Author Topic: [DONE] Maintaining FPS and 180 degree shutter when switching to 1:1 Crop Mode  (Read 10221 times)

platu

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I have been using 1:1 crop mode extensively and it works great.  But when switching back and forth between crop mode and regular mode, I would like to be able to maintain my fps at 23.976 and shutter to more or less (180 degree).... but especially fps.   In practice, it is very cumbersome to switch back and forth if you use crop mode a lot.  FPS override does not maintain my fps when switching modes, and the shutter value always changes as well.   Being able to punch in 3x is an amazing feature, but the constant trips to the menu to adjust everything to maintain my frame rate and shutter is leading to mistakes.  So when I shot 100 clips yesterday, I ended up with a handful of clips where the fps were 20.xxx or 24.xxx.  This would be a very helpful addition.  Thank you for listening.

P.S.  I posted something similar in the following thread but realized it would be better placed here for consideration.  http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5413.msg43437#msg43437

RenatoPhoto

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I am not sure how to control the shutter or why it switches when going from std to crop.  I can minimize the change by going into Expo menu, scrolling to Exp. Override ON,  then scroll to shutter and set it.  If you are in video mode it will show the angle i.e. to the right of the shutter value.

For FPS.

Set the Canon video to 1920 30 fps

The fps i set with FPS Override to:
Desired FPS to 24
Optimize for Exact FPS

then go to the advanced tab

Timer A and/or B adjust to match FPS=29.976

Now when you switch between 5X and normal mode I dont have any changes if FPS.

also more info here:
How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0

Specially check the latest post on how to record on the center of the lens!
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platu

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I am not sure how to control the shutter or why it switches when going from std to crop.

The fps i set with FPS Override to:
Desired FPS to 24
Optimize for Exact FPS

then go to the advanced tab

Timer A and/or B adjust to match FPS=29.976

Now when you switch between 5X and normal mode I dont have any changes if FPS.

also more info here:
How to record: -- RAW Digital Cropped Video on 5D3 --
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0

Specially check the latest post on how to record on the center of the lens!

I've been following your posts there, thank you for doing that. :)  The new force left, close to center crop is great.  That's what I'm doing now (5 to the right, 3 up) as it's the most practical use by far for crop mode imo.  Regarding the FPS override settings, did you mean to say 24 fps  instead of 29.976 fps?

When I set FPS override to exactly 24.000 when in crop mode, it switches to 24.006 when in normal mode.  Alex has already written that 24.000 is currently not possible on the 5d3 in normal mode.  Apparently 24.000 works on some other models but for some reason not the 5d3.  I prefer 23.976 anyway to be able to stay consistent when mixing footage from other cameras which typically are shot using 23.976.

If you set fps override to 23.976 when in normal mode, switching to crop mode switches the fps to either 20.848 or 24.003 (depending on it's mood that moment).  Now there may be a combination of fps override settings that I have not hit upon yet via my own testing which maintains 23.976, so if anyone can figure that out please let me know.

The following is the only way I have been able to maintain 23.976 when switching crop modes...

1.  When in normal mode, do not use the override feature so it defaults to 23.976 (shutter at 1/47)
2.  When switching to crop mode...
      - turn on fps override
      - set desired fps to 24
      - set timer A to 500
      - set timer B to 2002
      - actual fps now shows 23.976
      - change shutter to 1/49
3.  When switching back to normal (non-crop) mode....
      - turn OFF fps override (otherwise, fps will automatically change to 23.980)
      - change shutter to 1/47 (since it has changed to 1/78 for some reason)
4.  Now shoot.
5.  Rinse and repeat every time you switch modes.

Another oddity is when you do have fps override set properly to 23.976 when in crop mode, if you toggle back to normal then crop mode, it sometime switches to 21.080.  Toggling to normal then crop again, will switch it back to 23.976 however.

As you can see, punching in and out requires a constant awareness of the above steps and oddities to maintain consistent settings.  I've shot for 2 complete days with approx 100 clips each day, and although I know how to do the above steps to maintain my fps and shutter, each day I always ended up with a number of clips where off, the worst being when I end up with 21.xxx fps.  I do realize that Alex implemented fps override to solve different problems, so I'm not surprised about the behavior...  thus my feature request.  ;)

a1ex

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Can't reproduce the 20.848, here it switches between 23.976 (5x) and 23.977 (1x), with Renato's settings.

RenatoPhoto

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Regarding the FPS override settings, did you mean to say 24 fps  instead of 29.976 fps?

Set the Canon video to 1920 30 fps.  You can do this when you are in video mode in canon menu.

For some reason this allows better fix the FPS override = 24 so that when you switch from zoom to normal you get no variation in fps.
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platu

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Can't reproduce the 20.848, here it switches between 23.976 (5x) and 23.977 (1x), with Renato's settings.

