White Balance Shift When Converting Image Sequence to ProRes?

[epyonxero]

Ive been playing with the raw conversion workflow of  ( ACR ---->Save as TIFF or PSD ---->Open Image Sequence in PS -----> Render Video ProRes 422) and im noticing an unwanted shift in the white balance of the image during the export to ProRes. Does anyone know what might be causing this?

Screen shot of a frame as seen after opening the image sequence:



Screen shot of final ProRes video:

[reddeercity]

You are changing the Color Space , Pro Res codec lives in the
rec709 color space or as we all know it as HD 
So you are going from raw RGB 444 0-255 full range to 10 bit 422 16-235
I would do more work in PS & watch the wave monitor to contain
Your image in to legal colors for video 

[epyonxero]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the tip, Im new to video.

[Doyle4]

If you have Adobe After Effects, just make a dng image sequence, works great for me

[Hazer]

As noted above, it's a color space issue and Quicktime has trouble with this type of conversion.  When you export via Photoshop, you're using Quicktime, and this is why you see the shift.  This issue also affects ffmpeg, an open source transcoder which many people on the forum use to make movies from image sequences.  I looked into this, and there is plenty of discussion on the ffmpeg forums about ProRes, and the issue remains unresolved.

The good news is that you can avoid the problem if you use FCP X or Motion to convert your image sequences.  With either of these, the resulting movie will look identical to your .tif source images.  It's easiest in Motion, since Motion natively supports image sequences -- you simply select all your files and drag them into the layers palette.  Motion will automatically display them as a movie, and not as hundreds of separate files.  You can then export as you please.  Just make sure to set up the project with the appropriate resolution, frame rate, and number of frames when you create it.  Image sequences are such a basic interchange format in film production, it's baffling to me that neither FCP 7 or FCP X has this capability.

I haven't tested After Effects for color shift, but that may also be an option.  Others with more Adobe app experience can chime in on that one.

[ilia]

Thanks for the tip Hazer. Was having trouble with gamma shift exporting from QT7. With Motion 5 the ProRes 422HQ is identical to the Tiff files.  Thanks again!

[Audionut]

What's quicktime (an Apple product), got to do with photoshop (and Adobe product)?

With Adobe Camera Raw, set it's output color space to sRGB (same primaries as Rec.709).  This won't map to 16-235.

If you're importing from ACR directly into photoshop, use the prophoto color space in ACR (maintain the most detail), and use photoshop to convert the color space directly to HDTV (Rec.709) before export.  Note:  You can also map to 16-235 with color space conversion in photoshop.

[deleted.account]

You don't want to map to 16-235 in RGB has the mapping is 0-255 RGB to 16-235 YCC and that's handled by the encoder, default will be that mapping.

OP what are you viewing your final movie in and extracting images from and what resolution? Resolution can affect whether BT601 or BT709 is assumed and used when encoding. If you don't specify primaries and luma coeffs it will pick them based on resolution.

What version of Photoshop and ACR is it properly color managed? Likewise what version of QT and OS? To me it looks like typical QT gamma shift with pre Mountain Lion OS and earlier version of QT plus wrong color matrix. Also as ACR is involved maybe it Prophoto assumed rec709.

**EDIT** Oops looks like this has been said already.:-)

I actually thought Prores was BT 601 not BT Rec709 with regard to luma coeffs?

[Hazer]

What's quicktime (an Apple product), got to do with photoshop (and Adobe product)?

He indicated he was choosing the "render video" option in Photoshop.  When I do that, I only have three options:  DPX, H264, and "Quicktime".  The "Quicktime" option lists a few of the usual suspects:  Animation, JPEG 2000, and Uncompressed.  They all introduce color shifts.

I'll be the first to admit that the details of YUV/RGB conversion are above my pay grade, so there may be a way to make these other options workable.  But from a simple user perspective, Motion and FCP X conversions work out of the box for me.

[Audionut]

He indicated he was choosing the "render video" option in Photoshop.  When I do that, I only have three options:  DPX, H264, and "Quicktime".  The "Quicktime" option lists a few of the usual suspects:  Animation, JPEG 2000, and Uncompressed.  They all introduce color shifts.

My apologies.  I've haven't made my way to video in PS yet.  I was wondering how on earth you got quicktime from the OP's posts

Quicktime, yuck!  The fact that it's color shifting on export to uncompressed just goes to show how yuck it is 
Were you converting your image sequence to a suitable color space before render?

