Author Topic: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage  (Read 17708 times)

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Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« on: June 07, 2013, 11:17:55 PM »

Stock h264 video vs raw upscaled. There's definitely some aliasing in the raw upscaled but the results were much closer than I expected. Seems to me that ACR Process 2003 upscales better.

Exposure changed in 3x zoom mode for some reason, but I wanted to leave the stock videos untouched.
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Viente

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 11:44:42 PM »
Could you please upload original file somewhere?

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 11:52:09 PM »
Yeah I'll try to post them tomorrow
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vmsguy

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 12:18:50 AM »
I was playing around today with seeing the difference in dynamic range between h.264@1920x1080 and RAW@768x432.

It is definitly easier to tweak the image with the RAW source compared to the h.264 source.

I need a faster SD card, and more play time!
Brent


AriLG

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 12:47:22 AM »
Stock h264 video vs raw upscaled. There's definitely some aliasing in the raw upscaled but the results were much closer than I expected. Seems to me that ACR Process 2003 upscales better.

Exposure changed in 3x zoom mode for some reason, but I wanted to leave the stock videos untouched.
Your videos at 300% :

H264



RAW (scaled)




I'm afraid he's right.

On my own tests (I scale in AE, through Cineform's codec)... it SEEMS OK'ish.... but I'm still not sure.

Color is there. no way around it. RAW smashes H264 (I checked with my KODAK color chart).

But we have to make a compromise with resolution (I can record 1024x432 continuous)... and noise (which is being magnified. try shooting an extreme DR scene like a bed lamp in a dark room and then pointing the cam at an open window on a sunny day. see what happens... you'll have to resort to apps like neat video and it is one more tier of processing).

I'm still experimenting...
T3i (main), T2i
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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 12:56:51 AM »
Don't forget, you're also scaling youtube-compressed footage. I'll upload the originals tonight hopefully
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vicnaum

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2013, 08:24:45 AM »
What does 3x zoom mode give to h264 and what's the difference? (I can't see it)

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2013, 09:18:52 AM »
1:1 sensor crop. No line skipping. Noisier at high iso's though.
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AriLG

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2013, 09:45:43 AM »
Don't forget, you're also scaling youtube-compressed footage. I'll upload the originals tonight hopefully
OK.

BTW, how do you (read: anyone) upscale in ACR ? 1% said it's the best method.... I want to check it against my clips.
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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2013, 09:53:01 PM »
Highlight the whole frame with the crop tool, right click, custom, and type in desired resolution. Profit.
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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2013, 05:09:04 AM »
Here's the original footage, including the two stock .movs, the .raw file and the ProRes 444 I rendered from After Effects

https://mega.co.nz/#!zBIXSCBL!KEHtDiHaREfteelZ_1udjk2UZB5WeFfZmfFCDv0Noks
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AriLG

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2013, 11:34:01 PM »
Well... umm... I have DL the files... and, well, they look exactly the same  :(

Stock footage ran with WMP and ProRes with QuickTime. sorry man... still jagged edges. maybe more examples ?

As for myself, I've still yet to shoot RAW outside, only domestic...with ISO 400/640, testing color/DR/noise. as I was saying, DR is a smasher, color is OK  and resolution... well, I'll go to the beach and shoot sunset RAW and Stock... I'll inter-cut them (lets see IF they inter-cut) and hopefully I'll be a little wiser.  :)
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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 12:00:32 AM »
Hmm I guess Youtube compression has gotten better  ;D

But yeah the aliasing won't come out unless you run it through a specialized resizing plugin like PhotoZoom, Blow Up, etc. I'm also going to experiment with different shutter speeds and apertures.

DR AND color are so much better though. Try some skin tone tests. It gives people that healthy glow, unlike soul-sucking h264.
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AriLG

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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2013, 01:28:46 AM »
But yeah the aliasing won't come out unless you run it through a specialized resizing plugin like PhotoZoom, Blow Up, etc.
I'm not talking about aliasing, friend  :)

Just plain blowout artifacts.

AND color are so much better though. Try some skin tone tests. It gives people that healthy glow, unlike soul-sucking h264.
Wow, we have gone a l-i-t-t-l-e too far, haven't we ?...  ;D

H264 is far from ideal, but it is also not "soul-sucking". it was good enough for "24"  ;)

RAW is far more flexible but workflow is still not there (ie. easy copy-ingest-edit). also, there seem to be a clear distinction between 5DmkIII and lesser cameras as far as final result is concerned. but I believe that we will reach some kind of equilibrium.... sooner or later...
T3i (main), T2i
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Re: Canon 600D 1080p h264 vs Upscaled ML 14 bit Raw footage
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2013, 02:06:19 AM »
LOL yeah I like to exaggerate. I've got some outstanding results from the 600D with h264 maxed out, 3x zoom, great pic styles, but there was always something missing. I'll be upgrading to a mkiii soon of course, but the 600D will still have its place. Just like how TWD passed up on RED cameras to shoot on an Arri 16mm and Canon zoom.

But here's the big picture: I can shoot an entire commercial, promo video, music video, etc. on a 64 GB card with RAW video on a $500 camera, have the extra information to edit the clips adequately in post, and upscale it to 720p, which is completely fine for most uses.

 ;D





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