Stupid question: RAW and HDMI

Started by Simone1971, June 08, 2013, 02:49:18 PM

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Simone1971

Shooting sequences in raw in fantastic, but is in your mind to allow recording of raw signal through hdmi to an external recorder?

jeffmurray62

On 5D3 & 5D3 you have Uncompressed HDMI Output Support - however you will need a raw recorder like the Sony AXS-R5 - $5350 or the Convergent Design Odyssey7q (10 bit Canon raw)  for $2295.

I have a Atomos Ninja2 and it captures raw captures 4.2.2 Prores (uncompressed) @ 274mb/s  but the colour depth is 10 bit not 14 like the ML raw.

Although - I just found this so maybe not - there is sharpening and other treatments being applied to the HDMI signal - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5458.0

Although A1ex indicated in the feature requests not possible threat that it maybe possible depending on the Digic Processor Investigations thread, so we'll have to wait and see.


Midphase

The guys who created Magic Lantern are a group of extremely brilliant individuals, and it always seems like when someone posts some "duh" question like this, they're not giving them an ounce of credit for already having thought up the idea...in this case many months ago.

This has been thoroughly explored, discussed, and tried...the result is that it's simply not possible with the current knowledge of the chips inside the 5D due to the CPU simply not being fast enough to process the data and convert it for HDMI (which doesn't allow raw data to be simply passed through).

jasonp

Well said Midphase :)

Btw @Jeffmurray62, you are not capturing raw with the atomos ninja, you're recording 8bit 4:2:2 in a 10bit prores file, if you haven't noticed the difference in post processing raw vs prores, then you probably haven't tried raw yet, which is 14bit as you said ;)

reddeercity

Quote from: jasonp on September 16, 2013, 06:23:26 PM
Well said Midphase :)

Btw @Jeffmurray62, you are not capturing raw with the atomos ninja, you're recording 8bit 4:2:2 in a 10bit prores file, if you haven't noticed the difference in post processing raw vs prores, then you probably haven't tried raw yet, which is 14bit as you said ;)
So whats wrong with Capturing the 1080i 29.97 YCbCr 8Bit ?
I have my zacuto evf from 5d2 pass-though to atomos ninja hdmi recorder, not overlays
to prores 10bit 422HQ. Then do a reverse telecine to 23.98p there you have your Backup!
If you did not know there is a 24p stream embedded in the 60i Stream  ;)
link to a video i did about the HDMI capture while recording raw at the same Time.
 
This kind of workflow is needed if you want to use your camera on a professionally Set.
you can review your shots, or have daily's on a feature plus connect to a video Village with hdmi to sdi converter.
It's not raw but its still a Great image to work with if raw Fails.

eatstoomuchjam

Quote from: jeffmurray62 on September 16, 2013, 06:11:53 AM
On 5D3 & 5D3 you have Uncompressed HDMI Output Support - however you will need a raw recorder like the Sony AXS-R5 - $5350 or the Convergent Design Odyssey7q (10 bit Canon raw)  for $2295.

Or the Black Magic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 at less than $400.
http://www.amazon.com/Blackmagic-Design-HyperDeck-Shuttle-Recorder/dp/B00701AN5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379862428&sr=8-1&keywords=hyperdeck+shuttle+2

Though the signal coming from HDMI is still 8-bit.  Raw, in this case, doesn't buy you much.

gpx4

Can the Atomos Ninja2 be used on the 5D Mark III using Magic Lantern RAW recording on the camera's CF card and record 8 bit prores HD via HDMI on the Ninja2 so you we can have playback of the recording?

Hoping you can give us feedback on this. :)



Quote from: reddeercity on September 21, 2013, 10:54:52 PM
So whats wrong with Capturing the 1080i 29.97 YCbCr 8Bit ?
I have my zacuto evf from 5d2 pass-though to atomos ninja hdmi recorder, not overlays
to prores 10bit 422HQ. Then do a reverse telecine to 23.98p there you have your Backup!
If you did not know there is a 24p stream embedded in the 60i Stream  ;)
link to a video i did about the HDMI capture while recording raw at the same Time.
 
This kind of workflow is needed if you want to use your camera on a professionally Set.
you can review your shots, or have daily's on a feature plus connect to a video Village with hdmi to sdi converter.
It's not raw but its still a Great image to work with if raw Fails.

Midphase

Quote from: gpx4 on November 20, 2013, 03:36:23 AM
Can the Atomos Ninja2 be used on the 5D Mark III using Magic Lantern RAW recording on the camera's CF card and record 8 bit prores HD via HDMI on the Ninja2 so you we can have playback of the recording?

Hoping you can give us feedback on this. :)

Yes, you can do that no problem....although you're spending $3k on a 5D3 and another $1k on an Atomos Ninja...you might consider just waiting a couple of months and shooting on the Blackmagic 4K camera which is due out any moment now.

chmee

bm just built a hdmi-fieldrecorder as well, for way less than 1k. HyperDeck Shuttle for ~350Eur/$. answering the main question, no, its not possible to record data with more than 8bit depth via hdmi, regardless of the possibilities of the recorder.

regards chmee
[size=2]phreekz * blog * twitter[/size]

reddeercity

At my local Camera/Video Rental Store (Vistek Calgary AB.)
There had a Ninja hdmi recorder First Generation rental.
They were selling for $300.00 (canadian dollars).
So I pick it up, if you are looking for a low cost recorder check out your
Local Camera rental store they may be selling off there rentals.
I use it as a field monitor & backup recorder on paid jobs.
The 8bit image is very nice, and with audio from the recorder
I can easily sync the audio to raw.
  :)

gpx4

Thank you for your replies.

The Ninja2 and/or Odyssey7 (OLED) even with the high cost would serve it's purpose as a on-camera external field monitor on many video cameras.  :)

bishaway

I will be hiring the Ninja 2 but haven't used it before with RAW and was wondering when doing Raw recording, does it sync when you press record on the 5D mk3 like on the new 1.2.1 firmware or do you have to manually press record on the ninja?

B-rad

Yeah I'm wondering the same. If the Ninja 2 is triggered to record by the camera it would be a huge help reviewing raw files and for recording synced sound, has anybody tried this??