Author Topic: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)  (Read 113789 times)

mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #150 on: October 20, 2013, 02:07:01 AM »
I am trying the old build from Lourenco for 5D3 of June 13th.  This one works with the buffer, it saves the frames before and after.  With a flash test there is not a lot of value of the other frames but it seems like it should record fine.
ok, sounds good as long as you have both to play with, and yeah, i had no use for the prebuffer and extra frames, the version I put together detects and records every stage of the bolt just perfect and that is all you get is just frames with action, not extra frames, it works 100% of the time. Only issue is which is not the modules problem, it is the cmos type cam and the rolling shutter, every so often we get split frames and there no fix for it cause it is how rolling shutter works, we can only minimize this by using the 15fps method I mentioned, and the other thing I did with my module is have it auto set all those setting when you load the module, with the regular bolt_rec you have manually change all that stuff.
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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #151 on: October 20, 2013, 04:34:44 AM »
I am interested in the buffer method to do a video of the bolt.  I dont like to have to load and old build to make this work.  do you have any idea how difficult would it be do get the raw_rec.mo working with the current autoexec.bin.  I hope that g3goo or Alex can do the last part to make this great module work with the current builds.
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #152 on: October 20, 2013, 05:09:28 AM »
I am interested in the buffer method to do a video of the bolt.  I dont like to have to load and old build to make this work.  do you have any idea how difficult would it be do get the raw_rec.mo working with the current autoexec.bin.  I hope that g3goo or Alex can do the last part to make this great module work with the current builds.
Nothing has to be done to raw_rec, the only one that can get bolt_rec to work with the current unified raw_rec is g3g00, he has to make changes to the bolt_rec module to work with the new raw_rec buffer system. I don't have any issues working the bolt trigger with the current unified compile autoexec.bin, the trouble is not in the ML src it is just a tweak to bolt_rec that needs to be done and of coarse I am sure he would need to tweak raw_rec as well to get them to operate with eachother. I don't see it happening though, he is very busy on MLV and other projects, I like the way it works though using bolr_raw which is working just fine with the latest unified or nightly if you can't compile yourself.

As for doing video, it really wont be very useful because of rolling shutter, during a long flash like in cloud lightning or something with many flashes, the rolling shutter will cause splitting, just really not going to be useful for video as I am sure you will see if you watch a video in the bolt trigger forum, you will see to many flashes in the sky that go on will show much cutting of the frames because of the rolling shutter, really best for single strikes like the shots I posted.

Best to use CCD cameras for video of lightning.
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #153 on: October 20, 2013, 05:53:38 AM »
Here are the raw_rec and bolt_rec with the pre buffer from back just before the new raw_rec buffer system was put in place, and it is compiled with the latest unified as of today 10/19/2013 so will work with up to date bins.

https://bitbucket.org/mk11174/magic-lantern/downloads/raw_rec_bolt_rec_prebuffer.zip

But again, this version does not work correctly with the sd card cams because of pre buffer add on, it works but does not save the most important part of a bolt, it is not a bug in the module, it is just the cams don't have enough buffer memory like the big guys do.

ABS trigger works best for flashes, REL is not the best choice for bolts, many false trigger with it. I always turn REL off and only use ABS.

Also, dont have any other Raw_REC module loaded at same time, will conflict. This raw_rec is much older then current up to date but its the latest that works with bolt trigger with the pre buffer option.

If not interested in pre buffer then best to get my combined version bolt_raw.
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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #154 on: October 20, 2013, 02:02:10 PM »
Yes that worked with current binaries.
I tested the pre-buffer and I cannot get good control of the pre and post frames.  I want to capture a few frames before and a few after my get mixed results and it seems that the controls dont really do what they are suppose to do. 

I played with the Post-bolt frame count and it seems that no matter what value I set, It always skip some frames either at the pre bolt or post bolt.   I am testing this by swinging my camera toward a light and then watching the video.  I hardly ever get a split frame (on 5D3) but I do always get a skip frame.  Any ideas why this is happening?

Could the frame skipping be improved with more recent raw_rec, if g3g00 fixes it?

