Author Topic: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)  (Read 225544 times)

Peter1546

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2013, 01:57:24 AM »
does it mean we might be able to get 720p continuous like the 650d? that wouldnt be bad..

But also not good as i hoped.. so if it's really that the 70D only records in 720p i will get the 650D because the new features are not 500€ worth.

globalphotobank

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2013, 04:24:53 PM »
On a Trancend 300x class 10 sdhc 1 32 gig card I can shoot at least 10 shots on continuous burst, probably more ;) Im going to get a 95mbs 16 gig class 10 card and try

Chucho

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2013, 05:57:51 PM »
On a Trancend 300x class 10 sdhc 1 32 gig card I can shoot at least 10 shots on continuous burst, probably more ;) Im going to get a 95mbs 16 gig class 10 card and try

I have an extreme pro shdc @ 95mb/s and getting the same results as you.

Yuppa

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2013, 06:03:31 PM »
The ergonomics ALONE are worth $500 bucks to me (I can't STAND the Rebel bodies).  Most people (non-pros) hold on to bodies for 4 to 5 YEARS, so:

Let's do 4 years:

4 x 365 / $500 = that’s about 34 cents a day not to have my hand ache like HELL!

Add in all the other stuff (and I’m coming from the 60D, so ergo is off the table): time code, 98% viewfinder, better low light ISO performance, Dig!c 5+, 20.2 megapixels, 7D AF (19 points), 3-10x digital zoom, dual pixel AF, multi-exposure mode, video/photo switch, continuous mode dial rotation, ALL-I h.264, AF micro adjustment, and Wi-Fi (and remote capture via app) and it's STILL worth the extra to me.

“I don’t want…” or “I don’t care about…” does NOT equal “…not worth it.”

Plus, it’s a known FACT you need around 100 MB/s (like the 5DM3) to record* full HD RAW.  Why anyone would think the 70D would pull that off when the 6D can’t is beyond me.

*continous
When you care more about capturing DATA, as opposed to WONDERMENT, you've lost your creative SOUL.

Smarty Pants

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2013, 09:43:57 PM »
btw microadjustment is only active when you use quick shot in liveview ie completely useless.

I so hope the ML guys can sort the shitty canon firmware and give the features a camera of this cost should have as standard.

all-i is 11.2Mb/s and you can take approx. 1 raw shot per second whilst recording so it'll do at least 35Mb/s - i suspect canon cheaped out with the sd card chip again....no chance of 1080 RAW but 720 should be ok

If you want me to dump any code just let me know

pacodecalli

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2013, 04:07:22 PM »
Hi When will be come to this software for Canon 70D ?

animanus

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2013, 07:07:50 PM »
seems like someones already using it..?


pacodecalli

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2013, 11:42:49 AM »
Where is link ?

animanus

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2013, 01:37:29 PM »
sorry please ignore, its a total scam, the video is from a FS700

pacodecalli

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2013, 01:51:58 PM »
i think so..

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2013, 10:49:01 AM »
70D need DUAL ISO  :(...

See also here: http://www.sensorgen.info/CanonEOS_70D.html

Being the same generation, the 70d's sensor doesn't gain much over the 60d etc :-\

Empty buffer speed seems to be about 2fps which probably means 45MB/s like all the other recent Canon SD-card cameras. This means it's too slow for continuous uncropped raw.

I wonder if this is "broken by design" and Canon only wants to have the 5d3 fast buffer clear & raw capability, of course they know about ml and realized 5d3 sales have gone up recently with ml raw video... it cannot be that hard to build in a faster sd controller, can it?

Audionut

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2013, 11:22:14 AM »
See also here: http://www.sensorgen.info/CanonEOS_70D.html

Being the same generation, the 70d's sensor doesn't gain much over the 60d etc :-\

Indeed.  It would be nice if Canon moved to an ISOless sensor.

it cannot be that hard to build in a faster sd controller, can it?

It would be simple cost vs benefit analysis I assume.  While they might only save 10c per unit vs a faster controller, 10c per unit x number of units produced becomes a significant factor.  To them anyway, we just want faster controllers in our cameras  :D

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2013, 08:23:59 PM »
It would be simple cost vs benefit analysis I assume.  While they might only save 10c per unit vs a faster controller, 10c per unit x number of units produced becomes a significant factor.  To them anyway, we just want faster controllers in our cameras  :D

Well, we'll never know what's penny pinching and whats feature marketing - but cutting corners like this leaves a bad aftertaste. I could go along with it in a Rebel-class camera, but hardly in a €1500+ 6d. When the 5d3 was released with the crippled sd slot it was rumored to be an overlooked design flaw - but then they did it again (6d) and again (70d).

