Author Topic: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder  (Read 12252 times)

AdamTheBoy

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Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« on: May 25, 2013, 08:17:05 PM »
An idea struck me because I read that you cannot review what you've shot in raw (Makes sense as it's not a video, just raw stills).  I own a  Ninja 2 and for a while I figured that it may be redundant if you are recording raw but then I thought you could use the Ninja to monitor while you shoot raw and also record the HDMI signal so that you can playback what you got in raw.  I know the quality of the HDMI out would not be close to the quality of the raw footage but if you were recording a performance you could at least playback what you shot to see if it was a good take.  Another thing, the ninja 2 has an audio input which you could then use the Ninja footage + audio to sync audio to the raw footage.

tl;dr

When shooting raw you can use the Ninja recorder to
*Monitor what you shoot
*Playback different takes
*Record Audio
*Back up in case the RAW video has problems

Sorry, it just dawned on me the current build doesn't work with the clean HDMI firmware, does it?  Still, if it does eventually work does this accurate or is there a problem I didn't think of?

Sorry about my grammar, I'm really tired. 

hirethestache

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 08:22:31 PM »
Seeing as Canons 1.2.1 firmware update is just that, a firmware update, I don't see it unrealistic that the magic lantern team could figure out a way to replicate the clean HDMI output on 1.1.3. I've been using my ninja2 on the 5D3 for sometime now, and think it's an excellent "liveview" monitor. It also works well with the five D2, as long as you have no GUI overlays.
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C100, 5D3, 5D2, 6D

martinsolarte

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 05:49:21 PM »
Just Curious did you finally tested using the ninja and raw recording at the same time?

Midphase

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 12:07:09 AM »
Seeing as Canons 1.2.1 firmware update is just that, a firmware update, I don't see it unrealistic that the magic lantern team could figure out a way to replicate the clean HDMI output on 1.1.3. I've been using my ninja2 on the 5D3 for sometime now, and think it's an excellent "liveview" monitor. It also works well with the five D2, as long as you have no GUI overlays.

Has there been any attempt to try to port ML to 1.2.1?

I'm not really sure if the devs have decided to focus on what they know works (i.e. 1.1.3) or if 1.2.1 has been definitely ruled out as an option?

Anyone with some inside knowledge care to chime in?

coutts

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 05:38:06 AM »
stubs are done, needs consts checked and probably lots of other little things updated.


some notes from when I found these couple months ago:
Quote

5D3 v1.2.1 change notes:
- Much code added: about 60kb worth (~15,000 lines of ASM).
- Some added very early in ROM, early enough to cause shift in cstart's location (I don't recall that ever happening in new firmware updates from other cameras).
- InitializeBitmapDisplayDevice has changed drastically, quite a bit of code missing (24 lines of ASM removed).
- Every stub changed.

http://pastebin.com/sMjiN7Ei

oete

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2013, 11:52:00 PM »
this is a really good and smart idea.

"When shooting raw you can use the Ninja recorder to
*Monitor what you shoot
*Playback different takes
*Record Audio
*Back up in case the RAW video has problems"

for all the reasons you list. the clean HDMI out and mirroring LCD/Monitor of the new Firmware 1.2.1 is really making me want the RAW capability to be ported to 1.2.1.

Neel

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2013, 10:29:38 PM »
Sorry to ask again, if this has maybe asked before, but can we now record the HDMI video signal in the Ninja while RAW recording to the CF card?  I am recording audio externaly anyway, so I could feed the Ninja with an external audio signal. So the Ninja would record video from the 5D's HDMI port and audio from the mixer which could by synced on the timeline like Adam has described it above.

Erik Caretta

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2013, 12:23:49 PM »
As far as I know, for a clean HDMI output from a 5Dm3 you need Canon firmware 1.2.1, but Magic Lantern only run on Canon firmware 1.1.3.

Anyway, we tested this exact setup last week during a 5-day shooting: 5Dm3 (canon firmware 1.1.3) with Magic Lantern + Atomos Ninja 2.
We needed the Atomos only for fast playback during shooting, and actually it was working pretty well, but we had a problem that finally led us to not using it at all: it seems that connecting anything to the HDMI output of the camera causes random Err 80 crashes on our camera. We could not understand the cause, maybe FPS override, I don't know, but we experienced several camera crashes while using HDMI output, with both a monitor or the Atomos, so finally we decided to proceed without HDMI output when possible.

It would be nice to know if anybody is experiencing problems due to HDMI output.

reddeercity

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2013, 03:56:39 AM »
It would be nice to know if anybody is experiencing problems due to HDMI output.
I don't have a 5d3 but a 5d2 and on my last job with my Ninja connected i had (error 70)
Then lockup, pull battery reboot then record my footage.
happen 8 times in a row when i stop recording each interview ,  3 to 5 minute long .
But only on my 32GB cards not my 64GB cards, i guess because there are faster.
Had No corruption, all good in the end :)

Erik Caretta

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2013, 07:34:42 PM »
I don't have a 5d3 but a 5d2 and on my last job with my Ninja connected i had (error 70)
Then lockup, pull battery reboot then record my footage.
happen 8 times in a row when i stop recording each interview ,  3 to 5 minute long .
But only on my 32GB cards not my 64GB cards, i guess because there are faster.
Had No corruption, all good in the end :)

yes, the same problem (probably I remember the wrong Err number), with 2 different 64GB cards. I'm not sure it's a problem due to card speed, since both our cards are pretty fast (120 and 94 MB/s writing speed with buffer=16384k)

ptaylor999

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Re: Shooting raw in conjunction with an Atomos Ninja recorder
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 09:07:01 PM »
Hi everyone.

So I've scoured this site, and others, for possible solutions to the problem of not being able to playback raw video on the 5D3, and am wondering if this idea I have might possibly be a decent workaround.

I realize that the current raw capabilities on ML are based on Canon firmware version 1.1.3, which does not have clean HDMI out. So this precludes any external monitoring, or playback.

BUT, would it be possible to hook up an Atomos Ninja 2 to the RCA port on the 5D3 via an adapter cable (HDMI to RCA) and record to the Ninja that way? I realize that the quality would suffer, and so doing things like using the Ninja for focusing might be problematic, but I'm really only looking for the ability to playback the current shot to check for issues like framing and performance, so i can move on to the next shot with some level of confidence.

I have never used a Ninja before, and thus have no idea if this is even possible. Which is why I'm asking you.

Some of my concerns are:
- would I lose LiveView when connecting an RCA jack for output?
- would this affect write speed?
- Is this even possible at all?

Any comments, advice, other solutions, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all.


-- Pat Taylor