Update:  Seem that I get better results if I set Post Bolt to 50 frames.  Less frame skipping, also I tested with Memory hacks and works well giving extra recording frames.

Would you be so kind as to take the current setup with pre-buffer and join the two modules so that you only have one like bolt_raw maybe call it bolt_buff.mo this way I can have the standard raw_rec.mo and the raw_bolt.mo (for single capture) and the raw_buff.mo all in the same card without any problems.  As you know bolts come and go and sometimes there is no time or a computer where you can switch binaries or modules to capture the bolts.

Thanks for your effort.  This is really a nice module, eventually many people would want to use it after they master the raw capabilities.  But I think it is important to get it into a usable for many cameras.

I will be testing this on the 7D now.
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g3gg0

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #155 on: October 20, 2013, 02:59:28 PM »
as soon mlv_rec gets settled, i will extend it to non-random, ring-buffering as option.
this makes bolt_rec more usable maybe
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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #156 on: October 20, 2013, 03:26:21 PM »
Yes, thanks for looking after this issue.

To summarize my findings are as follows:

Current version of bolt_rec.mo loads on 5D3 and 7D but recording does not get triggered by flash or bolt, it just starts recording as soon as record button is pressed.

Current modules(raw_rec + bolt_rec)  provided by mk11174 here:
https://bitbucket.org/mk11174/magic-lantern/downloads/raw_rec_bolt_rec_prebuffer.zip
Load on 5D3 and 7D (ML) and 7D(TragicL) and work as described in 5D3 test.  7D(ML) does not have fps override therefore most frames are not usable.  7D(TL) works and get few bad frames.
Module worked better under Absolute Trigger enable and Relative disabled.

Current merged module bolt_raw provided by mk11174 here:
https://bitbucket.org/mk11174/magic-lantern/downloads/bolt_raw.mo
Load on 5D3 and 7D(ML) and 7D(TL) and work as tested on 5D3.  Again 7D has more split frames even with fps override on TL.

All of my test have been done by swinging the camera to a bright lamp and some test with flash.

I have not tested Timelapse function of bolt_raw module and still waiting for bolts..

UPDATE: Just noticed that 7D does not change the shutter speed to near 1/15 to prevent the split frames so this is why the 7D get many more split frames...  The 5D3 will drop the shutter speed to 1/16 when the bolt modules are enabled and provide much cleaner frames.

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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #157 on: October 20, 2013, 04:37:30 PM »
Opening Post has been updated to provide instructions and the latest code available.

I have only written this guide, all the hard work by g3g00 and mk1174!

I still have not take a single frame of a bolt!!
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #158 on: October 20, 2013, 07:05:21 PM »
Opening Post has been updated to provide instructions and the latest code available.

I have only written this guide, all the hard work by g3g00 and mk1174!

I still have not take a single frame of a bolt!!
Thanks for all the professional testing and updates. Sounds like there is a future for the old bolt_rec and the new raw_rec or maybe mlv_rec whatever version g3g00 uses!

I will have to add my personal features to that version when it is updated though cause after shooting storms myself I gradually had ideas that could be of use and added them little by little to make it quicker and better for me to set up.

My favorite feature I added was Autoexposure option, not sure if it works on any other camera though, but works perfect on the 550D, this allows me to walk away and control my video cameras while the autoexposure feature adjusts the trigger line right above the graph by controlling the aperture value and I made it slow so it does not re adjust when a flash happens, only when the sky changes gradually during a storm. Without this feature you have to watch the trigger line the whole time, if you want a bolt captured your goal is to keep that trigger line right above the graph to catch even the weakest bolts and since you have to do this, you will have to keep adjusting the aperture manually to keep the graph under the trigger line. The only thing you have to remember, is I set it to react slow, so when you first set your cam up at the sky you have to give the feature a chance to settle the graph under the trigger line, once it does, then you can start recording.

If the sky has a dark cloud layer and a medium grey layer it is best to use 1 scan line because the module will see the dark clouds and will adjust brighter which is bad cause then sky will get over exposed, that is why I added ability to see scan lines so you know what the detection lines are aimed at, if you have a nice even gradient sky, and it fills your view then you can use all scan lines with no issues.