Imho this upselling strategy for better video (1dx->1dc, 6d->5d3) will prove to be short-sighted of Canon, but most of all I'm disappointed because this way continuous raw video and more widespread ml adoption will be hindered by a $10ct component :-\

Smarty Pants

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2013, 01:38:41 AM »
so clean hdmi output would be the best compromise

apple gets away with it and the zombies love it so all companies are trying it to certain degrees, cripple and over charge then change formats and connectors slightly to force repurchase. used to be just sony...

i do wonder why canon don't seem to bother with market research though - imagine the camera range if they even just bothered to read this forum

Smarty Pants

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2013, 01:46:21 AM »
btw canon just told me that teh reason the screen switches off when you plugin the usb audio cable is because users want longer battery life and disabling the screen saves power....yeh it also prevents headphone monitoring...my response was i'd happily carry another battery but a compromise would be an on/off in frmware

considering the d7100 has a dedicated socket the least they could do is give us the option of buying a £3 phono to 3.5mm socket adaptor and getting decent audio.

the alternative is to carry a 7" hdmi screen and losing the touch functions....and a rig to hold it

a samsung camera running android with an EF fitting will change all of this old school crap.

carlosmeldano

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2013, 12:43:12 PM »
raw is much better in image quality because of the 14 bit color depth, instead of the 8 bit color depth of H264 encoding.
raw needs that high data throughput because of the uncompressed stream.

no need to have 100MB/sec writing if the stream is still 14 bit color depth but compressed.

let ML guys to implement a compression that will reduce the stream bandwidth under 40MB/sec, and then, all SD card cameras will be capable of recording full hd 14 bit stream.

that's all.

animanus

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2013, 12:49:23 PM »
uhh thats all? make a whole new compression format that beats all the others that already exist?!

carlosmeldano

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2013, 09:11:48 AM »
uhh thats all? make a whole new compression format that beats all the others that already exist?!

it's not about creating a new compression format but implementing one from the existing that keeps the 14-bit color depth. e.g. lzw or one of its variant can be used that's a lossless compression and reduce the stream to half size. that would double the bandwidth used... and we're only talking about a simple compression.

Rewind

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2013, 10:43:40 AM »
Quote
let ML guys to implement a compression that will reduce the stream bandwidth
Better let yourself think just a little, why such a brilliant idea hasn't implemented yet )

carlosmeldano

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2013, 11:08:53 AM »
Better let yourself think just a little, why such a brilliant idea hasn't implemented yet )

tell me why, because i only see 2 reasons that'd block this implementation: human or sw/hw resource problem.

which one?

Rewind

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2013, 11:28:33 AM »
tell me why, because i only see 2 reasons that'd block this implementation: human or sw/hw resource problem.

which one?

HW of course. DIGIC is not an i7 you know

carlosmeldano

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2013, 11:42:33 AM »
HW of course. DIGIC is not an i7 you know

no kidding? ;) i don't know what it's capable of, but they solved lots of algorithms, I don't see a reason not being able to implement it. if they can read and manipulate the stream and having basic mathematical and bitwise operations and some spare memory space to use, the only thing that'd prevent the implementation is the processing speed.

but if you're sure, i believe you as i'm not familiar with digic 5 development.

Rewind

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2013, 12:03:11 PM »
Quote
any form of compression will require CPU cycles and unfortunately, the developers have stated that there are none to spare while copying the raw files from memory to card

Also, read this:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7095.msg59225#msg59225
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7447.msg63508#msg63508

carlosmeldano

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2013, 12:18:06 PM »
I see, it's a pity.

But, we'll see. Those cameras are DIGIC 4 based, but DIGIC 5, and especially DIGIC 5+ are much stronger while need to write the same amount of data.

Smarty Pants

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Re: Canon EOS 70D (RAW possibility)
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2013, 01:36:00 AM »
even if we'll never write 14bit 1080p would there be any possibility of intercepting the data between the sensor and the all-i compressor? if so then could plugins or presets be set to run? then let the camera down sample to 8 bit using the custom parameters and write as normal