I just tried for while and it happens most often (but not always if I click quickly through 1x, 5x, 10x.. it sometimes ends up at 20.848.  When it does end up at 20.848, the shutter becomes 1/56, rather than the typical 20.003 and 1/37.   Also, when it happens, the screen seems to struggle to switch modes and displays pink static like noise trying to switch, and ends up at 20.848 everytime that happens.  I can take a video of this if it helps.

I'll try Renato's settings now.  Being off by .001 would certainly be an improvement.

platu

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Set the Canon video to 1920 30 fps.  You can do this when you are in video mode in canon menu.

For some reason this allows better fix the FPS override = 24 so that when you switch from zoom to normal you get no variation in fps.

Just tried your method to maintain FPS and it's definitely an improvement, the fps switches between 23.976 and 23.977 as Alex noted above.  Does it remain constant for you?

RenatoPhoto

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No, 23.976 to 23.977
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platu

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No, 23.976 to 23.977

I just discovered that switching to Canon 1920 30fps as you described seems allow for exact 24.000 fps via override.   And it does seem to maintain this exact fps when toggling crop modes.  What's more, if you set exposure override and set shutter to 149.3 (1x mode), the shutter will stay close to 180 shutter when switching to 5x mode (147.3).

So to summarize, using the above method, it turns out that it is possible to maintain fps and close to 180 degree shutter for exactly 24.000 fps.  If you need 23.976, it will alternate between 23.976 and 23.977 at least for now unless another solution is discovered.  You may wish to update your thread on this as I think many might benefit.  Thank you Renato and Alex for you help.

a1ex

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For 23.976 it needs an exact FPS preset. Or maybe a fine-tuning option for the FPS.

About hitting the zoom buttons quickly... this is tricky, ML and Canon code get in a race condition that I don't know how to solve. ML is trying to detect passively when Canon code is not changing video mode, but it's impossible to detect what you are going to press in the middle of FPS changing.

platu

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For 23.976 it needs an exact FPS preset. Or maybe a fine-tuning option for the FPS.

About hitting the zoom buttons quickly... this is tricky, ML and Canon code get in a race condition that I don't know how to solve. ML is trying to detect passively when Canon code is not changing video mode, but it's impossible to detect what you are going to press in the middle of FPS changing.

Understood.  Will be mindful about quick button presses from now on.  Regarding 23.976, would be nice to lock it down but will use 24.000 for now.  Thanks.

a1ex

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platu

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Reproduced the issue and solved. Also added 23.976 as preset.

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/69af0a2d23e6
https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/815173794142

That's awesome. :D. So now we can just set it and forget about it.

FYI. The new preset in LV Focus Box Snap doesn't work when raw preview is set to Canon LV.  Also, I'm not sure if your newest commits today related to the focus box and crop marks have considered Canon LV preview since I haven't had the chance to test that yet.

At this stage of development, greyscale preview, while clearly improving, is still only practical under limited controlled conditions where maintaining focus is not a major concern.  For crop mode, I have found regular Canon preview, even with its framing limitations, to be necessary in practice.   I'm moving the focus box 5 right, 3 up as Renato had mentioned... this method will likely be used the most imo.


a1ex

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Huh? the preset is exactly for Canon preview. Just zoom and click the joystick.

platu

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Huh? the preset is exactly for Canon preview. Just zoom and click the joystick.

I am basing the following on the yesterday's commit... https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/9ccae1db2b9a29dae4d52362382956d18b393470.  Didn't yet try the new commits you added today.


When setting snap points to "Center to x5 RAW"...

The snap points only work for the setting... Framing "Center".   When using Framing "Left", the focus box needs to be moved 5 right, 3 up.

Also, if you manually move or accidentally bump the joystick with snap points set, snap points ceases to function.
EDIT: This only happens when Focus Box settings "Speed = Normal".  When set to "Fast", manually moving the joystick does not cause any problems.


a1ex

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When using frame left, go in 5x mode and click on joystick again. In 1x it just goes to the last position, in 5x it recalibrates itself.

platu

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When using frame left, go in 5x mode and click on joystick again. In 1x it just goes to the last position, in 5x it recalibrates itself.

I understand how it works now.   Is there any reason not to make the snap point move just 5 right, 3 up?  I ask because this would prevent the majority of the lens distortion one would experience using the current snap point (especially on wider angle lenses).

The difference in distortion is quite significant.   I created a short test below to illustrate (simple up/down panning on a tripod)...





a1ex

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The position is computed on the fly; you may want to use the left position or the right one or whatever. It's also hopefully portable, because it's not hardcoded.

If I would hardcode it, I don't see anyone fine-tuning these offsets for every single camera supported by ML.

When the box is perfectly centered, Canon chooses the left half of the sensor. Move 2 clicks to the right, zoom in, center, and you get the right half.

platu

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The position is computed on the fly; you may want to use the left position or the right one or whatever. It's also hopefully portable, because it's not hardcoded.

If I would hardcode it, I don't see anyone fine-tuning these offsets for every single camera supported by ML.

When the box is perfectly centered, Canon chooses the left half of the sensor. Move 2 clicks to the right, zoom in, center, and you get the right half.

I get it... thanks.