my point of view absolutely unnecessary fix - they should implement denoising, badpixel-operations and other things instead of implementing things, that community already solved)  adobeworld pretends it as picturesequence from dng's - dng is a adobe-invention and uses the acr-wrapper :) it's not native - or better, its wrong to call it workflow, regardless of 8 or 16bit :) adobe speedgrade - dng-support with 10,12 or 16bit files. Sony Vegas able to work with r3d, but not dng. avid xpress or media composer no dng-support.

and then? all other videoapps use the "till now" common bitdepths and videocodecs - cinemaDNG rarely supported
WHAT Programs are in our scope (in terms of cost)? nuke, scratch, mistika, pandora, lustre etc pp. ?

Davinci Resolve Lite is the only one, the independent scene is able to afford.. because its free.

fatpig

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2013, 06:57:59 PM »
I think Resolve is the best option out there if you are working with quality glass. :) Don't be fooled by using cheap lenses. Its where the magic lies, as debayering problems go.

hjfilmspeed

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2013, 07:29:10 AM »
I love resolve for its workflow and fun grading tools but even when im shooting with L Glass im not getting the same sharpness from resolve as i do with acr. There must be something wrong in my workflow or maybe its my video card or something. i need to upload some samples. uggg. im sure the support will continue to rise. cliphouse looked great but no windows =( yes i know about the hackentash. Loving all the teamwork from everyone here. just to think about 3 months or so ago i had given up on dslr video. now its like a whole new camera and beginning!

Shield

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 04:19:36 AM »
I agree with you hjfilm - I just can't get the "look" out of resolve that I can with Adobe After effects and the ACR.  For example, I can't use lens corrections in resolve, and I shoot quite a bit with the Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC; it vignettes a tad wide open.  I also just can't get the highlights and shadows to look as nice.  On the other hand, considering how much faster (and free) Resolve is I'm all for hoping it gets better.

Shield

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 04:22:21 AM »
dng is a adobe-invention and uses the acr-wrapper :) it's not native - or better, its wrong to call it workflow, regardless of 8 or 16bit :)

I sure as hell call ACR / AE "the workflow" when it can correct my lens profiles for vignetting and has the superior quality output.  To each their own.  IMO it's the "only" way to go - we're shooting raw for maximum quality; it's just not there YET with resolve.

mvejerslev

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2013, 06:12:22 AM »
>when it can correct my lens profiles for vignetting

Right. Once you have copied the correct EXIF data into your DNGs.
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chmee

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 12:23:37 PM »
@Shield there's a long way to go, to get "maximum quality". ironically mvejerslev hinted to one point, the correction just do his job (A) if there are metadata and (B) on the full picture - not on the crop 1:1 video (where we get the most quality;) ) - finally you're estimating the correction? So, in resolve you can correct the vignetting with a mask as well, estimated.. The main critics on other (professional&enthusiast) websites is the accuracy of the LUT, color matrices - nothing, ML can fulfill by now.

Do you own a gretagMacbeth colorcard?

In terms of speed ACR is no winner, in terms of "correcting dngs" ACR is way better than all other apps, but shoving sliders is not "maximum quality", but wrenching "filmlook" into it, completely subjective.. Resolve is no ideal tool as well - but discussing about "maximum quality" and "workflow meant as work efficiency" is kind of funny..

IF adobeworld and workflow, so give speedgrade a try. (then you will see, we're far from being done!)

Shield

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 07:01:51 AM »
>when it can correct my lens profiles for vignetting

Right. Once you have copied the correct EXIF data into your DNGs.

Just select a Canon lens; even if it's another brand.  Goodbye vignette.

Shield

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 07:04:28 AM »
@Shield there's a long way to go, to get "maximum quality". ironically mvejerslev hinted to one point, the correction just do his job (A) if there are metadata and (B) on the full picture - not on the crop 1:1 video (where we get the most quality;) ) - finally you're estimating the correction? So, in resolve you can correct the vignetting with a mask as well, estimated.. The main critics on other (professional&enthusiast) websites is the accuracy of the LUT, color matrices - nothing, ML can fulfill by now.

Do you own a gretagMacbeth colorcard?

In terms of speed ACR is no winner, in terms of "correcting dngs" ACR is way better than all other apps, but shoving sliders is not "maximum quality", but wrenching "filmlook" into it, completely subjective.. Resolve is no ideal tool as well - but discussing about "maximum quality" is kind of funny..

IF adobeworld and workflow, so give speedgrade a try. (then you will see, we're far from being done!)

I don't see how a mask is going to look right unless you're shooting a scene where the background or camera do not move.  Try panning from a bright area to a darker one and see how your mask holds up - I'll stick with AE for now...:)

Shield

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 07:26:28 AM »
Also, I used to use a grey card; don't really need to anymore with raw.

I guess I was just put off by your "you can't even call AE/ACR a workflow" when right now IMO it's the ONLY workflow you need.  Raw2dng - Adobe AE, output.

I pulled down Speedgrade CC and I don't get a preview with 14 bit DNG files.  I'm sure if you converted it to another format it'd be fine - but that certainly takes the "speed" out of "speedgrade".  :)

mageye

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2013, 01:03:57 PM »
Also, I used to use a grey card; don't really need to anymore with raw.

I guess I was just put off by your "you can't even call AE/ACR a workflow" when right now IMO it's the ONLY workflow you need.  Raw2dng - Adobe AE, output.

I pulled down Speedgrade CC and I don't get a preview with 14 bit DNG files.  I'm sure if you converted it to another format it'd be fine - but that certainly takes the "speed" out of "speedgrade".  :)

Can I just ask if why you were using a grey card? For exposure right? because we know that a white card is for white balance and also why has RAW eliminated the need to not get correct exposure and white balance?

I guess you are saying that you can correct it in post now whereas before with h264 it was 'baked in'. That is true

My opinion is that the reason we would use a white balance card in the first place has not been eliminated at all with RAW. After all we still need a good ('accurate') exposure and white balance reference. Would we not?
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vroem

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2013, 12:55:32 AM »
OK, on topic guys! Let's make a list of supported apps. I started here:
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/RAW_Video#Programs_with_ML_raw_file_support
Someone should add some windows and linux apps.

chmee

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2013, 09:38:15 AM »
?sorry?

(1) i thought, its about videoapps - not converters?
(2) raw2cdng - existent as long as rawmagic (cdng-converter for win-systems)


ted ramasola

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2013, 09:45:40 AM »
for windows.

RAW2CDNG   for windows  GUI  Cinema DNG converter

RAWanizer  for windows  GUI DNG coverter and proxies
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renkin

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2013, 04:56:16 PM »
I use raw2dng > nuke import with the J-OPS gizmo, which lets you import raw dng to 8 or 16bits and color correct in a environment compatible with the raw bit depth.

You also get some import options just like Camera Raw : pre-debayer, colorspace and noise reduction control... Some of those are interesting to do in 16bits especially noise removal. You will have to remove vignette and lens distorsion manually though.

When you're done with color correcting export to dng 16bits and done.
I can't think of anything else that preserves the color.


RenatoPhoto

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Re: List of apps that support faw dng sequences or raw files natively
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2013, 06:54:50 PM »
Sony Vegas able to work with r3d, but not dng.

I import dng sequence directly into Vegas Pro 12 for a quick video test.  But for final video I use ACR to tiff to Vegas.
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