The way I have it set up now allows me to turn it on and walk away and when I come back I have many bolts to enjoy without even touching the cam. So when used correctly which will take practice in my experience, it works really well.

All these features are a must for me and hopefully I will be able to add them to the updated version when it comes out.

The timelapse is a neat feature I added to it, but not always used, I only use it when I get really cool textured skies that I know will be worth a timelapse, it just saves a frame by itself while it captures bolts, it basically just sets off a false detection every so many seconds. Post gets harder because you have to manually separate the timelapse captures from the bolt captures so you don't get uneven motioned timelapses.

Well, thanks again for your tests and posts, maybe more people will see the posts and make use of the good old bolt trigger!
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #159 on: October 20, 2013, 08:01:08 PM »
Here are renamed versions of bolt_rec and the raw_rec that works with it with the pre buffer option, I renamed them internally as well so you can load them along with the current Raw Video and Bolt_Raw without the pre buffer.

Just don't turn 2 Raw Videos on at same time or cam will explode, LOL! But seriously, just only actually have one on at a time as needed.

This will keep you from having to switch cards with differ versions. You can copy them all to the modules folder and all work with latest builds as of 10/20/2013

Raw Video
https://bitbucket.org/mk11174/magic-lantern/downloads/buf_raw.mo

Bolt Trigger
https://bitbucket.org/mk11174/magic-lantern/downloads/buf_bolt.mo
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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #160 on: October 20, 2013, 08:23:37 PM »
excellent.  can they be renamed buf_rec.mo and buf_bolt.mo  in this way both are next to each other and easy to select in camera.
I tried just renaming but got noinfo error
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #161 on: October 20, 2013, 08:49:35 PM »
excellent.  can they be renamed buf_rec.mo and buf_bolt.mo  in this way both are next to each other and easy to select in camera.
I tried just renaming but got noinfo error
no, they have to be renamed then recompiled. But in the camera Movie menu I named there menus so that it is easy to know which is which. But I can rename the actual modile and recompile them if you really think its needed, I didnt think it mattered since you only see them once in the module loader.
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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #162 on: October 20, 2013, 09:06:32 PM »
Yes please so I dont have to search for one here and the other over there (in the module loading menu).  If both start with buf then in the module loader both are next to each other and easy to find.
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #163 on: October 20, 2013, 09:50:33 PM »
Yes please so I dont have to search for one here and the other over there (in the module loading menu).  If both start with buf then in the module loader both are next to each other and easy to find.
Ok, updated links above.
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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #164 on: October 20, 2013, 10:07:31 PM »
Great, it is nice.  I dont fully understand the reason why the shutter and fps settings are so critical but the 5D3 works really good.  The 7D does not allow me to lower the shutter so I dont get many good frames, I suppose this needs special programming in the binaries.
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #165 on: October 20, 2013, 11:00:41 PM »
Great, it is nice.  I dont fully understand the reason why the shutter and fps settings are so critical but the 5D3 works really good.  The 7D does not allow me to lower the shutter so I dont get many good frames, I suppose this needs special programming in the binaries.
it is the only way to slow the shutter enough so we dont get split frames, with them slowed down to 14.985 on fps it allows for a 359 and on some cams 360 degree shutter which keeps the scan at bay longer for us to capture bolts with no splits, any faster on the shutter means more time for the scanline to be visible and split the bolts but any longer then the exposure is to long and bolts are not very bright against the sky. FPS is crucial because its the only way to allow shutter speed to get to 359 and 360 degrees.

And yeah, most likely the 7D lowest shutter setting must be differ then the others, can you manually set your shutter to 359 or 360 depending on PAL or NTSC I think is where its differ, and while in Movie mode with exposure override turned on. Then shut cam off and check your Magic.cfg file and tell me what the number is for bv.TV, maybe do on the 5D3 to just so I know, I only had the 550D, 600D, and my freinds 5D2 to get tests from to program the bv.TV for it.

Update, I am pretty sure I misunderstood your 7D info, I guess you meant, manually you cant set your shutter to the correct setting whether you have bolt trigger or not, sorry, LOL!

