Author Topic: RAW POST WORKFLOW!  (Read 25029 times)

Veerle

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RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« on: July 12, 2013, 09:33:13 PM »
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Habitat

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2013, 10:30:43 PM »
Hi guys,

What kind of workflow are you using in post?
I'm on a iMac and use Rawmagic and after effects. But i'm curious about what else is out there.
Ive been trying to work with DaVinci Resolve but it just isn't what I'm looking for (as far as my knowledge of the software goes)...
When working with DaVinci I immediately start to miss all the options Camera Raw...

Is someone familiar with with both software who can convince me other wise? Because I read a lot of good things about DaVinci Resolve so I'm a bit confused right now...

- What workflow do you guys use?

A lot of people use the Adobe Camera Raw workflow. Why don't you just find some color grading tutorials ON DaVinci...it's a pro application - you can't just open it and start using it - invest some time in learning what does what etc - there is a reason why the pros use it. If not just use something simple.

sarotaz

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 10:50:27 PM »
A lot of people use the Adobe Camera Raw workflow. Why don't you just find some color grading tutorials ON DaVinci...it's a pro application - you can't just open it and start using it - invest some time in learning what does what etc - there is a reason why the pros use it. If not just use something simple.

i use resolve but we 60d owners have big problem in conversion from dng 14 bit. Convert and reconvert and reconvert again is very frustrating. I'm still waiting a cinema dng converter able to remove badpixel.
I love Resolve, it is professional e very user friendly and the time spent in learning is plenty rewarded.

spider

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 10:59:55 PM »
1.Convert RAW with RAW2DNG
2.Quick look with FastStone Imageviewer
3. Delete bad footage
4. Remove the pink dots from 650D with forgool's tool
5. Import the dng into Lightroom and grading the footage
6. Jpeg Export Quality 95
7. Open series of Images in Lightworks
8. Cutting and export

or

5. Import the dng into Lighroom just doing the wb and slightly corrections
6. tiff export
7. Import into Davinci Resolve
8. Grading, cutting and export

But on my Hardware (Intel e8400, gtx260)  the first way is much faster.

sarotaz

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 11:17:54 PM »
1.Convert RAW with RAW2DNG
2.Quick look with FastStone Imageviewer
3. Delete bad footage
4. Remove the pink dots from 650D with forgool's tool
5. Import the dng into Lightroom and grading the footage
6. Jpeg Export Quality 95
7. Open series of Images in Lightworks
8. Cutting and export

or

5. Import the dng into Lighroom just doing the wb and slightly corrections
6. tiff export
7. Import into Davinci Resolve
8. Grading, cutting and export

But on my Hardware (Intel e8400, gtx260)  the first way is much faster.

Second workflow is more linear in my opinion.
Converting in jpeg you lose 14 bit of dynamic range becouse jpeg is only 8 bit.

spider

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 11:45:11 PM »
But after grading in Lightroom I do not need 14bit any more, or?

sarotaz

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 11:56:43 PM »
But after grading in Lightroom I do not need 14bit any more, or?

yes it's right but if you export in h264, it's better convert a uncompressed material than reconvert again a lossy format (jpeg).

spider

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2013, 12:10:49 AM »
I think nobody is be able to see the difference.

Veerle

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2013, 12:26:52 AM »
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bnvm

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2013, 12:33:24 AM »
I always color grade using Nuke but sometimes I will use after effects for converting the dng's to another format for importing into Nuke or I just use nuke for the whole thing.

I use AE for converting because sometimes it can give me a result with less color noise in dark areas. I only ever change the white balance using the camera raw since any other change can cause flickering.

Nuke can read dng's directly if you install the free j_ops plugin. The nice thing about using this plugin is that it gives you alot more control over the raw->rgb conversion. For example, it has 5 different debayering modes and pre-debayering noise removal that have given me higher quality results compared to Adobe Camera Raw.

spider

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2013, 12:40:13 AM »
How much sharpness do you guys add (working with lightroom/ after effects/ photoshop/ bridge) ?
Do you just leave the standard: 25?
It depends on the image.
For 720p I use something around 30, Radius 0.6, Detail 40. You can find good values by pressing ALT and changing the values.


