Author Topic: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters  (Read 37922 times)

kgv5

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I have bought a VAF-6D.

These are my very first tests.

http://youtu.be/XcBtWrkjX90
http://youtu.be/Id8Tb6nfdJM

Shot with Tokina 11-16mm.

Generally I am very satisfied with the purchase, there is a huge improvement in 1080 picture quality (hard to see with YT compression), h264 and raw and I could go further with sharpening without visible picture artifacts.

I am gonna make some more tests soon, if you have any questions or "test requests" - go ahead.
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fotojohni

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 09:54:48 PM »
Wow.  Even with a super wide it cuts it down dramatically.  Where in Germany?

kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 10:09:52 PM »
I didn't notice any problems with 15 and 16mm. Sharpness in the corners is quite the same like without the filter.
I imported it from the US.
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xNiNELiVES

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 01:51:01 AM »
I didn't notice any problems with 15 and 16mm. Sharpness in the corners is quite the same like without the filter.
I imported it from the US.

How do you upscale your footage?

kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 11:01:39 AM »
Unfortunatelly I don't use any advanced method for now, in AE just set scale to say 107,5% (for 1792x752 footage). As far as I know it is not very efficient way. Have to search the forum, I've seen some topics about upscaling.
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xNiNELiVES

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2013, 11:24:24 PM »
Unfortunatelly I don't use any advanced method for now, in AE just set scale to say 107,5% (for 1792x752 footage). As far as I know it is not very efficient way. Have to search the forum, I've seen some topics about upscaling.

There is software such as blow up or instant hd but I haven't been able to find ways to batch process footage to fit with my workflow.

Edit: After a quick google I found out that instant hd is fine because it's meant to upscale video. Blow up is apparently quite good (from the users here) but it is meant for photos. So you have to do individual photos first then compile them into a video...

kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 12:20:14 PM »
Guys

I was supposed to make a proper comparison video VAF/no VAF but because of my work totally have no time.
Instead of this for now here you have some raw samples.
Two folders: VAF ON and VAF OFF. You can see for yourself, 2x100 DNG's straight out of the camera.


Shot with Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 - @16mm, f10, 1808x756. Newest ML build [6D] RawtypeTEST.
There is a little difference in exposure - it is because the second time sun was more covered by the clouds, after shooting without VAF I had to go home and install the VAF, took couple of minutes and I didn't want to change any camera settings.

The footage contains some bricks, some leaves, some power lines.

I will make more in the next days, depends on my other duties.
So analyze this by yourself.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hdzkogrxumppnx0/YwX3ZEc5c9
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noisyboy

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 09:32:35 PM »
Wow - dude this is amazing! Thank you so much for doing this! What a difference it makes - especially to the power cables!

At LAST I have justification to buy it :) This will turn the 6D into a BEAST!
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 10:12:23 PM »
Yeah, besides moire and aliasing the most of the color artifacts are gone with the filter, that really amazed me, I didn't expect this :)
I am really happy with the purchase :)
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noisyboy

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 08:37:09 PM »
Did my own comparison with some crops and uploaded to Vimeo so the quality should be better for observing the difference! Cheers again for this dude! Totally gonna be my next purchase :)

Sorry if it all happens a bit quick in the comparison video! The clips were't that long. I recommend making friends with the pause button ;)

The only adjustments I made in ACR as a half stop exposure adjustment and added a tiny bit of sharping to the footage that had the filter on to compensate the slight softness introduced by the filter. I personally think it did a great job and by adding the little bit of sharpening you'd never know that the filter had introduced sharpening in the first place :)

I think an interesting observation from my end is how forgiving a bit of compression can be on aliasing. In After Effects, the aliasing on the power cables is absolutely horrific on the footage without the filter yet once it's gone to x.264 and then through vimeo's compression it kind of gets smoothed out a bit.

Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

noisyboy

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 08:41:58 PM »
Whoops - wrong frame rate... Will re-upload. You get the idea still

Sorted  8)
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 09:49:18 PM »
Great, thanks for this :)

Tomorrow I will try to upload some more footage.
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noisyboy

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 12:14:38 AM »
Amazing :) Can't thank you enough dude... It's a shame Mosaic Engineering didn't provide me with some decent comparisons after the multiple requests I made as I would already own one by now judging by the results. They clearly aren't that desperate to shift them ;)
Lynne, some of these people have come from Stoke!

DerekDock

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 12:51:09 AM »
Good stuff guys. When I have a little extra cash I think I'm going to have to spring for one. Didn't realize how easy they are to take in and out.

kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 11:11:15 AM »
I have posted another clips (all 1808x756, newest build [6D]NewRecOpt )

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hdzkogrxumppnx0/YwX3ZEc5c9

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kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2013, 11:37:40 PM »
If somebody would like to see how the 6D with VAF installed performs in some short lake footage.

http://youtu.be/-UB4Ja3JjX4

EDIT: if you like I can post couple of original DNG's so you can see it without any compression.
IMO picture quality is absolutely brilliant.



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kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2013, 08:06:36 PM »
Ok, now I have 5d3 so i can make some comparisons.

I compared 2 frames, 5D3's 1920x1080p and 6D's 1808x756. Quality of anti-aliasing is the same.
When zoomed to 200 or 400% seems, that 6D even with lower resolution have slightly more details and is a little bit sharper.
See for yourself if you want, i posted 2 original dngs, pay attention to roof and windows of the bricked building.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s4e9arze349c037/u4HEEQpZHr
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xNiNELiVES

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2013, 10:50:58 PM »
Ok, now I have 5d3 so i can make some comparisons.

I compared 2 frames, 5D3's 1920x1080p and 6D's 1808x756. Quality of anti-aliasing is the same.
When zoomed to 200 or 400% seems, that 6D even with lower resolution have slightly more details and is a little bit sharper.
See for yourself if you want, i posted 2 original dngs, pay attention to roof and windows of the bricked building.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s4e9arze349c037/u4HEEQpZHr

Can you upscale the 6D's using instant HD and then upload the frame to see the difference once upscaled.

xNiNELiVES

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2013, 10:53:24 PM »
Well they do look VERY similar. Very nice! So do you reckon that the VAF makes all the difference? I just don't want to have to remove that thing every time I want to take a photo...

kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2013, 11:05:58 PM »
I just don't want to have to remove that thing every time I want to take a photo...

Yeah, that is a drawback. But for shooting video this filter is a must have IMO. 

Can you upscale the 6D's using instant HD and then upload the frame to see the difference once upscaled.

Yeah, normally I do that but in this case I wanted to post an original file.
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Andy600

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2013, 11:07:01 PM »
I dunno, there is something I really don't like about VAF's. They never completely eliminate aliasing and moire and can make the image look either soft or a bit fuzzy. I would sooner invest in a really wide lens and shoot at the same resolution in crop mode with no (or very little) aliasing and moire. A 6d with a Tokina 11-16 will still give you a nice 35mm FOV in crop mode. Plus I'm with xNiNELiVES on what he says regarding shooting stills. As you have both I would be interested to see an A/B at similar focal lengths if you have a 35mm lens to hand.
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kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2013, 11:17:30 PM »
I dunno, there is something I really don't like about VAF's. look either soft or a bit fuzzy.

Well, in fact it looks the same as 5D3 which is a little bit soft too. In 5D3 aliasing and moire isn't completely gone also.
I had 6D for about 4 months, with VAF the picture was the same (or maybe even little sharper) like now I have with 5d3.
I have many clips for comparisons from both cameras and with/without the VAF.