I'll have to get round to looking at video in PS, sooner rather then later.

[budafilms]

As noted above, it's a color space issue and Quicktime has trouble with this type of conversion.  When you export via Photoshop, you're using Quicktime, and this is why you see the shift.  This issue also affects ffmpeg, an open source transcoder which many people on the forum use to make movies from image sequences.  I looked into this, and there is plenty of discussion on the ffmpeg forums about ProRes, and the issue remains unresolved.

The good news is that you can avoid the problem if you use FCP X or Motion to convert your image sequences.  With either of these, the resulting movie will look identical to your .tif source images.  It's easiest in Motion, since Motion natively supports image sequences -- you simply select all your files and drag them into the layers palette.  Motion will automatically display them as a movie, and not as hundreds of separate files.  You can then export as you please.  Just make sure to set up the project with the appropriate resolution, frame rate, and number of frames when you create it.  Image sequences are such a basic interchange format in film production, it's baffling to me that neither FCP 7 or FCP X has this capability.

I haven't tested After Effects for color shift, but that may also be an option.  Others with more Adobe app experience can chime in on that one.

Can you explain how to use Motion, exactly if you can, strp by step, to get video from Tiff or Raw? maybe I can create a Final Cut plug in from Motion to get directoy the video to edit. Thanks and please, leavme a message to return here!

[ilia]

Create Motion project, Preset 1080/720?  Frame Rate: 23.98  Duration: make sure longer then sequence.  Then import Tiffs in layer window and check as image sequence. Export to ProRes 422HQ.

[reddeercity]

Hello all 

I been reading that people are having issues with gamma shift.
Like i said in my early post, i use Photoshop to White Balance & basic Color Correction.
I built a L.U.T. in photoshop using the "Technicolor CineStyle".
I Took a Jpeg Photo with picture style "Technicolor CineStyle", then a Raw photo
adjusted it then save the setting as *.xmp that can be recalled any time.
apply that LUT ,Great starting point for grading then export 
Make sure to maintain the dpi @240  16 bit Tiff to keep the same color space.
If you import you Raw-DNG's to After Effects then render out to ProRes 4444
AE will only see the image @ 72 dpi not 240 dpi.

So you are no longer in Print Density
I think that is were the problems lies 
I do believe that all conversion from a Image sequence to Video File
Suffer from this, QT 7, MPEG Streamclip etc...
A Tiff Image will retain that Print Density

Then import the Tiff image sequence to AE export to ProRes 4444 with Trillion Plus ,option to
retain the16 bit Color space, leave the Color space  option off you will not get any gamma shift
that i can see.
Update:
I Miss inform you all on the Color Space option in AE.
i been play around with color spaces input & output.
There is 2 setting you need to work with,
First interpret Footage click on Tiff image that you imported,
Interpret footage > Main... >  in that window set your Frame rate @ 24p or 25p
Click on Color Management ,
under profiles , Assign Profiles & check the "Show all Available Profiles"
and you will get a full list of profiles that you can remap the Color Space to what you like.

I have been using the " Panavision Genesis Tungsten Log " Color profile.
interpret As linear Light Box set to "on for 32 bpc"

#2 set your output Color Space or your Working Color space, open Project Setting .
i have a AJA Kona LHi capture card & i set it to display 1080p Full Range Color,
so i can adjust the color space for Editing & grading etc...
here i Set the color settings .
Bit Depth to 32 Bit per channel (Float)
Working Space: i Use Camera RGB Profile.
check off "Blend Colors using 1.0 Gamma", "Match Legacy AE QT  Gamma Adjustments",
& "Compensate for Scene-referred Profiles"
do any Exposure Adjustment & render out as a ProRes 4444

ProRes will put it in a HD (rec 709) color space.
The bit rate for 4444 is really not that much more of a load on you Systems then 422HQ

I know this takes a little time    but, the  results are will worth the effects

I'm in the Adobe Creative Cloud so i have access to all there latest software.
i have not tried this in Apple Motion but i would assume that it would suffer the same fate
as it uses QT.

P.S.
i'll post a sample of this work flow Very soon
Link to PanaLog or "Panavision Genesis Tungsten Log"
http://www.panavision.com/sites/default/files/Panalog%20Explained.pdf

[reddeercity]

 
Sample of the workflow i posted about with the Panalog or Panavision Genesis Tungsten Log  color space