Danne

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2013, 02:21:34 AM »
1- I create proxies together with my dng-files with the raw2dng converter
2 - All my editing is done with the proxyfiles in premiere
3 - select my finished edited clip and via dynamic link I open up my footage in after effects. Finally I relink my files to the dng,s and apply my acr settings
4 - back to premiere and do my final export

ilia

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 04:12:36 AM »
raw2dng---After Effects (export ProRes 4444)---Final Cut Pro X

eyeland

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2013, 04:23:34 PM »
6. Jpeg Export Quality 95
Pretty sure that I read somewhere that Jpeg quality 95 is the same Jpeg Quality 100? (cf. the 12 steps of Jpeg quality in photoshop)
Daybreak broke me loose and brought me back...

spider

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2013, 04:56:36 PM »
I read it too but I do not know where.
Quality settings above 95 gives you bigger files but no better quality.

spider

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2013, 04:57:41 PM »
Please delete

legreve

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2013, 01:31:59 PM »
Why is no one just editing the native raw files? Just curious..........

You don't have to use the Ginger HDR plugin, you just need it to be in the system folder.

After that, just use the filters and corrections that Premiere and After Effects have. Easy as pie and no need for conversion / transcoding.

Danne

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2013, 02:06:47 PM »
System folder? No conversion? How do you mean?

legreve

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2013, 03:16:10 PM »
I simply downloaded the Ginger HDR plugin for Premiere Pro and After Effects.... then put the plugin in the folder it's supposed to be in.

After that, you can import the RAW files... not DNGs.... not prores....the RAW files, straight into a Premiere Pro or After Effects timeline.
AND... you don't even have to apply or use the Ginger HDR plugin, just use the color correction options you have in premiere and after effects.

And then export the finished file to what ever format you want.

Don't know why people are still fighitng these convert to this, export to that, make proxies.... and so on.

Just edit the native files......... :)  I mean, when editing photographs, which I do daily, I would never edit anything but raw. So why do it differently here?

Check out www.vimeo.com/groups/raw

The two movies Mother and The Machines Are Sleeping were made by editing the native raw files... I never saw a single DNG or anything else.

Danne

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2013, 03:58:27 PM »
Thought you imported the clips without the ginger plug-in.
SOme people like the debayering in acr which gives a more photographic clean look. It also gives you better control over highlight recovery. Other than that I think working with the raw directly works pretty ok

Proto

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2013, 04:00:53 AM »
I just used raw2dng to get the dng frames, then drag the image sequence into After Effects to export as a movie.

pascal

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2013, 10:48:54 AM »
My workflow with CS 5.5 bundle:

- "EyeFrame" batch convert all RAW clips
- import all DNG sequences in After Effects and fix exposure, blacks, highlights with ACR upon import (do not apply sharpening)
- export all DNG sequences as uncompressed AVI 4:4:4
- add AVI clips to Premiere and make the cut
- render the clipmix in Premiere
- import clipmix in After Effects
- add subtle warp stabilization if necessary to reduce hand shakes
- upscale video to 1080p if stabilized crop
- export with After Effects or Premiere with H264, AAC

It is pretty time consumptive and I seek for options to improve the flow.

ToniX

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2013, 01:20:26 PM »
anyone  tryed with open source sofware?
600D - EFs18-55 ISII

pinger007

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2013, 07:11:40 PM »
I batch convert the RAW files to dng sequences and DNxHD proxies with Rawanizer ver 0.5.5. The DNxHD proxies were used to edit the footage in Adobe Premiere CC. Once edited, the sequence is brought into Adobe After Effects CC via Dynamic Link and the proxies are replaced with the RAW dng sequences. I perform a first light color correction in ACR, and additional corrections are performed in AE.

Here's a recent interview done using this method.  I would have liked to have spent more time lighting the subject and doing a more selective grade, but the turnaround time was very short.  The workflow wasn't without hiccups here and there, but for the most part it's a straightforward process.

all you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you

_DK_

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2013, 08:26:28 PM »
Right now I use the Pink Dot remover (650d) then convert the .DNGs images to .jpeg and import the .jpegs into Sony Vegas as an image sequence with 24 fps. There I cut, edit and render it.

Update: I Just found out a way that is way better: and works really well :)

1: Convert the RAW Files with RAW2DNG
2: Apply Pink dot Remover (650d)
3: Convert the DNG Files to Adobe DNG using the free Adobe DNG Converter
4: Edit the files in Photoshop, (with the synchronize feature) and export as .JPEG
5: Cut and adjust a little further in Sony Vegas

And it looks like you can actually use the DNG files instead of .JPEGs but for saving disk space and importing time I stick with JPEG.


anyone  tryed with open source sofware?