Crop mode is only an addition - because it is so hard to frame properly. About the pictures - yeah, i feel the same as you but I have bought the camera mainly for videos.
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asombrir

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2013, 06:05:51 PM »
I got my vaf-6D filter yesterday and love it! My wife has this striped jacket that drives the 6D crazy and I was impressed by the difference in performance with the filter in. I will try and load something on vimeo to show what I am talking about. Filming bricks now with no hesitance is also encouraging. I was just thrilled with the overall results. Going to be using it on a couple hired gigs this month so I will have some nice shots to share soon.

asombrir

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2013, 08:06:15 PM »
https://vimeo.com/71982935

That is my short video test of that jacket, with and without the filter.

IAmChris

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2014, 10:38:25 AM »
Hello folks,

sorry for opening that old threat again, but i'm currently using a 6D as well and the moire issues are horrible. It seems like that filter does a lot to solve that exact problem, but still kgv5 mentioned he's got a 5Dmk3, although the filter does a good job. My question is whether the 5dmk3 is worth the money when the filter works just fine.
Maybe kgv5 could give some insights about his thoughts on that particular topic, as he now is in the perfect position to summarize whether the 5dmk3 really is the better choice for video (especially raw) or if the 6D with the vaf filter would be totally ok?
I guess he wouldn't have bought the 5D then?

cheers!

Malcolm Debono

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2014, 12:51:13 PM »
Hello folks,

sorry for opening that old threat again, but i'm currently using a 6D as well and the moire issues are horrible. It seems like that filter does a lot to solve that exact problem, but still kgv5 mentioned he's got a 5Dmk3, although the filter does a good job. My question is whether the 5dmk3 is worth the money when the filter works just fine.
Maybe kgv5 could give some insights about his thoughts on that particular topic, as he now is in the perfect position to summarize whether the 5dmk3 really is the better choice for video (especially raw) or if the 6D with the vaf filter would be totally ok?
I guess he wouldn't have bought the 5D then?

cheers!

For raw video, the 5D3 is definitely a better choice since it takes CF cards (unlike the 6D). For h264 video I would say the 6D with VAF filter is an excellent choice.
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kgv5

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2014, 08:56:04 PM »
The only reason for buying 5d3 over 6d (with VAF) was this damn CF slot (or rather limited writing speed of sd controller in 6d). 6d with VAF in terms of picture quality is the same or even little bit sharper than 5d3 but raw recording is the key here.
IAmChris, i think it is worth to add some more and buy 5d3. 6d is a great camera (with VAF is brilliant) but after all this raw recording breakthrough it suffers very badly because of slow writing speed.
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IAmChris

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2014, 09:53:34 AM »
thanks for your reply guys.
So it really is all about raw and the cf slot... alright - guess there is no choice then :-)

togg

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2014, 11:30:20 AM »
edit:cut

KelvinK

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2014, 09:40:20 AM »
Hello kgv5!
Bringing your thread to top again, since you looks like only one person worldwide (if didn't sell 6d yet) who owns both cameras and VAF :)
So the question is regarding to very short time raw recording. Write speed is obvious issue, but if you will compare like 5-10 seconds clips recorded with 6F+VAF (1792x) and 5d3 (1920x) would you say it worth go for 5d3? Do these false rainbow color patterns gone with 6DVAF in raw video? Ungraded flat shots arent that bad and rainbow isnt visible even w/o vaf sometimes, but after grading all those pattern pops up and ruin the look.

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Sidneywish

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Re: VAF-6D / Mosaic engineering VAF anti-aliasing/moire filters
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2014, 11:11:53 AM »
Not sure but the 5DIII cannot write to the SD card at the same speed the 6D can. Also to write continuous full raw HD, you either need very costly CF cards, or to lower down the resolution, bringing it into the 6D capabilities range.

Also 6D in low light is a plus. I'd say it's good when you shoot multiple cameras, to have both 5DIII and 6D. I don't think the VAF filter cost is a problem when you realise that CF cards to write full HD raw go from 350 to 750 bucks each depending on the speed.