Does the 7D allow exposure override? This is the only way it seems I can get 359 shutter on my cams, I am in USA so it is NTSC so I can only get 359 degrees, I always wondered if I could get 360 but no matter what setting I did in fps I could only get 359 in movie mode, I guess thats the same as 360 to where it don't matter, but I always wondered if it would even help more with splits if I did get it to 360 exactly.
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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #166 on: October 20, 2013, 11:22:26 PM »
7D has Exposure Override but it is not allowing to go below 1/30 in Video Mode.  To be exact  I can only get 1/28.7 (188deg) or 1/31.3(172deg)
This probably means that 7D needs a fix to Exposure Override.
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #167 on: October 21, 2013, 12:20:18 AM »
7D has Exposure Override but it is not allowing to go below 1/30 in Video Mode.  To be exact  I can only get 1/28.7 (188deg) or 1/31.3(172deg)
This probably means that 7D needs a fix to Exposure Override.
Does it Allow FPS feature, the only way we can get to 1/15 shutter is by using FPS at 14.985 and then go to adjust the Shutter by ML menu?
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RenatoPhoto

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #168 on: October 21, 2013, 12:37:21 AM »
Yes with Tragic Lantern we have fps override.
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mk11174

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #169 on: October 21, 2013, 01:10:51 AM »
Yes with Tragic Lantern we have fps override.
Ah, I thought all the cam with ML had FPS, interesting, that is what makes developing so hard for the devs since they don't have access to every camera, sux Canon don't make things easier, LOL! You would think they would, because ML probably helps there cams sell more. Well, if you use TL and then use FPS to get it to 14.985 does it allow a slower shutter? Its very imporortant to lower the FPS first so you can go with lower shutter speed.
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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #170 on: October 21, 2013, 01:38:19 AM »
Well, if you use TL and then use FPS to get it to 14.985 does it allow a slower shutter? Its very imporortant to lower the FPS first so you can go with lower shutter speed.
That is the problem!  It does not.. Will ask for  fix.
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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #171 on: October 22, 2013, 05:24:49 PM »
Found a bug in the buf_rec module (i.e. the bolt-rec.mo).  I have been simulating multiple strikes and if you set the Post-bolt frame count above 10 then after the second or third strike the module will continue to record and will not stop recording after a strike.  So if you set it, like I was suggesting to something like 50 frames (to prevent frame skipping), you will get the first strike correctly and on the second strike the recording will not stop.
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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #172 on: October 28, 2013, 03:50:59 AM »
Found a bug in the buf_rec module (i.e. the bolt-rec.mo).  I have been simulating multiple strikes and if you set the Post-bolt frame count above 10 then after the second or third strike the module will continue to record and will not stop recording after a strike.  So if you set it, like I was suggesting to something like 50 frames (to prevent frame skipping), you will get the first strike correctly and on the second strike the recording will not stop.
Yeah, that is the bug I reported back when it was made but it was found that it was not a bug, that it had to do with the 550D buffer memory only have 2 buffers, I am suprised you get the same results on the 5D3 though, but yeah, this was already reported at least.

None of these bugs will matter when the new version is updated to work with the latest Raw_Rec. This was another issue what made me create bolt_raw, I don't have this issue with bolt_raw at all, it works flawless on bolts and it does not need post frames to record because it captures every flash during the sequence. With bolt_raw, I really don't need an update of the bolt trigger, I really have great success with the way it is and with my modifications, I couldn't be more pleased.

With our rolling shutter I really don't see any point of trying to capture video because it will just get ruined 50% of the time, so its best just to try for stills of each flash and not a whole video sequence.
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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #173 on: May 07, 2014, 04:46:30 PM »
mk, apparently you have a 500D, can you tell if this module works fine on it ?

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Re: Bolt trigger module test results (bolt_rec.mo)
« Reply #174 on: May 07, 2014, 08:39:58 PM »
mk, apparently you have a 500D, can you tell if this module works fine on it ?
This module is no good for the 500D, it's hardware is slower and the scanline never becomes full so bolts will always be cut by scanline, plus live view gets very glitchy when it is used anyway. So far the only cam I have that it don't work on.
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