Yes. I tried RAW Therapee, but it is crashing and lagging as hell. It was terrible. I can't recommend using it
EOS 650D, 17-50 2.8, Nifty Fifty, Tamron 70-300mm
Sorry if my English is a little bad as I am not a native speaker

Sthirasukha

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2013, 08:24:53 AM »
I tested 3 time the same Raw footage to Prores 422HQ with
1- AE (with ACR)
2- NukeX (with J_Ops_2.0v1)
3- Resolve 9 Lite
Result of render time:
40 min AE 
18 min NukeX (works the same with DNG or CinemaDNG)
2 min Resolve 9
I know quite well ACR (so I used quite a lot corrections), a bit less Nuke (I didn't use any any chromatic aberration) and I don't know much about Resolve for the moment and I didn't use (and see) any chromatic aberration or any recovery exposure (for the high lights for example) but used Black Magic LUT with some other few color correction.

I have to go deeper to the investigation because as you see, it might depend on the raw settings.

lokki19

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2013, 07:38:05 PM »
I tested 3 time the same Raw footage to Prores 422HQ with
1- AE (with ACR)
2- NukeX (with J_Ops_2.0v1)
3- Resolve 9 Lite
Result of render time:
40 min AE 
18 min NukeX (works the same with DNG or CinemaDNG)
2 min Resolve 9
I know quite well ACR (so I used quite a lot corrections), a bit less Nuke (I didn't use any any chromatic aberration) and I don't know much about Resolve for the moment and I didn't use (and see) any chromatic aberration or any recovery exposure (for the high lights for example) but used Black Magic LUT with some other few color correction.

I have to go deeper to the investigation because as you see, it might depend on the raw settings.

Take your AE project and dump it in Media Encoder to render out your ProRes, cuts the time in half if not more.

div4o

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advance I must admit that I do myself extremely difficult with the workflow for RAW edit. This is partly due to the lack of experience with raw footage and probably also the missunderstanding of it: (So have some leniency for the suggestions and the video here :)))

with the attempt, I had three aims:

1 find a workflow that goes directly and only with the DNG from the cam and consumed as minimal space.
2 a workflow that is not tied to Resolve
3 a workflow that I can do the edit in PP


Workflow 01:
ML RAW - DNG - Lightroom - After Effects - (premiere - no proxy)

If you are familiar with Lightroom, you can very quickly create some excellent look here. The nice thing, with a click, the metadata are stored and you can add the material already in AE and edit Premiere or give further.

Advantage: fast and space-saving
Disadvantage: it is the reverse "normal workflow," because it's almost pointless to make color correction and color grading, without having it created a Raw cut.

Workflow 02:
ML RAW - DNG - After Effects (premiere - no proxy)

It is a step less than the above but in the end the same work and is more like a video workflow.

Advantage: a little faster
Disadvantage: the adobe dynamic link is useless here, because Premiere can not deal with the DNGs
Edit: You can leave the After Effects composition in 8bit. so the direct link will work again but for me it makes no sense to film 14-bit RAW and then edit into an 8-bit space.

Workflow 03 (optional):
ML RAW - DNG - Resolve - Proxies - Premiere - XML - Resolve

Actually, the best workflow of all. This will work out pretty well, but you have to really know what you're doing here.

Advantage: it is the "right" way...
Disadvantages: ... but only if you can

if you have any suggestions, bring it on

Redrocks

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Workflow 03 (optional):
ML RAW - DNG - Resolve - Proxies - Premiere - XML - Resolve

Actually, the best workflow of all. The will work out pretty well, but you have to really know what you're doing here.

Advantage: it is the "right" way...
Disadvantages: ... but only if you can


Pretty much the method  I prefer, but yes Resolve is a minefield. Colour Grading Central and AETUTS have lots of tutorials.

div4o

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Pretty much the method  I prefer, but yes Resolve is a minefield. Colour Grading Central and AETUTS have lots of tutorials.
treu and thx for the two tips :)

mdfaisal

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2013, 07:09:10 PM »


Workflow 03 (optional):
ML RAW - DNG - Resolve - Proxies - Premiere - XML - Resolve

I hope theres a video tutorial for this workflow ::)

MortenSJ

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2013, 08:51:42 PM »
I hope theres a video tutorial for this workflow ::)

Here you go -

mdfaisal

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2013, 05:19:35 AM »

reddeercity

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Re: RAW POST WORKFLOW!
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2013, 04:11:35 AM »
Hi all  :)
looking to to get you DNG's to ProRes or DNxHD Quickly

I came a cross a transcoder,from DNG's & or Cinema DNG
on Windows Platform, called "CINEMARTIN CINEC"
links >http://www.cinemartin.com/cinec/#versions
you can take you dng's in & convert to ProRes 4444, DNxHD, convert colormatix (space) etc... on the pc  ;D
But you need the gold version to do this  :(  (399.00 EU dollars)
Bright side ;D there have a 35 Day free trial download unrestricted.

there is also a free Version that i use for h264 to ProRes on the PC  ;D